Hope US considers Pakistan 'ally from heaven', says Sartaj Aziz in Washington

[Taimoor Khan]

Bro,

Create friends; not enemies.

Friendship is based on a key ingredient, mutual respect.

 

[litman]

well we insult politicians to be shoe shiners of the americas but we have to admit that the biggest shoe shiner of the america was the musharaf who even changed the curriculum and reported to his master "bush" that we have done the necessary changes.

pak will start improving the day we will abandon US. if it is impossible then we should never dream of better life. you can't live happily with devil on your start

 

[LeGenD]

Friendship is based on a key ingredient, mutual respect.

Bro, to accomplish this, both countries need to strengthen their people-to-people level contact. This makes difference.

Pak-US relationship is largely a governmental affair, unfortunately.

well we insult politicians to be shoe shiners of the americas but we have to admit that the biggest shoe shiner of the america was the musharaf who even changed the curriculum and reported to his master "bush" that we have done the necessary changes.

pak will start improving the day we will abandon US. if it is impossible then we should never dream of better life. you can't live happily with devil on your start

Bro,

Pakistan actually prospered during the era of Musharraf. Even common man felt difference this era.

Tell me! Terrorists were important or Pak-US relationship?

Abandoning US is not the way forward. This will create massive problems for Pakistan in the long-run and India will gain tremendously from this disconnect.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Bro, to accomplish this, both countries need to strengthen their people-to-people level contact. This makes difference.

Pak-US relationship is largely a governmental affair, unfortunately.


Bro,

Pakistan actually prospered during the era of Musharraf. Even common man felt difference this era.

Tell me! Terrorists were important or Pak-US relationship?

Abandoning US is not the way forward. This will create massive problems for Pakistan in the long-run and India will gain tremendously from this disconnect.

Ask the people of Pakistan on the street as to what they think of US of A, you will get the answer. I am not even talking about government to government relations. When the talks are about strategic partnership between nation, America is hell bend on trying to rollback our nuke program, effectively telling us that they are propping our mortal enemy India in the region and asking us to live under the shadows of India.
This is a unworkable relationship which the sooner comes to it logical end the better. Time is a precious commodity which is being lost in trying to revive a dead horse.

 

[rockstar08]

US is like " Muhallay ki Khaala " , she wants to know everything about everyone .. want to put her nose in everyone's business , listen to others in secret and put gasoline in fire , create fights in houses ...
US is technically the perfect Khaala of the world

 

[litman]

Bro, to accomplish this, both countries need to strengthen their people-to-people level contact. This makes difference.

Pak-US relationship is largely a governmental affair, unfortunately.


Bro,

Pakistan actually prospered during the era of Musharraf. Even common man felt difference this era.

Tell me! Terrorists were important or Pak-US relationship?

Abandoning US is not the way forward. This will create massive problems for Pakistan in the long-run and India will gain tremendously from this disconnect.

yes and those terrorists were called as mujahidins by the previous military and civil leadership.

 

[LeGenD]

yes and those terrorists were called as mujahidins by the previous military and civil leadership.

Bro,

What they were doing in the recent years, mattered. What they did in the past, is irrelevant.

Al-Qaeda network was involved in conducting terrorist attacks around the world and Taliban was sheltering it.

Pervez Musharraf attempted to reason with the (late) Taliban leader Mullah Omar to dismantle Al-Qaeda network and hand over Osama Bin Laden to the US, but to no avail.

Ask the people of Pakistan on the street as to what they think of US of A, you will get the answer. I am not even talking about government to government relations. When the talks are about strategic partnership between nation, America is hell bend on trying to rollback our nuke program, effectively telling us that they are propping our mortal enemy India in the region and asking us to live under the shadows of India.
This is a unworkable relationship which the sooner comes to it logical end the better. Time is a precious commodity which is being lost in trying to revive a dead horse.

Bro,

Some Pakistani individuals perceive US favorably and some unfavorably. No rocket science here.

However, watch the scene when US decides to issue green cards to a large number of Pakistani people. All of the green cards will be sold in a day or two. Mark my words.

US never attempted to rollback Pakistan's nuclear program. If this was the scenario then Pakistan would not have become a nuclear power. American politicians are simply concerned about the 'rate of growth' of nuclear weapons in the subcontinent and Pakistan is leading this race.

Pakistan have developed over a hundred nuclear weapons so far. Do we really need more? Time to focus on economic prosperity and development.

 

[Mrc]

friends from heaven? that's why they want us to cut down on our nuclear weapons?

surcharge Aziz is joking perhaps....

US some how manages to see Pakistan as a threat.......

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Bro,

What they were doing in the recent years, mattered. What they did in the past, is irrelevant.

Al-Qaeda network was involved in conducting terrorist attacks around the world and Taliban was sheltering it.

Pervez Musharraf attempted to reason with the (late) Taliban leader Mullah Omar to dismantle Al-Qaeda network and hand over Osama Bin Laden to the US, but to no avail.


Bro,

Some Pakistani individuals perceive US favorably and some unfavorably. No rocket science here.

However, watch the scene when US decides to issue green cards to a large number of Pakistani people. All of the green cards will be sold in a day or two. Mark my words.

US never attempted to rollback Pakistan's nuclear program. If this was the scenario then Pakistan would not have become a nuclear power. American politicians are simply concerned about the 'rate of growth' of nuclear weapons in the subcontinent and Pakistan is leading this race.

Pakistan have developed over a hundred nuclear weapons so far. Do we really need more? Time to focus on economic prosperity and development.

I don't know which planet you are living but overwhelming majority of Pakistanis hold very negative views about USA. Let us not question the wisdom of the custodians who are very meticulously and jealously guarding and developing our strategic programs, as to why they are increasing the number of nukes. TRUST THEM. Perhaps the American nuke deal to our mortal enemy India and in return India open access to fissile material to build more nukes maybe the reason why Pakistan is responding in kind. Lastly let's not link country national security matters with economic development. Improve governance, reduce corruption and things will improve dramatically. Nukes are not related to the economic well being of Pakistan.

 

[litman]

Bro,

What they were doing in the recent years, mattered. What they did in the past, is irrelevant.

Al-Qaeda network was involved in conducting terrorist attacks around the world and Taliban was sheltering it.

Pervez Musharraf attempted to reason with the (late) Taliban leader Mullah Omar to dismantle Al-Qaeda network and hand over Osama Bin Laden to the US, but to no avail.

it matters what they and you did in past. you just can't turn your back to your allies in a day. you trained them in the name of jihad and motivated them and then you suddenly term them as terrorists. what the motivated ,trained mob will do to you? there was a discussion about this issue in 11th hour after the BKU incident and the two neutral analysts simply pointed the flawed policy of the military in the afghan war and after the 9/11. there was some brigadier who was made speechless.
we handed over the bases to americans, provided them the logistics and drones were secretly placed on the pak bases and musharraf lied to the nation but then his lies were exposed. we are still enjoying the fruit of what musharraf did with this country.

 

[LeGenD]

I don't know which planet you are living but overwhelming majority of Pakistanis hold very negative views about USA.

I suppose that your circle of contact doesn't encompasses entire Pakistan, right?

People may talk negatively about the US sometimes (even I do) but this doesn't means that most are not willing to live in the US (should the opportunity arise) or wish for end of Pak-US relationship.

Let us not question the wisdom of the custodians who are very meticulously and jealously guarding and developing our strategic programs, as to why they are increasing the number of nukes. TRUST THEM.

I don't think that any patriotic Pakistani have a problem with the country having nukes. However, point of contention is that "how many" do we really need? Nukes cost money to maintain and build; they are not free.

Perhaps the American nuke deal to our mortal enemy India and in return India open access to fissile material to build more nukes maybe the reason why Pakistan is responding in kind.

India appeals to the US in a different way then Pakistan. India is a huge market and a rival of China in the region.

Pakistan is an ally of China and not a huge market. Do the math.

Lastly let's not link country national security matters with economic development. Improve governance, reduce corruption and things will improve dramatically. Nukes are not related to the economic well being of Pakistan.

Really?

What do you think the "defense budget" is about? (Hint: funding of national security)

The more nukes you build, the more they add to the cost of maintaining them. Pakistan's defense budget have significantly increased in recent years, FYI (1 billion USD allocated additionally for yearly basis).

Pakistan have developed sufficient numbers of nukes to safeguard itself from regional threats. No need to build more.

We have yet to build a new dam but we are busy building nukes irrespective of facing a massive energy shortfall.

Priority should be development and economic prosperity now.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I suppose that your circle of contact doesn't encompasses entire Pakistan, right?

People may talk negatively about the US sometimes (even I do) but this doesn't means that most are not willing to live in the US (should the opportunity arise) or wish for end of Pak-US relationship.


I don't think that any patriotic Pakistani have a problem with the country having nukes. However, point of contention is that "how many" do we really need? Nukes cost money to maintain and build; they are not free.


India appeals to the US in a different way then Pakistan. India is a huge market and a rival of China in the region.

Pakistan is an ally of China and not a huge market. Do the math.


Really?

What do you think the "defense budget" is about? (Hint: funding of national security)

The more nukes you build, the more they add to the cost of maintaining them. Pakistan's defense budget have significantly increased in recent years, FYI (1 billion USD allocated additionally for yearly basis).

Pakistan have developed sufficient numbers of nukes to safeguard itself from regional threats. No need to build more.

We have yet to build a new dam but we are busy building nukes irrespective of facing a massive energy shortfall.

Priority should be development and economic prosperity now.

What is the definition of overwhelming majority in your dictionary?

There are many Syrian refugees who are trying to get to those countries who are actually responsible for their present misery, plainly due to economical reasons. What your argument about Green card to do with the perception about America?

You ask "how many". Again I would say trust our custodians. We didn't choose this path to nuclear road out of gaining status symbol or power projection. It was imposed upon us. You are giving impression as you don't trust our strategic planners.

India appeal to America and it's justifications are of no use to me as Pakistani. I only see strong India as a threat to Pakistan's national security. Whoever is propping India up is doing no favours to Pakistan.

Our defence budget is not solely for nukes it covers all the three services. And considering the threats to our state and all the proxy wars that forigen powers are indulging in our territory in guise of wot, the defence budget is really meager. Your argument is non starter, or shall I say in wrong pretext. When you got politicians who can easily qualify to be the richest people on the planet, the recovery of I'll gotten money alone can solve majorit of our financial problems.

 

[LeGenD]

it matters what they and you did in past. you just can't turn your back to your allies in a day. you trained them in the name of jihad and motivated them and then you suddenly term them as terrorists. what the motivated ,trained mob will do to you? there was a discussion about this issue in 11th hour after the BKU incident and the two neutral analysts simply pointed the flawed policy of the military in the afghan war and after the 9/11. there was some brigadier who was made speechless.
we handed over the bases to americans, provided them the logistics and drones were secretly placed on the pak bases and musharraf lied to the nation but then his lies were exposed. we are still enjoying the fruit of what musharraf did with this country.

I have said it before and I will say it again; US (and) Pakistan should have stayed away from Afghan politics. But the deed is done and there is no easy way out of it.

Anyways;

The so-called mujahideen represented a coalition of different Afghan and foreign militant factions (including Taliban).

After the communist forces were defeated/routed from the country, the mujahideen coalition also fell apart and former allies turned their guns towards each other for supremacy and control of territory instead of laying down their weapons and prioritizing rebuilding of the nation. The end result was significant regional instability.

Eventually; some like-minded [Afghan] militant factions banded together to formulate a greater Taliban movement. In response, some rival [Afghan] militant factions did the same by formulating the Northern Alliance. Taliban movement managed to expand its reach and influence over a large part of Afghanistan (formed a government as well) but Northern Alliance continued to maintain its foothold in the northern areas, and the civil war took a new turn but continued.

The [foreign] militant factions banded together to formulate Al-Qaeda network and began to target American interests in the Middle East and even conducted terrorist attacks on the American soil. Al-Qaeda network continued to utilize Afghanistan as a staging ground for its operations and finding new recruits.

Problem was that the Taliban-led government continued to shelter Al-Qaeda network and did nothing to stop its [global] terrorist activities. This led to a diplomatic feud between the US and Taliban and 9/11 event was the final nail in the coffin.

US perceived Al-Qaeda network as an enemy entity because of its terrorist activities and Anti-American politics.

Taliban have been a regional phenomenon and was not the primary target. Taliban was targeted for not accepting American demands after the 9/11 event.

Pervez Musharraf had no choice but to cooperate with the US after 9/11 event. Taliban and Al-Qaeda network were secondary concerns. Pakistan's safety was the primary concern.

 

[litman]

@LeGenD.
so called mujahideen? they were heroes when they kicked USSR out of afghanistan. they were heroes when they were sent to kashmir. they were heroes when they formed a relatively stable pro pak govt in afghanistan and suddenly they become terrorists and now you are calling them so called mujahideen? do you and our national leaders know the meaning of hypocrisy? as far as the americans are concerned their president is actually personification of devil. they were against alqaida in afghainstan and are supporting them against Assad in syria. they told massive lies to the whole world regarding the iraq's WMDs.

the sensible approach is always to admit your own mistakes . most of the guys on PDF think that our military planning has always been the best while our politicians are solely responsible for our miseries. well our politicians are the greatest enemies of pak, military is better but not far behind. they have done ample blunders since 62 to 2014. as far as the corruption and selfishness is concerned no one is an exception.

 

[Kompromat]

US never reached out to Pakistanis it always reached out to our 300 odd elite families to control us hence US is widely hated in Pakistan for its foreign policy. US needs to learn to change its policies, invest in Pakistani youth instead and see the relationship grow.

The USA needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs us. We both need to do a better job of building relations with each other and my country especially, needs to enlarge it's focus beyond just security concerns to economic development, trade, etc.