How can India be BFFs with both Russia and the United States?

[Chinese-Dragon]

Yes! I'm interested in a serious discussion, are you?

Comeback with quantifiable stats showing Sikhs, as you claimed, are a "prime" target.

Short of which will prove my original statement AKA you speak from a place of personal bias.

Please don't tell me the Guardian (British newspaper) is written by me.

The post 9/11 prejudice that menaces American Sikhs | Amardeep Singh - The Guardian

Sikhism in America: community is small and has faced harassment - The Guardian

It is the Indian Sikhs themselves who are making this a big topic around the world, ask them.

The US veteran committing the massacre at the Wisconsin Sikh Temple was only one incident where Indian Sikhs have been attacked in America, out of many. It just happens to be the one with the highest number of casualties.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Please don't tell me the Guardian (British newspaper) is written by me.

It is the Indian Sikhs themselves who are making this a big topic around the world, ask them.

The US veteran committing the massacre at the Wisconsin Sikh Temple was only one incident where Indian Sikhs have been attacked in America, out of many. It just happens to be the one with the highest number of casualties.

{Removed your links as it won't let me post if it contains one}
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Is that your attempt at a serious discussion? citing me two articles vs. actual figures showing it to be a trend?

You have used terms like " prime target", "it's always an Indian Sikh being attacked/killed in America" and "Indians are the biggest targets of racial violence in North America, especially Indian Sikhs".

None of the articles 'you read' lend it to be a trend or make it "absolutes" like you have claimed.

You have a rank of think tank here, while I have it in the real world. In the real world when when we make absolute statements as members of reputable 'Think Tanks', we have to back it with actual statistics and studies.

I'm still waiting for you prove your absolutes.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

{Removed your links as it won't let me post if it contains one}
---------

Is that your attempt at a serious discussion? citing me two articles vs. actual figures showing it to be a trend?

You have used terms like " prime target", "it's always an Indian Sikh being attacked/killed in America" and "Indians are the biggest targets of racial violence in North America, especially Indian Sikhs".

None of the articles 'you read' lend it to be a trend or make it "absolutes" like you have claimed.

You have a rank of think tank here, while I have it in the real world. In the real world when when we make absolute statements as members of reputable 'Think Tanks', we have to back it with actual statistics and studies.

I'm still waiting for you prove your absolutes.

What a joke, arguing over semantics.

Talking to you is a waste of time, even Indian Sikhs themselves are the ones saying they have been targeted in America, and we see it on the international news all the time.

Hell a US army veteran even shot up an Indian Sikh temple in Wisconsin, and that's only one incident.

If you want to put your fingers in your ears and pretend otherwise, go ahead.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

What a joke, arguing over semantics.

Talking to you is a waste of time, even Indian Sikhs themselves are the ones saying they have been targeted in America, and we see it on the international news all the time.

Hell a US veteran even shot up an Indian Sikh temple in Wisconsin, and that's only one incident.

If you want to put your fingers in your ears and pretend otherwise, go ahead. Just be careful too.

So in other words, after you made your absolute assertions. When challenged, cry " What a joke, arguing over semantics...Talking to you is a waste of time"

I thought so.

Maybe I can do the same and say Chinese kill all its minorities and destroy every religious group and houses of worship, coming from the news articles 'I read'.

Good day to you.

 

[Joeblow]

Thank you for this perspective sir, very well put indeed. I would just like to add however, that the US, like no other power India interacts with (and for good reason I suppose being the sole super power) seems interested purely in dealing with India on their terms.I have read a lot on this topic and watch through hours of seminars and it wherever India has worked off a script not drafted by the US or not worked on a matter exactly how the US would like then ties become "strained" and the US side starts blaming India for the existence of certain "structural" issues that are preventing closer ties.

India is certainly unique and unlike any other nation the US has engaged with until now and perhaps the US needs to reformulate the way it conducts itself with India because it seems there is a glass ceiling to the ties between India and the US and it was reached in 2008/9 and since then the ties really have stalled.

What would you define as a great relationship between India and the US? I agree with @US_statedept_retired that the U.S. has been quite accommodating about India's mood swings. India didn't support the U.S. when Russia occupied Crimea. The fact that it was a Russian majority is secondary. What they did was against international law and goes against India's stance on Kashmir. Yet the US did not throw it in India's face by bringing up Kashmir. India doesn't make a stand on a lot international issues, US does. When a self-involved, eager Indian reporter asks the US spokesman what he thinks of India's stand that is a complete 180 from the US stance, what is he supposed to say?? That it is ok because it's India? The nuclear deals green lighted by the U.S. despite India not be a signatory to the NPT speaks volumes of the US's commitment to this relationship. What commitment is India making to the U.S. in return? We can't even get support on basic things that most like minded people agree on, like ISIS.

India is a giant market and it is only going to get bigger as Indians get richer. However, how much do you expect in return for access to this market? You cannot have true relationship beyond a buyer seller relationship if you don't have anything else to offer.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

So in other words, after you made your absolute assertions. When challenged, cry " What a joke, arguing over semantics...Talking to you is a waste of time"

I thought so.

Maybe I can do the same and say Chinese kill all its minorities and destroy every religious group and houses of worship, coming from the news articles 'I read'.

Good day to you.

Find me an example of a Chinese Army veteran walking into a Sikh temple and killing everyone he can see.

No, it was a US army veteran, in America.

And he scoped out his target multiple times before the attack, and it says "Sikh temple" at the door, so he knew what it was.

 

[Joeblow]

Well isn't it true that Indians are the biggest targets of racial violence in North America, especially Indian Sikhs? There was even a US veteran who attacked a Sikh temple in Wisconsin (America) a while back, killing large numbers of people.

About Australians targeting Indians I don't know, maybe that was just media hysteria.

It does bug me when Indians act racist towards Chinese on this forum (calling us dirty chinkies), even when they are discriminated against the most in the West and in the Gulf where many of them live.

Using isolated examples to define the condition of an entire nation is as racist as the the name calling on PDF that you find so objectionable

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Find me an example of a Chinese Army veteran walking into a Sikh temple and killing everyone he can see.

No, it was a US army veteran, in America.

And he scoped out his target multiple times before the attack, and it says "Sikh temple" at the door, so he knew what it was.

Unlike some white supremacist who happened to be thrown out of our military prior to his heinous act. I can find you examples of your current state army and police, with complete and ' absolute' blessing from the Chinese government, carrying out atrocities against religious minorities.

Your banning of the burqa has been reported in these forums. Your banning of Muslims from praying has been reported here. Now-

Since I cannot post links here. Simply google these words '

Christians form human shield around church in 'China's Jerusalem' after demolition threat"

 

[Jayanta]

That is not possible anymore, days india milking both side are long gone. In fact, india seems to choose the side already, didn't you get the hint? Washington did get the memo though.

India has been BFF with two country namely Israel and Iran which has a bitter rivalry than US-USSR....so India has the first hand experience in tackling it.

 

[Jayanta]

Well isn't it true that Indians are the biggest targets of racial violence in North America, especially Indian Sikhs? There was even a US veteran who attacked a Sikh temple in Wisconsin (America) a while back, killing large numbers of people.

About Australians targeting Indians I don't know, maybe that was just media hysteria.

It does bug me when Indians act racist towards Chinese on this forum (calling us dirty chinkies), even when they are discriminated against the most in the West and in the Gulf where many of them live.

Ya they are....because the white scums cannot differentiate between a Shikh and an Arab. Their intention is to hurt an Arab and end up attacking Shikhs....now rest is upto you to decide.

 

[MilSpec]

Well isn't it true that Indians are the biggest targets of racial violence in North America, especially Indian Sikhs? There was even a US veteran who attacked a Sikh temple in Wisconsin (America) a while back, killing large numbers of people.

Wow, Seems like you re towing the same line by clubbing select few racist numb-nuts as the "west", quite comfortably forgetting people of Indian origin in the whitehouse to the senate to microsoft, google, Nasa and the even the US army. As far as racist violence, please do learn about African americans in america before claiming Indians as the most targeted group in USA, but then again I dont think your comment had anything to do with fact.

But Ultimately it is Sikhs who are suffering... In India it hardly matters what was the intentions of whites. What actual matters is that Sikhs were attacked. These attacks are not good for the health of Indo-western relationships

Not white's or any demographics, it doings of deranged racist scumbags... which is conveniently dubbed as the "Western populace" by our esteemed members here...

That's what I see in the news, it's always an Indian Sikh being attacked/killed in America.

I'm sure America is officially good to immigrants, since if they have American citizenship then they are Americans too.

But some groups are targeted more than others, that's the reality.

as far a reality is concerned good old wiki might be a good place to start.... And by the when did racism become the standard for standing of one's community in a society???

Racism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Abingdonboy]

What a joke, arguing over semantics.

