What's new

How CNN distorted the truth. You can tell from this famous "tank man" video

Socialist Party now and Socialist Party back in 1930 is different, I am not sure if you aware of that.

Hitler draw a lot of idea form Karl Marx, hence it name its party "National Socialist"

In fact, Hitler hated Communism so much, he made a non-aggression pack with Soviet Union. No, he did not make it with Britain, he did not make it with France or United States.

Get your history right, Hitler hate Jew, and before Israel is a state, the most Jewish Population is in Russia. You can actually argue Hitler Hate everyone but blonde German, which he himself is not.
You can claim Hitler loved communism and he was a communist, I suggest you do some readings about how he interracted with German communist party, he drew many ideas from past philosophers and you can't claim those philosophers were all communists. You are actually the first person I met calling Hitler a communist.

Go back to my first answer.

October revolution.

And do you even know how much Religion influence on French Revolution? And how big Religion is in Europe at that time?
You asked me to name some grassroots revolution not incited by communism, there are so many , I just named a few, how about Arab Spring or many grassroot revolutions around the world, they've got nothing to do with communism.

The whole point of Opium War is to force China to align to Western Idea and pull China into western influence, which it did because China was craved by the 8 nations. If that is not political motivated, then I dont know what is?

You are now in denial mode, we all know why they came to China, for money and wealth, they wanted to do trade freely in China but Qing dynasty didn't grant them. they didn't travel this far for political alignment, they came here for money and wealth.

Then please tell me why US/EU did not start investing in 1970s when Nixon started normalise Relationship, or in the 60s, when US and China was actually hostile?

Can you read please, I answered many time, China didn't let them.
 
.
many non-Chinese still believe PLA like to kill people

Its a standard Western propaganda. In Pakistan, several foreign funded NGOs keep driving this point through twitter and opinion columns that Pakistan army kills Pakistanis. That PTM, a brainchild of NGOs and foreign intel across border in Afghanistan keeps doing its subversive politics based on this fake narrative.
 
.
lol a "proof" from a Forum? What next? Are you going to quote this forum as proof?

From the Wikipedia which in turn cites a book and from a forum. My sources are better than sources you cited in jour post 49. US support for Saddam Hussein is a well known fact:

All 4 questions, do you have reading problem?
You did not even answer one, you just show me some quote on a forum

I answered to all your 4 questions.

Even the Chinese Poster above agree that It was the US and EU who rearm China during that period. You still not going to concede to that point? Wow...….

During which period ?

Again, would Japan, Germany and Singapore agree with build China up if US was not in Favourable term with China?

They didn't build China up. They invested in China, that's all. They continued to invest even when China had bad relations with US after 1989. Russia currently had very bad relations with US empire and guess what. Companies from other countries (eg. Mercedes, Huawei) couninue to invest in Russia.

You have a slave mentality. You probably think that the Sun would stop shining and the Earth would stop moving if US regime order so. US regime imposed several rounds of sanctions against Russia since Russia's reunification with Crimea in 2014. US sanctions were meant to cripple Russia. US terrorist Obama boasted how "Russia is isolated, with its economy in tatters", other US terrorist McCain boasted how "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country". Five years has passed and Russia is doing OK.

US has been doing stuff to Soviet Union since 1949, do you see Soviet Union fall in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s or 1980s? No. What you are saying is that since US is working to sabotage the Soviet Union, thus US must know how and when will Soviet Union fall, that argument is absurd at best, idiotic at worse. You can only apply pressure to a regime but you cannot know when will it fall.

Also, if Gorbachev's opinion is anything to go by, USSR fall is largely without US involvement. It was year after year detraction and financial strain that leads to USSR failing. Not because of US action with USSR.

Take Afghanistan as an example, nobody force Soviet Union to invade Afghanistan, not at least the American. It would be their own fault to underestimate the resilience of Mujahedeen.

US actions were not the only reason why Soviet Union fall, but US supported this. There were people predicting the fall of the Soviet Union before 1989. Also Gorbatchev sought good relations with USA, that's why in 1989 US regime no longer needen China as counterbalance to the Soviet Union.

You still did not answer my question, and it is a easy Yes and No Question.

