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How China Could Challenge the Boeing-Airbus Duopoly

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How China Could Challenge the Boeing-Airbus Duopoly
Investors overestimated the competitive chances of Bombardier and Embraer, but now risk underestimating the threat posed by China
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The C919, designed by China’s Comac, has about 1,000 orders from Chinese airlines. PHOTO: DING TING/ZUMA PRESS

By
Jon Sindreu
Jan. 6, 2019 10:00 a.m. ET

Boeing and Airbus are very close to neutralizing all threats to their duopoly—with one exception. In time, a Chinese challenger could have the scale necessary to compete in the $190 billion commercial aviation market.

Boeing is in talks to buy an 80% stake in the commercial aircraft division of Brazilian manufacturer Embraer for $4.2 billion. Terms were approved last month, though the deal still needs approval from the Brazilian government. New President Jair Bolsonaro sent mixed messages Friday, telling reporters the merger was good while also expressing concern about losing control.


Boeing’s interest in Embraer is a response to Airbus’ purchase of the 108-to-133 seater CSeries—renamed A220—from Canadian manufacturer Bombardier. If completed, the latest deal would take out the industry’s last small player.

Only five years ago, the dominance of Boeing and Airbus looked shaky. Bombardier and Embraer ruled the under-100 seat regional jet market, and the launch of the CSeries threatened the 100-to-150 seat models of the Boeing 737 and the Airbus A319. This was the duopoly’s first real competition since Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas in 1997.

Back then, investors overestimated the disruptors’ chances in a market where economies of scale reign supreme. Now they may be underestimating the threat posed by Chinese aviation, which lags behind in technology but has scale.

Through aggressive discounts, Boeing and Airbus created large losses for Bombardier. In 2008, the Canadian company expected demand for planes with 100 to 150 seats to top 6,300 orders by 2027, but the CSeries has only gotten 402 orders so far. Embraer’s E-Jet E2 series was careful to keep a lower profile, but margins also buckled under pressure.

Boeing and Airbus should get more credit from investors for taking out their competition at a reasonable price. Leveraging their heft and service capabilities is key to their dominance. Right after Airbus took over the CSeries a big airline like JetBlue said it would buy 60 of them, and last week confirmed it had placed a firm order. And Embraer’s Brazil-based engineers increase Boeing’s chances of designing a profitable new midsize plane.

For all their growing pains, Bombardier and Embraer could have turned into serious challengers had they been allowed to expand with more time and more government assistance. This should also be a cautionary tale.

The C919, designed by China’s Comac to rival the A320 and 737, started flying last year. The threat looks deceptively distant because the duopoly have better products.

Yet before 1987 Boeing also saw Airbus as an overly subsidized inferior competitor. Then the A320 hit the market: State-fueled growth had turned Airbus into an equal.

China’s pockets are large, too. A conservative estimate for public money spent on the C919 is above $7 billion, according to U.S. think tank Rand Corp. That’s more than the CSeries cost to develop, and on par with the A320 once adjusted for inflation. Unlike Bombardier, Comac has a huge domestic market—the C919 already has about 1,000 orders from Chinese airlines—and could easily expand across Asia, Russia and Africa.

Boeing and Airbus have made the right moves. But competition from China may be knocking on their gates sooner than they expect.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-could-challenge-the-boeing-airbus-duopoly-11546786800
 
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I wish China success but it will be while they will be close to Boeing and Airbus, I mean Tupolev from Russia and Ilyushin have been manufacturing planes since Soviet times but still have not cracked the monopoly yet
 
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I wish China success but it will be while they will be close to Boeing and Airbus, I mean Tupolev from Russia and Ilyushin have been manufacturing planes since Soviet times but still have not cracked the monopoly yet
China is not Russia, it's all about money and will, China just started fast development a decade ago, and a decade ago I still remember that people lamented that China could not even make a cellphone but now Chinese phones are dominating the world market, a decade ago China only knows bullet trains from Japan and now over 60% of the world highspeed railways are from China, that's how fast the country develops.
 
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There will be no competition or indigenous and sanctions free aeroplane on offer till Chinese master the engine technology.
Thats the Achilles heel for chinese aerospace ambitions.
 
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There will be no competition or indigenous and sanctions free aeroplane on offer till Chinese master the engine technology.
Thats the Achilles heel for chinese aerospace ambitions.
You have forgot the most important thing: China has the huge domestic market, unlike Brazil, Canada, Russia, and Japan.
 
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You have forgot the most important thing: China has the huge domestic market, unlike Brazil, Canada, Russia, and Japan.
True but since except the body everything else is sourced from western suppliers , this is a good attempt at assembly. The tap can be closed at any time like the chinese phone last year.
Wikipedia-
"Systems

the air conditioning made by Liebherr
The engine's nacelle, thrust reverser and exhaust system will be provided by Nexcelle, with such features as an advanced inlet configuration, the extensive use of composites and acoustic treatment and an electrically operated thrust reverser.[50]Michelin will supply Air X radial tyres.[51] Its integrated modular avionics architecture is based on Ethernet.[35] The landing gear is made in China by a joint venture of Germany's Liebherr and Avic’s Landing Gear Advanced Manufacturing Corp: Liebherr LAMC Aviation.[40]

While the airframe is entirely made by Chinese Avic, most systems are made by Western-Chinese joint-ventures: with UTAS for the electric power, fire protection and lighting; with Rockwell Collins for the cabin systems and avionics, with Thales for the IFE, with Honeywell for the flight controls, APU, wheels and brakes; with Moog for the high lift system; with Parker for the hydraulics, actuators and fuel systems, with Liebherr for the landing gear and air management; and the CFM engine and Nexcelle nacelle are entirely foreign.[52]

