How can Pakistan make peace with its neighbours?

[azeemfslbd]

Tum nay Musalmano ka theka liya hoa hay?Should India attack Pakistan then as We treat Hindus and Christians and even Ahmedis much worse then ****.Why do you want to put your leg where it does not belong?Kashmir is much more a regional issue then religional.Thank God our Diplomats dont think like this else we would be fucked up totally isolated.Brother you're a hypocrite in simple words.You want to restrict everything for minorities in islamic countries like ahemdis cant call themselves musims because it offends muslims but you want shanshah/king treatment for muslim minorities in every country?World does not work that way my friend and yes, Ugihr millitants are terror organizations no question asked just as i consider Moist operating in india terrorists.I don't give a **** about some delusional brotherhood.Pakistan's National Interests overweight's everything else.

i guess that in the end our perspectives are different, but i want to make clear i dont support persecution of minorities anywhere including ahmadiyya community of pakistan !! understand brother that i was not trying to change your opinion i was trying to find the reasoning behind ur and Mehru's opinions n sorry if i offended you !!

Wow you live in China and you want to support a terrorist organization in there - Hope the authorities sooner then later.

i dont live here but i make short term visits regularly since last year or so, n about terrorist organizations well... again we have different perspectives on that issue i hope u understand... if it is officially called a terrorist organization than of course i will think twice about supporting uighur freedom movement:: i dont support violence against majority, civilians n minorirty.. that is my viewpoint !!

*EDIT*: to mehru: you are included in my response at the first part of this message

to T-Faz you are included in my response at the second part of this message

 

[azeemfslbd]

How can Pakistan make peace with its neighbours???

Certainly not by insulting neighboring country's foreign ministers and not indulging in undiplomatic ranting against them.
Whatever is the reason one should not forget diplomatic protocols and manners.
Example: latest salvage fired by mr. quereshi on mr.krishna.

may be if SM Krishna could prepare himself better for this IMPORTANT peace talk then things would have been different....... again a kneejerk reaction against pakistan.....


goodnight to everyone !!

 

[AbuSalam]

How can Pakistan make peace with its neighbours???

Certainly not by insulting neighboring country's foreign ministers and not indulging in undiplomatic ranting against them.
Whatever is the reason one should not forget diplomatic protocols and manners.
Example: latest salvage fired by mr. quereshi on mr.krishna.

The points of difference need not be put bluntly and openly for either of the domestic consumptions as the talks between Pak & India were on the major different point of views and reduce those differences. People of both the countries must also laud the efforts and appreciate even a small improvement in the bilateral relations .Every one from PMs to the people must not treat these talks as a cricket series with public running commentaries and political leaders from both sides must restrain in scoring points before their people to remain in the history as great men.

 

[mehru]

i guess that in the end our perspectives are different, but i want to make clear i dont support persecution of minorities anywhere including ahmadiyya community of pakistan !! understand brother that i was not trying to change your opinion i was trying to find the reasoning behind ur and Mehru's opinions n sorry if i offended you !!


i dont live here but i make short term visits regularly since last year or so, n about terrorist organizations well... again we have different perspectives on that issue i hope u understand... if it is officially called a terrorist organization than of course i will think twice about supporting uighur freedom movement:: i dont support violence against majority, civilians n minorirty.. that is my viewpoint !!

*EDIT*: to mehru: you are included in my response at the first part of this message

to T-Faz you are included in my response at the second part of this message

Fair enough. I rest my case.

 

[azeemfslbd]

Fair enough. I rest my case.

Great =) goodnight !!

 

[Guynextdoor]

Assalamu Alaikum I am Azeem, a new member here...

As you all may know, Pakistan doesn't have great relationships with our neighbours... India has always been against us since 1947... the U.S. is influencing Afghanistan to be against Pakistan, on YouTube many Afghans call us dogs etc, and I read a survey documented by a Muslim (not sure of nationality) that 91% of Afghans find Pakistan unfavourable (link: Afghanistan – Truths and Lies).... Iran has close relations with India and i read that they helped India against us in UN meetings/wars etc and Iran criticizes Pakistan for persecution of Shias and terrorist attacks in Iran.... Tajikistan is also helping India with airforce bases.... Sri Lanka the government there is pro-Pakistan but also pro-India.....n China well, you may consider it a friend but i dont because i believe Uighurs should be freed as they r not Chinese or Buddhist or anything like that, like Kashmiris in India and Palestinians.....(i will make another thread for this) Arab countries well we always trust them but only Saudi Arabia help us in wars but even now they have good relations with India

So brothers how do you think we can improve our relations with our close neighbors and make peace?? I hope only Pakistanis will write here and that many write here....