Would US and EU still invest in China had Tiananmen Square happened 10 years before?

The EU ? What are you talking about ? You have a problem with even basic facts. The EU was created in 1992. There was no EU before 1992.

And what do you mean by "Tiananmen Square happened" ? AFAIK Tiananmen Square was build in 1651.
 
Last edited:
.
From the Wikipedia which in turn cites a book and from a forum. My sources are better than sources you cited in jour post 49. US support for Saddam Hussein is a well known fact:

On the other hand, you still have no answer the question, a forum here, a video there, I can show you a picture of UN Sectary General shake hand with Saddam Hussein when he was awarded the UNESCO award for improving the living standards in Iraq, what does that even mean? Does that mean UN support Iraq Genocide Kurds?

I never denied US help Iraq, like the 4 Billions Agriculture Grant and Help them build the Nuclear Power Plant, you still have not show me one solid proof US sold arms directly to Iraq prior to Gulf War

I answered to all your 4 questions.

You did not even answer one.

During which period ?

Read the response above, it's the same period between 80s to 90s.

They didn't build China up. They invested in China, that's all. They continued to invest even when China had bad relations with US after 1989. Russia currently had very bad relations with US empire and guess what. Companies from other countries (eg. Mercedes, Huawei) couninue to invest in Russia.

lol giving them money and technology and selling them weapon is not "Building" a country up? Then US was not building up Israel, Georgia (The country, not the US states) and Ukraine I guess.

And if it is as you said, Russia is already sunsetting in 1980s, how do they build China up?

The very fact that you put Russia in in itself say how much you know Asian Politics, China detracted with Russia since early 1970 after Russia and China have the border dispute in 1969, China and Soviet Union did not sign the Border Agreement until 1991. I am not sure if America was a friend of China in 1989, but SU is definitely not a fan of China in the 70s and 80s.

You have a slave mentality. You probably think that the Sun would stop shining and the Earth would stop moving if US regime order so. US regime imposed several rounds of sanctions against Russia since Russia's reunification with Crimea in 2014. US sanctions were meant to cripple Russia. US terrorist Obama boasted how "Russia is isolated, with its economy in tatters", other US terrorist McCain boasted how "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country". Five years has passed and Russia is doing OK.

And you know nothing about Far East Politics

To start, you don't even know China is at Conflict with Russia during the late 60s to Early 90s, or else how and why US will in turn try to please China? You need to learn something about Vietnam war but rather listen to people talk about it.

But meh, what did I expect in a pole? Do you even read any Far East Language?

Secondly, Japan, Germany and French are all with US money. And to say Japan help China itself is an absurd idea.

And then I have absolutely no idea why you would put 2014 sanction of Russia here, that have no relation to what we are talking about. As I said, Russia and China was not buddy back then.


US actions were not the only reason why Soviet Union fall, but US supported this. There were people predicting the fall of the Soviet Union before 1989. Also Gorbatchev sought good relations with USA, that's why in 1989 US regime no longer needen China as counterbalance to the Soviet Union.

US seek counterbalance before 1989, do you even know when is US normalise relationship with China? 1971. If they cannot predict USSR fall in 1971, they could not predict USSR fall in 1991.

Gorbachev never seek good intention to the US, I don't even know how or why anyone would say that. You say that only because it will make your argument work better, in fact, Ronald Regan's famously declare they (The American) will need to end the Cold War in the 1990s.

The EU ? What are you talking about ? You have a problem with even basic facts. The EU was created in 1992. There was no EU before 1992.

And what do you mean by "Tiananmen Square happened" ? AFAIK Tiananmen Square was build in 1651.

Are you really Pole? Or live in Europe? You sure you are not from some third world Eastern Europe shithole?

