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How Civilizations Die: (And Why Iran is Dying Too)

iranigirl2

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David Goldman's book, How Civilizations Die: (And Why IRAN Is Dying Too), highlights the grim future. This is a must read for Iranians.


But Islamic society is even more fragile. As Muslim fertility shrinks at a rate demographers have never seen before, it is converging on Europe's catastrophically low fertility as if in time-lapse photography. The average 30-year-old Iranian woman comes from a family of six children, but she will bear only one or two children during her lifetime. Turkey and Algeria are just behind Iran on the way down, and most of the other Muslim countries are catching up quickly. By the middle of this century, the belt of Muslim countries from Morocco to Iran will become as gray as depopulating Europe. The Islamic world will have the same proportion of dependent elderly as the industrial countries - but one-tenth the productivity. A time bomb that cannot be defused is ticking in the Muslim world.



If demographic winter is encroaching slowly on the West, a snap frost has overtaken the Muslim world. Europe has had two hundred years to make the transition from the high fertility rates of rural life to the low fertility rates of the industrial world. Iran, Turkey, Tunisia, and Algeria are attempting it in twenty. The graying of the Muslim world in lapsed time, as it were, can have only tragic consequences.

Think of a train wreck: the front car hits an obstacle, and the rear cars collapse accordion-style with the momentum. Driving the demographics of Iran, Algeria, Tunisia, and other Muslim countries is a "locomotive made up of people in their teens and twenties. They were born into families of six or seven children. But this "locomotive" has hit a demographic wall: these young people are having only one or two children. Today's "bulge generation of young Muslims, whose political humiliation and frustration over economic stagnation stoked the Arab rebellions of 2011, will be followed by a generation dramatically smaller than their own.

Today there are more Iranians in their mid-twenties than in any other age bracket. But they are not reproducing. An educated twenty-five-year-old Iranian women today probably grew up in a family of six or seven children, but will bear only one child. The consequences will be catastrophic. Today there are nine Iranians of working age for every elderly dependent. By 2050, when the bulge in Iran’s population will be at retirement age, there will be more Iranians in their mid-sixties than in any other age bracket—seven elderly dependents for every ten working Iranians. The country produces just $4,400 per capita [adjusted constant dollars], about a tenth of America’s GDP, and most of that comes directly or indirectly from oil and natural gas reserves—which are running out.

It’s already too late to fend off the population decline. Aging populations present a danger even to rich countries with well-funded public pension systems. For poor countries with a primitive social safety net or none at all, a graying society will be a disaster. By 2070, Iran will be grayer than Europe.

Across the entire Muslim world, university-educated Muslim women bear children at the same rate as their infecund European counterparts.As soon as Muslims women break the constraints of traditional society, they have one child and sometimes two, but rarely three or four- and almost never six or seven children that their mothers bore.. These demographic and religious developments in Iran find a striking parallel in Turkey as well. A third of the 88 percent-literate Turks never attend the mosque, according to the SVS polls, along with a quarter of 82 percent-literate Iranians.


Muslim leaders show more panic about their own demographic decline than the most despondent Western pessimist. The presidents of Iran and Turkey, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Tayyip Erdogan, both warn of that their nations may be extinguished in a single generation. For the most part, the English-language media has ignored their warnings, but they pervade the Turkish- and Persian-language press and blogs. The sense of impending doom that pervades much of the Muslim world makes these countries dangerous and unstable. The risk to world security is not the gradual triumph of Islam by demographic accretion, but an era of instability, social breakdown, and aggression impelled by despair.

Iran’s Ahmadinejad, meanwhile, warns that national extinction will be the result of his country’s collapsing birth rate. On September 10, 2010, the Iranian president declared during a meeting with officials in Alborz province,“Two children” is a formula for the extinction of a nation, not the survival of a nation . . . The most recent data showing that there are only 18 children for every 10 Iranian couples should raise an alarm among the present generation . . . . This is what is wrong with the West. Negative population growth will cause the extinction of our identity and culture. The fact that we have accepted this places us on the wrong path. To want to consume more rather than having children is an act of genocide.

The Persian-language site Javan Online quoted President Ahmadinejad and also cited sociologist Majid Abhari warning of a “tidal wave of elderly” due to “decreased fertility” coming in the next few decades, leading to “workforce reduction and higher social insurance and medical costs due to an overwhelmingly elderly population.”