Talking to you is a waste of time, even Indian Sikhs themselves are the ones saying they have been targeted in America, and we see it on the international news all the time.

Hell a US army veteran even shot up an Indian Sikh temple in Wisconsin, and that's only one incident.

If you want to put your fingers in your ears and pretend otherwise, go ahead.

Find me an example of a Chinese Army veteran walking into a Sikh temple and killing everyone he can see.

No, it was a US army veteran, in America.

And he scoped out his target multiple times before the attack, and it says "Sikh temple" at the door, so he knew what it was.

Sir the perpetrator of the Gurdwara attack (Wade Michael Page) themselves claimed they targeted this place because they believed this was an Islamic building and the people there were Muslims. The fool probably didn't even know Sikhism was a religion. And this is the same for the vast, vast majority of Americans and this ignorance is responsible for the disproportionate attacks on Sikhs in America because the image of Bin Laden with a turban is now the template of what a Muslim (and an extreme one at that) looks like. Ask the majority of Americans what religion a Sikh with a Turban is and they will likely reply "Muslim". I have a lot of family in American and I know this to be true, heck it's even partially true in Canada and to some extent in the UK (but not so much).

Indeed there are very blatant differences between a Gurdwara and Mosque and many distinguishing features of a Gurdwara that points out it is clearly a Sikh building, do we really expect a white supremacist scumbag who is willing to walk into a building and kill innocents of any faith to be aware of such things? He was already ignorant to the point of stupidity so why is it a surprise he couldn't differentiate between Sikhs and Muslims?

If you really want to see which minorities have it bad in America then, as @sandy_3126 points out, look to the black minority in the US. Sikhs may have been on the receiving end of more than their fair share of pain but it is nothing compared to the relentless subjugation, discrimination, humiliation and persecution of the black community in America. Whereas Sikhs, like the wider Indian-American community in America, are one of the wealthiest and highest achieving communities in America, the black community (that have been in America for hundreds of years) come at the bottom of almost every list one can think of measuring success. This is before we even start talking about how they are treated by law enforcement in the US- I can't think of a similar case involving Sikhs in the US to the Mike Brown or Eric Gardner cases where the American police have killed unarmed black men with complete impunity.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Sir the perpetrator of the Gurdwara attack (Wade Michael Page) themselves claimed they targeted this place because they believed this was an Islamic building and the people there were Muslims. The fool probably didn't even know Sikhism was a religion. And this is the same for the vast, vast majority of Americans and this ignorance is responsible for the disproportionate attacks on Sikhs in America because the image of Bin Laden with a turban is now the template of what a Muslim (and an extreme one at that) looks like. Ask the majority of Americans what religion a Sikh with a Turban is and they will likely reply "Muslim". I have a lot of family in American and I know this to be true, heck it's even partially true in Canada and to some extent in the UK (but not so much).

Indeed there are very blatant differences between a Gurdwara and Mosque and many distinguishing features of a Gurdwara that points out it is clearly a Sikh building, do we really expect a white supremacist scumbag who is willing to walk into a building and kill innocents of any faith to be aware of such things? He was already ignorant to the point of stupidity so why is it a surprise he couldn't differentiate between Sikhs and Muslims?

If you really want to see which minorities have it bad in America then, as @sandy_3126 points out, look to the black minority in the US. Sikhs may have been on the receiving end of more than their fair share of pain but it is nothing compared to the relentless subjugation, discrimination, humiliation and persecution of the black community in America. Whereas Sikhs, like the wider Indian-American community in America, are one of the wealthiest and highest achieving communities in America, the black community (that have been in America for hundreds of years) come at the bottom of almost every list one can think of measuring success. This is before we even start talking about how they are treated by law enforcement in the US- I can't think of a similar case involving Sikhs in the US to the Mike Brown or Eric Gardner cases where the American police have killed unarmed black men with complete impunity.

I have always found it easy to distinguish between a Sikh turban and a Muslim one.

The Sikh one is what Manmohan Singh wears, and it is folded completely differently.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I have always found it easy to distinguish between a Sikh turban and a Muslim one.

The Sikh one is what Manmohan Singh wears, and it is folded completely differently.

Well sir you are clearly more astute than many Americans.....

 

[Parul]

I have always found it easy to distinguish between a Sikh turban and a Muslim one.

The Sikh one is what Manmohan Singh wears, and it is folded completely differently.

Because you don't see everything from the lenses of Religion. However, those whose sees it, doesn't.

Last September, I was in US of A. I didn't experience any Racism intended towards Sikhs.