The Formation of EU goes back to 1958 when the first mention of the term European Union were signed on the official document of TREATY ON THE FUNCTIONING OF THE EUROPEAN UNION (Treaty of Rome)

https://lexparency.org/eu/TFEU/TOC/EN/latest/

Okay, I will give you that maybe I should call European Union, not EU, but well, the EU, as we know now, is created in 1993 (not 1992, they sign the Maastricht Treaty in 1992, but that was not in effect until 1993.) However, Maastricht Treaty is seen only as enhanced intergration of European Union, not as a formation of European Union, that was already done when the core Europe Nation sign The Treaty of Rome (otherwise known as Treaty on the functioning of the European Union) Which define the concept of constiation of a single Europe Market, and a Single European Community called European Economic Communities. While the Treaty on Euiropean Union (1992) further Enhance the Administration of Single Market (by using Euro and replacing individual currency) and also put further into aspect of collective defence (The Formation of EU Battle Group) and the movement between different EU member,

European Union exist BEFORE 1993, but that is not the same European Union we have today. So unless you can point to me where my information got wrong, I can still say European Union in the 80s, 90s.

How come a person of Asian backgorund is giving a EU lecture to a Pole? Maybe a trip to Brussel (Which I did take 2 years ago) you will learn more about EU than an Asian Student? I don't know, but maybe it won't help you?
 
.
The Formation of EU goes back to 1958 when the first mention of the term European Union were signed on the official document of TREATY ON THE FUNCTIONING OF THE EUROPEAN UNION (Treaty of Rome)

https://lexparency.org/eu/TFEU/TOC/EN/latest/

Okay, I will give you that maybe I should call European Union, not EU, but well, the EU, as we know now, is created in 1993 (not 1992, they sign the Maastricht Treaty in 1992, but that was not in effect until 1993.) However, Maastricht Treaty is seen only as enhanced intergration of European Union, not as a formation of European Union, that was already done when the core Europe Nation sign The Treaty of Rome (otherwise known as Treaty on the functioning of the European Union) Which define the concept of constiation of a single Europe Market, and a Single European Community called European Economic Communities. While the Treaty on Euiropean Union (1992) further Enhance the Administration of Single Market (by using Euro and replacing individual currency) and also put further into aspect of collective defence (The Formation of EU Battle Group) and the movement between different EU member,

European Union exist BEFORE 1993, but that is not the same European Union we have today. So unless you can point to me where my information got wrong, I can still say European Union in the 80s, 90s.

How come a person of Asian backgorund is giving a EU lecture to a Pole? Maybe a trip to Brussel (Which I did take 2 years ago) you will learn more about EU than an Asian Student? I don't know, but maybe it won't help you?

And were in the link you posted is said that the treaty of Rome from 1957 is saying about the European Union ?

From website of European Parlament:

Treaty of Rome (EEC)

Treaty establishing the European Economic Community

Two treaties were signed on 25 March 1957 - the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community (EEC) and the Treaty establishing the European Atomic Energy Community (EAEC or Euratom). For both new Communities, decisions were taken by the Council on a proposal from the Commission. The Parliamentary Assembly is to be consulted, and give its opinions to the Council. The Assembly increases in size to 142 members. The European Parliamentary Assembly held its first session the following year, on 19 March 1958. With the Treaties of Rome, a specific provision is made for members to be directly elected (this was implemented in 1979).

  • Signed in: Rome (Italy) 25 March 1957
  • Entry into force: 1st January 1958
source: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/about...he-parliament-and-the-treaties/treaty-of-rome

Where do you see something about European Union ? You are just a troll with very hard skin. I proved you were wrong so you doubled down on your false statement.

I will not respond to your other absurd claims because they are as absurd as your claim that the EU existed before 1992.
 
.
And were in the link you posted is said that the treaty of Rome from 1957 is saying about the European Union ?

From website of European Parlament:

Treaty of Rome (EEC)

Treaty establishing the European Economic Community

Two treaties were signed on 25 March 1957 - the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community (EEC) and the Treaty establishing the European Atomic Energy Community (EAEC or Euratom). For both new Communities, decisions were taken by the Council on a proposal from the Commission. The Parliamentary Assembly is to be consulted, and give its opinions to the Council. The Assembly increases in size to 142 members. The European Parliamentary Assembly held its first session the following year, on 19 March 1958. With the Treaties of Rome, a specific provision is made for members to be directly elected (this was implemented in 1979).

  • Signed in: Rome (Italy) 25 March 1957
  • Entry into force: 1st January 1958
source: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/about...he-parliament-and-the-treaties/treaty-of-rome

Where do you see something about European Union ? You are just a troll with very hard skin. I proved you were wrong so you doubled down on your false statement.