There is supposedly a correlation between the literacy rate of women in Muslim countries and their fertility rate. “As more Iranian women went through the school system, the researchers conclude, fewer had children.” And how do they compare with the rest of the Muslim world? Answer: “Iranian women are the best educated in the Muslim world.”Java Online, a Persian language website, had proposed that the following factors contribute to the reduction of fertility:

• Increased education for women
• Increasing employment of women
• Improved health care and family planning
• Higher marriage age
• More frequent divorce
• Urbanization



How Civilizations Die: (And Why Islam Is Dying Too): David Goldman: 9781596982734: Amazon.com: Books
 
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People want less children because 1. everything is expensive now and 2. They care about their children , Their future and etc

It was 30 - 40 years ago that people used women as a baby maker and you could find a football team in every single house .

Adding that , Its none of westerns business to judge Iran and Islam and write books for them .

I think Islam is not dying here , Just the ones that really believe in it and think its useful following it and as the time goes duplicity and pretending are disappeared .
 
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People want less children because 1. everything is expensive now .

That's not entirely true.


How come European countries with good economy and much less inflation than Iran also have less kids?


How come poor, illiterate, rural, Iranian still have more kids , than Urbanized, educated, middle class Iranian?



Studies, after studies has shown that following factors contribute to the reduction of fertility:

• Increased education for women
• Increasing employment of women
• Improved health care and family planning
• Higher marriage age
• More frequent divorce
• Urbanization



The more we move away from Traditional Gender Roles, the quicker our civilization will suffer a decline.


So, that brings in a more difficult debate.

Should we stay home and have more kids?

Was Iran right to ban females from certain Majors at universities?


What do you guys think?
 
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Every country in the world is having less babies per woman now, not only iran. And Isnt it good the world is having less babies now.

The world population is booming and the resources to sustain us is becoming scarce and competition is increasing. The argument of this article is that have more babies or your culture will die out, which to me is bullCr@p.
 
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Every country in the world is having less babies per woman now, not only iran. And Isnt it good the world is having less babies now.

The world population is booming and the resources to sustain us is becoming scarce and competition is increasing. The argument of this article is that have more babies or your culture will die out, which to me is bullCr@p.



Poor Muslim countries like Afghanistan, Somalia,etc... are having more kids..


Europeans are Having less kids , BUT the brightest and most educated people in the east moving and migrating to Europe, so they contribute to productivity of European countries. This is why Europe will not change it's emigration policy. They want the smart and educated Iranian,Turkish,Iraqi,Pakistani,Chinese, etc.. to move to Europe. (yes, this will wipe out the European race, but help their productivity)


But in Iran we don't have immigrants coming into Iran to contribute to our society and productivity.

By 2070, Iran will be grayer than Europe but with one-tenth the productivity.


we are losing our culture and productivity!
 
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Poor Muslim countries like Afghanistan, Somalia,etc... are having more kids..


Europeans are Having less kids , BUT the brightest and most educated people in the east moving and migrating to Europe, so they contribute to productivity of European countries. This is why Europe will not change it's emigration policy. They want the smart and educated Iranian,Turkish,Iraqi,Pakistani,Chinese, etc.. to move to Europe.


But in Iran we don't have other people coming into Iran to contribute to our society and productivity.

By 2070, Iran will be grayer than Europe but with one-tenth the productivity.

It's pretty much a dark future.

Well iranian culture dying out and "brain drain" are two different matters altogether.

People of iran might migrate to other countries for jobs or education, but that does not mean they will lose their culture just because they are in a different country.

As for "brain drain", most developing countries have that problem. Countries like China and India are facing this problem as well. Young educated iranians are moving overseas, to replace them the article suggest iranians have more kids. But this will only cause more problems for iran. (Lesser working population, more young dependent children)

The best policy over here is to retain the young people of iran, not having more kids.
 
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People want less children because 1. everything is expensive now and 2. They care about their children , Their future and etc

It was 30 - 40 years ago that people used women as a baby maker and you could find a football team in every single house .

Adding that , Its none of westerns business to judge Iran and Islam and write books for them .