Pakistan Zindabad !!

The resolution of these problems can happen when Pakistan genuinely moves towards a state with a bias towards long term stability- both towards itself as well as others. What do I mean:

a. Ignore Kashmir as a specific, that was just a strategy. Many policy makers in your system before thought that it was possible to solve the 'india problem' by breaking it into several pieces. Kashmir & Khalistan were only strategies to set off that process of disintegration. The fact of a larger unified Indian state was not accepted by them, but probably lot easier to accept as a realty by yur current leaders (therefore realistic movement towards resolution)

b. Even in Afghanistan, your attitude has been to behave like a superior power. Capable of 'giving them freedom from the Soviets', leveragng their soil for 'strategic depth' etc. Accept them as a true and sovereign state and over the long term you'll have a stable relationship.

My two cents.

 

[somebozo]

so brother Patriot, Uighur militants are terrorists? so what is the different between them and Kashmiri freedom fighters?? so Kashmiri freedom fighters are also terrorists is it?? this is what i hate about Pakistan, we say we are proud to be a Muslim country but really we are licking Chinese a$$... the Uighurs MUSLIMS are "terrorists" who are fighting for independence from COMMUNIST china [mainly BUDDHIST/CONFUCIAN/TAOIST] which limits their freedom of religion and china has taken Xinjiang region by force.... is this not a similar case to Kashmir? but no, still according to you Uighur freedom fighters are terrorists... why? because they are fighting against OUR BOSS, CHINA !!!

please... respect yourself, respect the plight of the Uighur people, respect Pakistan, respect Islam... don't create double standards when it comes to such a thing AS THE UMMAH my brother!!!!

EDIT: forgot to answer your question at the end brother.. I will never even think of supporting Taliban because they are not fighting for the better of Muslims' lives but they are making lives of Muslims worse... lemme make it clear... I support foreign Islamic liberation movements against forces that limit practice of Islam... it is the blessings of Allah (s.w.t.) that we can freely practise Islam in Pakistan.. Brother dont u believe other Muslims in less free countries (like Pakistan for Muslims) deserve that degree of privilege/freedom??

You cannot decide a policy based on wether muslims are free to practice or not. Muslim in India are free to practice their religion and so are Kashmiris..so why are we fighting?? The Palestienans are also free to practice their religion too hence we shouldnt be supporting them either.


India is a traditional power and it will remain aligned with many countries due to its historical ties. India was not born on 1947 it had been in existence for thousand of years, it merely gained freedom from Brtish colonial rule where as we are a nation whose presense was nowhere to be found before 1947.

The Ughairs are staunchly anti-Pakistan and so are Tajiks, Afghans and Uzbeks due to soviet legacy. They will continue to side with India and we cant do anything about it to matter how much religion card we play. Pakistan is an idealogical country and its power lies in being a revolutionary. Someone who can stand as a proud model of Muslim achievements, science and technology. The Palestinenans are openly pro-India and probably the most staunch anti-Pakistan ever seen. We need to forget about them.

Our nation was carved out of existing land and people with new identity given the name of "Pakistan"


Turkey used to be a traditional power but doom of ottomans spell and end it to it. Modren day Turkey is a foundation laid by Mustafa Kemal. It would be absolutely ridicolus if Turkey countinues to brag about same ottoman era clout it once held among arabs and muslims.


As long we led the house of innovation, professionalism and achievements in the Islamic world we were able to contain our influence and take the course of events into our favour. However the world politics has changed but we refuse to acknowledge it. Today we are leading in nothing but growing terrorism which happens to come from madrassas gifted to us by our oil rich arab friends. These very people have sidelines themselves and busy building oasis in the dessert while we are left to clean their mess. Shame on us.


The Arabs have a long and strong releation with Indians which predates Islam and we cannot exert force to change it. Pakistan for them is just a disposable man power house.

We need to forget about arabs in our policy. We need to build ourselves strong enough to be able to exert influence on them rather begging them for aid. The Arabs do not need anything from us. We are being their dogs why awarding uneeded protection to their much hated royals families.
While these royal families can keep a face of favoured releations towards us and keep the aid flowing we are rapidly losing on the peoples power side. We are being seen as an incompetent tool which flocks to protection of their corrupt monarchies.

Unfortunately, when we take course of ummah type politics people naturally come to expect us shipping them arms for their freedom struggle. Unable to meet their expections proves us hypocrites in their eyes.

Our natrual alliances lies towards the west..not east.