I will not respond to your other absurd claims because they are as absurd as your claim that the EU existed before 1992.

Are You For Real?

EU.jpg


Also, as per EU own Website.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=LEGISSUM:xy0023&from=EN

EU2.jpg


Maybe you should move to Asia and I move to Europe.
 
.
.
You can claim Hitler loved communism and he was a communist, I suggest you do some readings about how he interracted with German communist party, he drew many ideas from past philosophers and you can't claim those philosophers were all communists. You are actually the first person I met calling Hitler a communist.

Again, don't put word in my mouth, I never say Hitler love communism, what I said is "Hitler Hate EVERYONE but blonde German, which he is not" I never said he love Communism. If you read Mein Kempf, you see he compare his ideology to Marxism and he copy many of his idea form Karl Marx, this is what I said.

Many Tank Commander during WW2 appreciate Rommel and his ability to lead tank formation, Montgomery is one of these people, does that make Monty a Nazi?

I never said Hitler is a Communist and He love Communism.

You asked me to name some grassroots revolution not incited by communism, there are so many , I just named a few, how about Arab Spring or many grassroot revolutions around the world, they've got nothing to do with communism.

They have nothing to do with communism, except using Communism strategy, having Soviet Union advisor, and oh, have a role of Political Commissar in their rank. Other than that they are nothing Communist.

You are now in denial mode, we all know why they came to China, for money and wealth, they wanted to do trade freely in China but Qing dynasty didn't grant them. they didn't travel this far for political alignment, they came here for money and wealth.

And you still refuse to answer my question. If Political Environement is not a matter and only money is, why the US and European Countries @Piotr *Wink Wink, does not invest in China in the 60s, 70s and 80s

Can you read please, I answered many time, China didn't let them.

China do let them in 1971 after Nixon, why no investment then? Not until 1980s?

Do your homework before posting. Document you posted is from 2012 not from 1957. Show me original text of Treaty of Rome using term "the European Union".

It was posted in 2017 (not 2012) but the treaty was in forced in 1958. You can call it Treaty of Alien in 1958, that does not make it what it is today in 2019.

Because are we in 2019 or 1958 when I type that post?? By the way, the Treaty was updated in 1987 and 1992.

And finally, there are no denying that Treaty of Rome is the foundation of European Union, again, move your arse to Belgium and ask EU headquarter
 
.
Again, don't put word in my mouth, I never say Hitler love communism, what I said is "Hitler Hate EVERYONE but blonde German, which he is not" I never said he love Communism. If you read Mein Kempf, you see he compare his ideology to Marxism and he copy many of his idea form Karl Marx, this is what I said.

Many Tank Commander during WW2 appreciate Rommel and his ability to lead tank formation, Montgomery is one of these people, does that make Monty a Nazi?

I never said Hitler is a Communist and He love Communism.



They have nothing to do with communism, except using Communism strategy, having Soviet Union advisor, and oh, have a role of Political Commissar in their rank. Other than that they are nothing Communist.



And you still refuse to answer my question. If Political Environement is not a matter and only money is, why the US and European Countries @Piotr *Wink Wink, does not invest in China in the 60s, 70s and 80s



China do let them in 1971 after Nixon, why no investment then? Not until 1980s?

Piotr was righ about the EU and you were wrong! It started as what we call in German the Montanunion and far, far away from the European Union.
 
.
And you still refuse to answer my question. If Political Environement is not a matter and only money is, why the US and European Countries @Piotr *Wink Wink, does not invest in China in the 60s, 70s and 80s

What are you talking about ? Why are you lying again ? Volkswagen invested in China in 1980s:

"(...)In October 1984, the next step followed: the first foreign automobile manufacturer, the former Volkswagen factory AG concluded a joint venture contract, the beginning of 1985, the establishment of Shanghai-Volkswagen Automotive Company Ltd. followed. As early as the autumn of this year, the first Santana built as part of this cooperation rolled off the production line. By the end of the year, the German-Chinese joint venture had already produced 1,700 vehicles. (...)"
source: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/new...wagen-in-china-a-long-lasting-friendship.html


It was posted in 2017 (not 2012)

According to your own screenshot it was published in 2012.