I think Islam is not dying here , Just the ones that really believe in it and think its useful following it and as the time goes duplicity and pretending are disappeared .

:rofl::rofl:....... in pak we call it a cricket team lol....
 
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Ha,

Goldman, a leftist turned conservative and lets not say anything about his associations with Israel.

Anyways, this is a biased statement.

Demographic decline is vastly taking place in Europe and not in Iran and Turkey compared to Europe.

These conservatives are very conniving people, sometimes they scare you that Islam is growing and then falsify the info to suggest otherwise.

Iran and Turkey would continue to grow and this actually might be a problem for them as they have to manage more efficiently.
 
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Poor Muslim countries like Afghanistan, Somalia,etc... are having more kids..


Europeans are Having less kids , BUT the brightest and most educated people in the east moving and migrating to Europe, so they contribute to productivity of European countries. This is why Europe will not change it's emigration policy. They want the smart and educated Iranian,Turkish,Iraqi,Pakistani,Chinese, etc.. to move to Europe. (yes, this will wipe out the European race, but help their productivity)


But in Iran we don't have immigrants coming into Iran to contribute to our society and productivity.

By 2070, Iran will be grayer than Europe but with one-tenth the productivity.


we are losing our culture and productivity!

Listen,

In case you have not forgotten, Europe is staring at an economic crisis which makes it very difficult for it to take in immigrants.

Iranians are migrating, but more to UAE and other gulf kingdoms and north america and australia.

How to reverse this trend?

It is difficult to work in a sanctioned country.

soften your stance a bit.
 
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That's not entirely true.


How come European countries with good economy and much less inflation than Iran also have less kids?


How come poor, illiterate, rural, Iranian still have more kids , than Urbanized, educated, middle class Iranian?



Studies, after studies has shown that following factors contribute to the reduction of fertility:

• Increased education for women
• Increasing employment of women
• Improved health care and family planning
• Higher marriage age
• More frequent divorce
• Urbanization



The more we move away from Traditional Gender Roles, the quicker our civilization will suffer a decline.


So, that brings in a more difficult debate.

Should we stay home and have more kids?

Was Iran right to ban females from certain Majors at universities?


What do you guys think?

im no jokin but i heard once dat it also depends on environment n weathr conditions...well biology n science does include it as one of da reasons.....

most of da asian n eastrn countires hav warm weathr n da wheathr in europe is cold...n see da population rate!

Listen,

In case you have not forgotten, Europe is staring at a economic crisis which makes it very difficult for it to take in immigrants.

Iranians are migrating, but more to UAE and other gulf kingdoms and north america and australia.

How to reverse this trend?

It is difficult to work in a sanctioned country.

soften your stance a bit.

economic crises is everywhere thez days....not only in europe...
 
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im no jokin but i heard once dat it also depends on environment n weathr conditions...well biology n science does include it as one of da reasons.....

most of da asian n eastrn countires hav warm weathr n da wheathr in europe is cold...n see da population rate!



economic crises is everywhere thez days....not only in europe...

Europe is in the eye of the storm. Since it spent more, it is suffering more.
 
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World is already facing a population crisis and you're complaining about low fertility rate. Fertility rate is declining everywhere. If people make babies like factories then in a few years of time, we would have to face huge problems. Resources are running out in the world, forests are being destroyed and our time is running out on earth. High fertility rate will only bring us closer to destruction.

What do you say about China? They have one child policy yet they are becoming the most powerful country in the world.

Your country is dying not because it is less conservative, because it is more conservative. Almost all the Iranians I've met here, migrated after the Islamic revolution and those people are highly educated.
NOTE: I commented because I saw it on "latest posts" section. :P
 
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mayb cuz China is gunna b da nnext superpower so Europe n USA has to go down:girl_wink:

im movin to china:pakistan::laugh: jk

Well, northern, central and even western europe to some extent maintains better living standards because there is less corruption.

but there is no doubt that the pivot is towards Asia, more specifically, China, Japan, South Korea, malaysia, Indonesia, singapore, brunei and in western asia, the gulf states are doing good.
 
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ok juz had dis on Pakistan Votes wall tody a mins ago...
@Silverblaze @iranigirl2

1003109_665954946752583_857124457_n.jpg
 
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