EnginesEdit

CFM International LEAP mockup
Both Pratt & Whitney and CFM International offered to provide the engines for the aircraft, the former offering the PW1000G and the latter the LEAP-1C;[53]the latter was ultimately selected"
 
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True but since except the body everything else is sourced from western suppliers , this is a good attempt at assembly. The tap can be closed at any time like the chinese phone last year.
Wikipedia-
"Systems

the air conditioning made by Liebherr
The engine's nacelle, thrust reverser and exhaust system will be provided by Nexcelle, with such features as an advanced inlet configuration, the extensive use of composites and acoustic treatment and an electrically operated thrust reverser.[50]Michelin will supply Air X radial tyres.[51] Its integrated modular avionics architecture is based on Ethernet.[35] The landing gear is made in China by a joint venture of Germany's Liebherr and Avic’s Landing Gear Advanced Manufacturing Corp: Liebherr LAMC Aviation.[40]

While the airframe is entirely made by Chinese Avic, most systems are made by Western-Chinese joint-ventures: with UTAS for the electric power, fire protection and lighting; with Rockwell Collins for the cabin systems and avionics, with Thales for the IFE, with Honeywell for the flight controls, APU, wheels and brakes; with Moog for the high lift system; with Parker for the hydraulics, actuators and fuel systems, with Liebherr for the landing gear and air management; and the CFM engine and Nexcelle nacelle are entirely foreign.[52]

EnginesEdit

CFM International LEAP mockup
Both Pratt & Whitney and CFM International offered to provide the engines for the aircraft, the former offering the PW1000G and the latter the LEAP-1C;[53]the latter was ultimately selected"
From the beginning, China decides to follow the pattern of Boeing and Airbus to develop C919 and C929, and chooses supplier from all over the world.

Besides, you have forgot Y-20, which is bigger than C919.
 
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Nobody is challenging the chinese market or the will and ability to make it a success..
What is feared that if relations between usa and China sour now or later due to any issue then the supplies of the engine and other components for the aircraft will be stopped and thus china needs to increase the indigenous products gradually but consistently. Remember boeing forced lawsuits onto canada inspite or cordial relations and threat of sanctions / retaliation from canadians. Sooner or later the same can and will happen with china.
 
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Nobody is challenging the chinese market or the will and ability to make it a success..
What is feared that if relations between usa and China sour now or later due to any issue then the supplies of the engine and other components for the aircraft will be stopped and thus china needs to increase the indigenous products gradually but consistently. Remember boeing forced lawsuits onto canada inspite or cordial relations and threat of sanctions / retaliation from canadians. Sooner or later the same can and will happen with china.
I don't think it would be a bad news to Chinese suppliers.
And thanks to the sanctions, China has many our own things.

Besides, it will be really a bad news to Boeing.
 
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I wish China success but it will be while they will be close to Boeing and Airbus, I mean Tupolev from Russia and Ilyushin have been manufacturing planes since Soviet times but still have not cracked the monopoly yet
As you pointed out, Russia, despite being making good plane for decades, had never managed to reach the same level. I guess one thing that China can take advantage of, which Russia lacked in the past, is its massive and growing domestic market. It provides a nursery for the domestic made plane to grow and mature. I think both telecommunications and high speed rail industry are good analogy where we have seen China moving from follower to leader in a couple of decades. No doubt it is going to take more time in aviation (than say HDR) but a great journey has to start from somewhere.:china:
 
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In the end, money talks, enough fund can make everything happen, same is true in US, same is true in China.

Very often a later comer gets the game, US n Russia started space research but in a couple of years, Chinese space station will be the only in the world operating up there.
 
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As you pointed out, Russia, despite being making good plane for decades, had never managed to reach the same level. I guess one thing that China can take advantage of, which Russia lacked in the past, is its massive and growing domestic market. It provides a nursery for the domestic made plane to grow and mature. I think both telecommunications and high speed rail industry are good analogy where we have seen China moving from follower to leader in a couple of decades. No doubt it is going to take more time in aviation (than say HDR) but a great journey has to start from somewhere.:china:

Having been part of a "heart-break" team that made some of the final pleas to the Canadian govt to not abandon Bombardier (like they ended up doing and now simply all that time and effort by so many gets Airbus stamped on it now)....I wish China the best on this....you have the clear political will to gestate and carry forward things like this...probably like no other country in the world tbh.

@Cookie Monster @Chinese-Dragon @dy1022 @Deino @rott @TaiShang
 
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Having been part of a "heart-break" team that made some of the final pleas to the Canadian govt to not abandon Bombardier (like they ended up doing and now simply all that time and effort by so many gets Airbus stamped on it now)....I wish China the best on this....you have the clear political will to gestate and carry forward things like this...probably like no other country in the world tbh.

@Cookie Monster @Chinese-Dragon @dy1022 @Deino @rott @TaiShang
Are you saying Canadian government should have done more in Airbus acquisition of majority in C series?

Airbus has scored a lottery in buying C series, which put it in a excellent position in capturing lion share of the middle of the market, all thanks Boeing’s bullying.

As you pointed out, political will is required to develop an airliner and a sufficiently large domestic market is also a must, which Canada is also lacking. Boeing started to chase bombardier even it only had the potential to challenge it.

China’s main program C919 starts from the class of the best selling airliners of all time-A320 and Boeing 737. While it is the most sensible entry point with classical, time testing congratulations, it is also the most competitive one. Hoping China can come up something to capture at least some of MOM segments before Airbus gets everything.:o:
 
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