Unfortunately for 60 years we have failed to take any lessong from history and continue to persue a hopeless ottoman-relic failed logic of "ummah politics" which is gradually turning us very "milltary" centric on the lines of north korea and failed soviet union.

Our power lies not in competing with India millitarily but being a small roboust nation with thriving economy, large representation in world scientific affairs, strong media presence, true democarcy and qualitive millitary edge over quantity which can deal a decisive blow to any offensive incursions.

 

[India Rising]

humanity is the biggest religion in the world. all the religions in the world preach non violence and service for humanity. few people do the wrong interpretation of things for their benefits or they lack knowledge. i would follow this.
1. humanity
2. Nation
3. religion

 

[Spitfighter]

In the perceived absence of any other faction that looked capable of controlling the entire country at the time, why not? There were no associations with terrorism at that time (of the Taliban) nor was there any sign of the direction they would take in terms of ethnic violence and religious intolerance (Bamiyan Buddha's etc.).

Did Pakistan withdraw its support once it was clear what the Taliban had in mind?

Did Pakistan support the Northern Alliance when they began an uprising or did it arm and train the Taliban even further?

Pakistan supported the Taliban for one reason and one reason alone, to control Afghanistan by proxy. Stop beating around the bush.

Of course if a democratically elected GoA can stabilize Afghanistan (which ensures our trade links with the CAR's and stability in our own border areas), and not return to the days of old that I mentioned, then there is little more that Pakistan can ask for in terms of 'Strategic Depth'.

Has Pakistan really come around to the idea of a neutral Afghanistan?

What exactly do you mean by 'days of old', an Afghanistan that has no relations with India or one that has economic and military cooperation with one of the largest economies in the region?

You see it all depends on how Pakistan defines a 'stable' Afghanistan. With India now in the picture, Pakistan will inevitably keep its options open with the Afghan Taliban. Which is why we see reports like this...

BBC News - Pakistani agents 'funding and training Afghan Taliban'

Pakistan can rubbish these claims all it wants on paper, what its really doing is opening up doors for India. We aren't the one's pursuing a 'zero sum' strategy, Pakistan is, the results of which are abundantly clear.

In any case, there's no point discussing this further as we've already been over this on several occasions. I'd just like to see the end result of this war and its impact on Afghanistan and US-Pakistani relations. The way I see it, India will win either way, be it Iran, Afghanistan (or both) or the US.

 

[Spitfighter]

Support for the right of Kashmiris to self-determination has nothing to do with support for proxy groups.

You missed the broader argument being made on the international legitimacy of actively advocating on behalf of the Kashmir and Palestine disputes vs the lack of legitimacy in terms if international advocacy on the other disputes mentioned.

Yes it does when Pakistan uses those proxy groups as means to wage war and counter Indian interests in Kashmir and beyond.

 

[somebozo]

Yes it does when Pakistan uses those proxy groups as means to wage war and counter Indian interests in Kashmir and beyond.

And does India do, Northern Alliance, BLA & MQM. If your intrests are intent on undermining our soverginity then sure as hell we have a right to give you taste of your own medicine. India cannot enjoy unquestion hegemony, not without a fight atleast. Argument for the sake of argument.

Lets not forget Indias propoganda campaign of blatant media lies against Pakistan. A relic of soviet mentality.

 

[Peregrine]

How can Pakistan make peace with its neighbours?
for a sec just image, that how great it would be if Pakistan had a neighbor like Switzerland

 

[su-47]

How can Pakistan make peace with its neighbours?
for a sec just image, that how great it would be if Pakistan had a neighbor like Switzerland

where Minarets are banned? the hardliners in pakistan will be calling for war against the 'enemy'.

fact remains that we cant choose our neighbours. so for better or worse, we are all stuck with each other. we can try to make the best of it like europeans are doing now, or let our egos, prejudices, nationalism, religious sentiment etc fuel more conflict. unfortunately we all seem to be going down the latter path

 

[Pasban]

Iran has close relations with India and i read that they helped India against us in UN meetings/wars etc and Iran criticizes Pakistan for persecution of Shias and terrorist attacks in Iran

Name the wars in which Iran has helped India fight against Pakistan. Also state the anti-Pakistan or Pro-India UN resolutions voted on in favor by Iran. As you say have already read about it, you should be able to state exact clauses and examples.

 

[Nahraf]

Pakistan has damaged its diplomatically by supporting Talibans. We should have supported a government that included all factions after withdrawal Soviet troops. But Pakistani Army wanted a subservient government in Kabul. Even during freedom struggle against Russians the Pakistan Army mishandled Ahmad Shah Massoud. They did not supply him enough weapons since they could not control him.