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How China Began World War III in the South China Sea

You can twist all you want but the fact is China, US, Soviet and other allied forces faught together and all of them, including the Filipinos mind you, deserved credits. This is a position even you can't deny.

How is it even possible that China wouldn't send any troops to fight the Japanese?? One thing you don't know is that one major reason why the Nationalist lost to the Communists was that the KMT was too busy fighting the Japanese, while the Communists were gaining grounds elsewhere.

"An estimated 14 million to 20 million Chinese died during this epic struggle of resistance against Japanese aggression in a war that produced a staggering 80 million to 100 million refugees. Despite the prolonged onslaught of Japan’s modern military machine for eight long years, a divided China, mostly on its own, put up a heroic fight against steep odds, pinning down 600,000 of its troops and playing a crucial role in weakening Japan by inflicting heavy casualties on forces that were better armed, supplied and trained. The official death toll for Japanese soldiers killed in China between 1937 and 1945 is 480,000.

China was a quagmire that forced Japan to squander vast amounts of resources that put it on a collision course with the Allied powers and undermined its Pacific War effort. To secure the resources it needed to win the war in China, Japan attacked resource-rich Western colonies in Southeast Asia and fatefully, the U.S. at Pearl Harbor.

Historian Rana Mitter points out that China’s key role in World War II is often overlooked, usually portrayed as a sideshow. Here we are given a magnificent rendering of these horrific years and a sense of the terrible price the Japanese exacted before their ultimate surrender.

The Sino-Japanese War began in July 1937, somewhat haphazardly in the vicinity of Beijing at the Marco Polo Bridge. After deadly skirmishing, local commanders had arranged a cease-fire and it seemed unlikely that the incident would flare into all out war, but Tokyo wanted to settle matters.

Mitter draws on a wide array of sources to give us a flavor of war in all its merciless manifestations. He presents a relatively sympathetic account of the Nationalist leader Chiang Kai-shek, the generalissimo who led Chinese resistance, pointing out that his forces did much more of the fighting than Mao Zedong’s Communists. But in 1949 Mao won the civil war against Chiang and thus the victor’s history that has prevailed until recently in China greatly inflates the role of the Communists while the far more crucial role of the Nationalists has been marginalized. Here they get their due, perhaps overly so.

In a war that was marked by awful atrocities inflicted by the Japanese marauders, the myth that Tokyo was out to liberate Asia is a cruel joke in China.

Perhaps one of the most devastating episodes was when Chiang ordered the breaching of dikes that held back the Yellow River. The deliberate flooding of vast stretches of Henan, Anhui and Jiangsu in 1938 was aimed at slowing the Japanese advance and was done without warning to preserve the element of surprise. Some half a million Chinese died in the deluge and another 4 million were displaced from their homes. It was a ghastly price to pay, but is emblematic of the determination and sacrifices that enabled the Chinese to prevail. True, Chinese battlefield victories were few, but by trading space for time and avoiding decisive defeat, Japan’s proud warriors were worn down by a nation that would not surrender."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/cultur...s-contribution-to-japans-defeat/#.XJBycSj0mUk

@Suika
This post deserves a positive rating.
 
When did the US propose to recognize Manchuria as part of Japan? If I recall correctly, that was an idea put out by some Americans but was not the official word of the US government during negotiations.
The idea was floated as part of the many 'backdoor' negotiations between the US and JPN. It was to recognize Manchuria as part of JPN proper, but at least the US would not challenge JPN's administrative authority over Manchuria.
 
The idea was floated as part of the many 'backdoor' negotiations between the US and JPN. It was to recognize Manchuria as part of JPN proper, but at least the US would not challenge JPN's administrative authority over Manchuria.

Even if it was floated, it was not a condition presented to Japan. FDR, Hull, and Hornbeck didn't seem interested in finding a middle ground. They weren't even willing to meet with Konoye in person. Japan was willing to leave Indochina, parts of China, and redefine its relation with Germany (afterall Germany was partner of Chiang kai-chek before 1937, so changing stances shouldn't have been difficult). The US underestimated Japan. They thought Japan's attack would be limited to a campaign in the Philippines and the rest of South East Asia. They didn't imagine the attack on Pearl Harbor could be so successful as it was. Enterprise was scheduled to arrive at Pearl Harbor on December 6th. But a storm delayed her trip. She was very fortunate to be delayed by that storm.

The biggest reason that made Japan lost could be attributed to anything, and no one can really say which one is the main reason. Personally, I think the atomic bomb was the main reason. However, the point here is that Gambit totally disregarded any Chinese efforts that contributed to the end of the war. That is WRONG and FAKE.

There are several examples of the Chinese fighting well or not giving up. One was a battle in 1940 at kunlun pass.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kunlun_Pass
 
You can twist all you want but the fact is China, US, Soviet and other allied forces faught together and all of them, including the Filipinos mind you, deserved credits. This is a position even you can't deny.

How is it even possible that China wouldn't send any troops to fight the Japanese?? One thing you don't know is that one major reason why the Nationalist lost to the Communists was that the KMT was too busy fighting the Japanese, while the Communists were gaining grounds elsewhere.

"An estimated 14 million to 20 million Chinese died during this epic struggle of resistance against Japanese aggression in a war that produced a staggering 80 million to 100 million refugees. Despite the prolonged onslaught of Japan’s modern military machine for eight long years, a divided China, mostly on its own, put up a heroic fight against steep odds, pinning down 600,000 of its troops and playing a crucial role in weakening Japan by inflicting heavy casualties on forces that were better armed, supplied and trained. The official death toll for Japanese soldiers killed in China between 1937 and 1945 is 480,000.

China was a quagmire that forced Japan to squander vast amounts of resources that put it on a collision course with the Allied powers and undermined its Pacific War effort. To secure the resources it needed to win the war in China, Japan attacked resource-rich Western colonies in Southeast Asia and fatefully, the U.S. at Pearl Harbor.

Historian Rana Mitter points out that China’s key role in World War II is often overlooked, usually portrayed as a sideshow. Here we are given a magnificent rendering of these horrific years and a sense of the terrible price the Japanese exacted before their ultimate surrender.

The Sino-Japanese War began in July 1937, somewhat haphazardly in the vicinity of Beijing at the Marco Polo Bridge. After deadly skirmishing, local commanders had arranged a cease-fire and it seemed unlikely that the incident would flare into all out war, but Tokyo wanted to settle matters.

Mitter draws on a wide array of sources to give us a flavor of war in all its merciless manifestations. He presents a relatively sympathetic account of the Nationalist leader Chiang Kai-shek, the generalissimo who led Chinese resistance, pointing out that his forces did much more of the fighting than Mao Zedong’s Communists. But in 1949 Mao won the civil war against Chiang and thus the victor’s history that has prevailed until recently in China greatly inflates the role of the Communists while the far more crucial role of the Nationalists has been marginalized. Here they get their due, perhaps overly so.

In a war that was marked by awful atrocities inflicted by the Japanese marauders, the myth that Tokyo was out to liberate Asia is a cruel joke in China.

Perhaps one of the most devastating episodes was when Chiang ordered the breaching of dikes that held back the Yellow River. The deliberate flooding of vast stretches of Henan, Anhui and Jiangsu in 1938 was aimed at slowing the Japanese advance and was done without warning to preserve the element of surprise. Some half a million Chinese died in the deluge and another 4 million were displaced from their homes. It was a ghastly price to pay, but is emblematic of the determination and sacrifices that enabled the Chinese to prevail. True, Chinese battlefield victories were few, but by trading space for time and avoiding decisive defeat, Japan’s proud warriors were worn down by a nation that would not surrender."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/cultur...s-contribution-to-japans-defeat/#.XJBycSj0mUk

@Suika

China did tie up Japanese ground forces. But it makes no difference to the naval battles in the Pacific. The US Navy still wins.
The only theater where Japan might have benefited is an attack on India.
 
China did tie up Japanese ground forces. But it makes no difference to the naval battles in the Pacific. The US Navy still wins.
The only theater where Japan might have benefited is an attack on India.
Without China in the way, Japan would attack the Soviet far east and then Soviet Union would have lost against the Third Reich. Then the Third Reich would defeat Great Britain and USA would be all alone against the Third Reich and Japan.
 
White supremacism is a more pressing problem
than radicalized Islam.


In fact, when one investigates the origins of radicalized Islam,

one finds whites lurking and acting in the shadows
.


People of color all concur that whites need to be caged and neutralized, and never again allowed a position to repeat their historical atrocities.

===

Brilliant Postings !!! and Absolute Truth.
~ Thanks so Much to you all 3 Brothers for All your Efforts
in writing so many Awesome Postings.


@Feng Leng ,, @Raphael ,, @ZeEa5KPul


2 Thumbs--Up--336px--1a.jpg
 
Why spend time with them, let them suffer alone.
if you say, just say how to make them angry. remember to speak less, even trolls are as short as they are trolls. and tell the truth, reality.

In the old years, China was weak, did China tell anyone? Chinese fans did not say.
When America is weak, America barks & they bark => understand what kind of thing they are, bloodthirsty Zombie & bloodthirsty young buffalo, the whole world wants to destroy Zombie & young buffalo VN.

The world and I never say bullshit like them (VN, some India, and anyone?), Proving that young buffalo sufferers suffer from mental illness, epilepsy, and menorrhagia.
they need American "medicine" :)) =)) to drink. =)) :)) =)) =))

P / S: they (VN,India,all) know the truth & reality, tell them what to do, take time.
they are trolls. End.

there will be voices of Luong Tam and Luong Tri all over the planet

@Viva_Viet
@Viet
@cochine
@fadine
@all &VN
@
@
 
Last edited:
Why spend time with them, let them suffer alone.
if you say, just say how to make them angry. remember to speak less, even trolls are as short as they are trolls. and tell the truth, reality.

In the old years, China was weak, did China tell anyone? Chinese fans did not say.
When America is weak, America barks & they bark => understand what kind of thing they are, bloodthirsty Zombie & bloodthirsty young buffalo, the whole world wants to destroy Zombie & young buffalo VN.

The world and I never say bullshit like them (VN, some India, and anyone?), Proving that young buffalo sufferers suffer from mental illness, epilepsy, and menorrhagia.
they need American "medicine" :)) =)) to drink. =)) :)) =)) =))

P / S: they (VN,India,all) know the truth & reality, tell them what to do, take time.
they are trolls. End.

there will be voices of Luong Tam and Luong Tri all over the planet, 1 when voices of conscience and global conscience rise ...

@Viva_Viet
@Viet
@cochine
@fadine
@all &VN
@
@
China aggressive claim is the root cause of tension in the SC Sea that will probably lead to war in the future. Why complaining about skin color if one has white or yellow?

What has anything to do with buffalo? Have you ever seen such an animal in your life? Crazy.
 
China did tie up Japanese ground forces. But it makes no difference to the naval battles in the Pacific. The US Navy still wins.
The only theater where Japan might have benefited is an attack on India.
Yes Indians should be GRATEFUL to China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/opinion/the-worlds-wartime-debt-to-china.html
The World’s Wartime Debt to China
China’s resistance to Japan is one of the great untold stories of World War II.
Though far weaker and poorer than the mighty United States or the British Empire, China played a major role in the war.
Some 40,000 Chinese soldiers fought in Burma alongside American and British troops in 1944, helping to secure the Stilwell Road linking Lashio to Assam in India.
In China itself, they held down some 800,000 Japanese soldiers.

@gambit being part Indian should show some gratitude to China.
GAMBIT INDIAN.png

.
 
Yes Indians should be GRATEFUL to China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/opinion/the-worlds-wartime-debt-to-china.html
The World’s Wartime Debt to China
China’s resistance to Japan is one of the great untold stories of World War II.
Though far weaker and poorer than the mighty United States or the British Empire, China played a major role in the war.
Some 40,000 Chinese soldiers fought in Burma alongside American and British troops in 1944, helping to secure the Stilwell Road linking Lashio to Assam in India.
In China itself, they held down some 800,000 Japanese soldiers.

@gambit being part Indian should show some gratitude to China.
View attachment 547929
.

Chinese were fighting for their survival
 
Even if it was floated, it was not a condition presented to Japan.
The idea was part of a proposal in 1932...

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/WorldWar2/manchuria.htm

Essentially, it was...

- cessation of all acts of violence on both sides;

- no further preparation for hostilities; (rejected by JPN)

- withdrawal of both Chinese and Japanese combatants in the Shanghai area;

- protection of the International Settlement at Shanghai by the establishment of neutral ones;

- prompt negotiations to settle all outstanding controversies between Japan and China with the aid of neutral observers or participants. (rejected by JPN)

China accepted all five points. JPN rejected 2 and 5. If Point 5 was accepted, the US was willing to reconsider China's administrative position regarding Manchuria. The intention was pretty much tit-for-tat, JPN to stop expansion plans on mainland China in return for Manchuria as JPNese controlled territory.

China did tie up Japanese ground forces. But it makes no difference to the naval battles in the Pacific.
The lack of military experience have always been the core problem towards understanding. Deterrence and containment can work only if diplomacy is on going. But once armed forces are deployed, the only way to defeat the enemy is either direct contact against his war resources from the front to his home soil or he surrenders before you reach his home soil. China contributed one part which was checking JPN's expansion on mainland China. The US and other allies contributed both parts by fighting JPNese overseas forces as well as attacking the JPNese home islands. The reality is that China could do no more.
 
T
The lack of military experience have always been the core problem towards understanding. Deterrence and containment can work only if diplomacy is on going. But once armed forces are deployed, the only way to defeat the enemy is either direct contact against his war resources from the front to his home soil or he surrenders before you reach his home soil. China contributed one part which was checking JPN's expansion on mainland China. The US and other allies contributed both parts by fighting JPNese overseas forces as well as attacking the JPNese home islands. The reality is that China could do no more.

Even if China joined Japan it would not change the outcome of the naval engagements
 
Even if China joined Japan it would not change the outcome of the naval engagements

Naval Engagement is just a part of a war. Fact is Most Japanese troops were held up in China, instead of fighting in the South East Asian theater, where Japan wanted to take over the East Indies and Malaya. Japan had already taken Thailand mind you. If Japanese troops were not held up in China, Japan probably won't even need to attack Pearl Harbor out of desperation. Just continue their troops from Thailand and crush today's Malaysia.
 
Naval Engagement is just a part of a war. Fact is Most Japanese troops were held up in China, instead of fighting in the South East Asian theater, where Japan wanted to take over the East Indies and Malaya. Japan had already taken Thailand mind you. If Japanese troops were not held up in China, Japan probably won't even need to attack Pearl Harbor out of desperation. Just continue their troops from Thailand and crush today's Malaysia.

Japan had 1 million Imperial Army troops in China. It makes no difference with respect to the war with USA. You can station extra 100,000 troops on Iwo Jima. Japanese could not feed them or supply them with US naval dominance. The results will be the same.
 

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