How Capitalism saved the space race

[21st Century Vampire]

@Nasr, I apologize for the rude behaviour

 

[Nasr]

Middle Class in america shrinking

https://fortune.com/longform/shrinking-middle-class/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...tes-where-middle-class-disappearing/39083263/

Middle Class in europe shrinking

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/business/spain-europe-middle-class.html

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/de/publications/blog/europes-shrinking-middle-class

And let me make myself very clear (in case you miss the point completely) "Western Capitalism" is not part of Islam at all.

We can discuss the points you have made and go forward in a proper civilized discussion to learn from one another, as Muslims!

 

[Nasr]

@Nasr, i'm just gonna ask the questions hovering the top of my head, i'm talking about the philosophy of capitalism and i made it clear i'm for control

• From which angle is the Islamic Economic system so anti capitalist?
• do you hate capitalism as a whole or just conflating the economic philosophy with crony capitalism?
• What is Islam's stance on the accumulation of wealth and protection of property rights especially for the bourgeoisie?
• Islamic stance on business profit for private businesses?
• Confused? No shame admitting it nor im shaming you....you ARE confused aren't you? Noticed that after you mentioned Riba which isn't even in the bigger picture

Sure, let's take your questions one by one. So the first question related to capitalism and Islam. Capitalism in it's purest sense of the word, ought to thrive in a "free market economy." In a free market economy, in Islam, the wealth is suppose to circulate in the society. Basis of this ethos, is found in businesses that operate in a "Usury Free" lending. Also, in an Islamic Economy, the lender shares the "Capital Risk" with the borrower.

A good example of what Western Capitalism has done, where money lent on interest is consolidated with a debt based economy. For every dollar printed, the United States government pays interest. So for it's $27 trillion in government debt, the American government has only been paying interest, not part of the capital sum borrowed. In turn, they are forced to print more money, which when circulated in the economy, depreciates in value, which is caused by inflationary adjustments that are in turn made due to the fact that the money borrowed is based on interest loans.

This perpetuates the debt cycle and forces not just governments to borrow more, but also businesses to do the same.

Another disease that Westernn Capilatism is infected with, is the disconnect between the borrower and the lender. Where the lender has zero risk in the loan given to the borrower. Be it mortgages, credit cards or financing as far as regular people go. So when the risk for the lender is zero, it in turn allows them to speculate (in crude terms, bet against) against the borrower, in the market. Thereby creating the lopsided environment where the rich become richer and the Middle Class becomes poorer and poorer.

This sort of capitalism (Western Capitalism) is not what Islam teaches. Which is the fundamental reason, Riba (interest loan being just of the many forms that constitutes Riba) is Haram (prohibited) in Islam.

-----------------------------------------

I will address all your points in-sha-Allah, dear brother. Just bare with me.

 

[21st Century Vampire]

Middle Class in america shrinking

https://fortune.com/longform/shrinking-middle-class/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...tes-where-middle-class-disappearing/39083263/

Middle Class in europe shrinking

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/business/spain-europe-middle-class.html

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/de/publications/blog/europes-shrinking-middle-class

How many went to lower income and upper income? I'm seeing conflicting reports from the guardian. Thanks for stats...and i wonder what is the cost of living and the affordability of it, for example over here one can afford a decent living with minimum wage...the reason i mentioned the minimum wage is because i clarified my position in my previous posts with Jamahir

And let me make myself very clear (in case you miss the point completely) "Western Capitalism" is not part of Islam at all.

Sure, let's take your questions one by one. So the first question related to capitalism and Islam. Capitalism in it's purest sense of the word, ought to thrive in a "free market economy." In a free market economy, in Islam, the wealth is suppose to circulate in the society. Basis of this ethos, is found in businesses that operate in a "Usury Free" lending. Also, in an Islamic Economy, the lender shares the "Capital Risk" with the borrower.

A good example of what Western Capitalism has done, where money lent on interest is consolidated with a debt based economy. For every dollar printed, the United States government pays interest. So for it's $27 trillion in government debt, the American government has only been paying interest, not part of the capital sum borrowed. In turn, they are forced to print more money, which when circulated in the economy, depreciates in value, which is caused by inflationary adjustments that are in turn made due to the fact that the money borrowed is based on interest loans.

This perpetuates the debt cycle and forces not just governments to borrow more, but also businesses to do the same.

Another disease that Westernn Capilatism is infected with, is the disconnect between the borrower and the lender. Where the lender has zero risk in the loan given to the borrower. Be it mortgages, credit cards or financing as far as regular people go. So when the risk for the lender is zero, it in turn allows them to speculate (in crude terms, bet against) against the borrower, in the market. Thereby creating the lopsided environment where the rich become richer and the Middle Class becomes poorer and poorer.

This sort of capitalism (Western Capitalism) is not what Islam teaches. Which is the fundamental reason, Riba (interest loan being just of the many forms that constitutes Riba) is Haram (prohibited) in Islam.

-----------------------------------------

I will address all your points in-sha-Allah, dear brother. Just bare with me.

No problem brother but please don't take the pain to write so much, we agree on a lot more than you think...the OP was about the philosophy of capitalism not western crony capitalism...so much unfortunate bad stuff between us could've been avoided if you clarified what type of capitalism you meant, you could've at least asked me to clarify my position but you got angry. Capitalism as an economic system is part of the Islamic system but it is controlled capitalism, the "free" market, the Price mechanism, freedom of enterprise, the bourgeoisie, the proletariat, protection of their private property, etc etc almost everything is there...

But i agree with you on the rest, as a Muslim I'm totally against riba yes

Capitalism and Communism are outdated smh let's move on from these materialistic ideologies that have harmed humanity than helped

Which economic system do you propose?

New system?

 

[21st Century Vampire]

New system?

Typing error: *which new system?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Typing error: *which new system?

He's being oblivious to the benefits and only focusing on the detriments.

Pretty much everything around is the direct result of capitalism from the simple zipper on your jacket, this PDF forum, and the future SpaceX Starship.

We can all be like the isolated tribes in the Amazon rainforest (who I'm sure are happy) or the astronauts in the ISS.

There is this long debate over should money be thrown at poverty/starvation around the world (in the 1970's it was focused on Africa) or move technology forward (like with the Space Shuttle). You had Liberals on one side crying about helping our fellow man in need vs intellectuals pushing for advancement.

 

[21st Century Vampire]

He's being oblivious to the benefits and only focusing on the detriments.

Pretty much everything around is the direct result of capitalism from the simple zipper on your jacket, this PDF forum, and the future SpaceX Starship.

We can all be like the isolated tribes in the Amazon rainforest (who I'm sure are happy) or the astronauts in the ISS.

There is this long debate over should money be thrown at poverty/starvation around the world (in the 1970's it was focused on Africa) or move technology forward (like with the Space Shuttle). You had Liberals on one side crying about helping our fellow man in need vs intellectuals pushing for advancement.

Was just expecting the classic reddit State capitalism for an answer

 

[fallstuff]

India is probably the most capitalist country in the India yet there is no Indian SpaceX... Why ?

Because every Indian worth his salt goes to USA at the very first chance they get.

 

[jamahir]

Because every Indian worth his salt goes to USA at the very first chance they get.

Well, very few Indians will take the risk of starting something as ambitious as SpaceX. Even those who go to USA will not do so. This is same as not having an Indian Microsoft, QNX, Intel and ARM. Something about a defeatist Indian ( actually South Asian ) psyche which will have to be changed.