You can call it Treaty of Alien in 1958, that does not make it what it is today in 2019.

Because are we in 2019 or 1958 when I type that post?? By the way, the Treaty was updated in 1987 and 1992.

You claimed that the EU existed before 1992, but you failed to prove it. I once again ask you to show me original text of Treaty of Rome using term "the European Union".
 
.
Piotr was righ about the EU and you were wrong! It started as what we call in German the Montanunion and far, far away from the European Union.

Maybe, if he asked me this question in 1957 or 1958.

as I said, We are in the 2019, name can changes, in fact, I already said I should not use the term "EU" as in today, and we are going to have to use what we know "Presently" to discuss what presently are, and we won't call a "Judge" today "Tai Shang" (Which is old Tong dynasty name for judge) But does that mean the concept of "Judge" does not exist in Tong Dynasty?

Treaty of Rome is the 1 of the two treaty that lead to the formation of European Union (Come from EU website itself), that is a fact even EU itself agree, I see no point argue sematic out of it.
 
. .
What are you talking about ? Why are you lying again ? Volkswagen invested in China in 1980s:

"(...)In October 1984, the next step followed: the first foreign automobile manufacturer, the former Volkswagen factory AG concluded a joint venture contract, the beginning of 1985, the establishment of Shanghai-Volkswagen Automotive Company Ltd. followed. As early as the autumn of this year, the first Santana built as part of this cooperation rolled off the production line. By the end of the year, the German-Chinese joint venture had already produced 1,700 vehicles. (...)"
source: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/new...wagen-in-china-a-long-lasting-friendship.html

Umm, what are you talking about? US invest in China in 1984. IBM invest in China as early as 1983 when they set up service center in China

https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/china/china_ch1.html

Are you arguing about EU too much and gone crazy? I said US was investing in China in the 1980s and hence there could not be a reason for CIA to topple Chinese Regime in 1989. You said US is hostile to China and only use China to counter balance Russia.

You are proofing my point by posting serious foreign investment in China mean CIA would basically shoot themselves on the foot if they try to topple the China regime, that was my point, not yours...

According to your own screenshot it was published in 2012.

According to EU website, it was one of the 2 treaty that formed the European Union.

You claimed that the EU existed before 1992, but you failed to prove it. I once again ask you to show me original text of Treaty of Rome using term "the European Union".

European Union did exist, in fact it did exist after the signing of Treaty of Rome, do tell me what do they form after Treaty of Rome then?

Not to mention that the European Union is a term in English, and Treaty of Rome was (AFAIK) in German, French, Italian and Dutch.

But are we talking in English?

Or you would rather I call it 欧盟?
 
.
In comment 68 you wrote:
(...) why the US and European Countries @Piotr *Wink Wink, does not invest in China in the 60s, 70s and 80s

which is false. I provided Volkswagen as example of a company from Germany from Europe that invested in China in 1980s

When it comes to the EU no amount of your flip-floping will change a fact that your statement about the EU existing before 1992 is false.
 
.
In comment 68 you wrote:


which is false. I provided Volkswagen as example of a company from Germany from Europe that invested in China in 1980s

Did you even go thru ALL the post I have with that poster?

He said Foreign investment in China is because of businessman goes where the money goes.

I said, if so, then why there are no investment back in 60s, 70s and 80s?

That is not a statement, That is a question, it can be right or wrong. And if you follow the whole convo, you should know which answer I am looking at.

And before you say anything, if you still remember, I am the person who say US sold China Latest Combat Helicopter. Just in case your Alzheimer kick in.


When it comes to the EU no amount of your flip-floping will change a fact that your statement about the EU existing before 1992 is false.

So what did it form after 7 European Country sign the Treaty of Rome? Is it nothing? They just sign something for fun?

You are going after the naming sematic, which I have already said a few post ago I should not call it EU to begin with because that would not be the right name of the era.

Again, I can call it 欧盟 if you like.

found it very funny that you call me "Flipping and Flopping" when it was you who hang up on the name I use lol.
 
Last edited:
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom