Hong Kong’s small flats ‘to get even smaller’, hitting quality of life

[jhungary]

We only rented when I grew up in HK....the property prices were crazy bad (yep for the reasons you mention)...and the cost whether buy/rent was quite abominable to what you get.

We moved to Singapore in 98 and it was like an Eden in comparison (Singapore already had decades heritage in their well managed HDB and it has cross over benefit to private prop market too from consumer side).

HK definitely need to do something, but then there is the whole concept of how much intervention you want to do and set precedent in a free market (Singapore CPF management for social welfare account also comes to mind)....I guess it boils down to how much threshold HK average people have for this inside, esp if they comparing to other places/cities over time. Their bargaining power versus the power/finance brokers in HK needs to be utilised more I think.

Being relatively rich in Hong Kong (back then we have 3 apartments in Hong Kong) We did not suffer what most people do, even now, we have no one in Hong Kong but I still have an apartment co-owned with my brother and sister and my brother have own his own apartment in sham shui po.

Let's look at those home. My mother bought the one in Tuen Mun now we had inherited some 20 years ago for about HKD $950k, 20 years later, it worth around 4 millions now....And that is a 780 sq ft villa which we also own the roof top complex.

My brother condo in Sham Shui Po bought around HKD 2.1 mil around 9 years ago, and it worth a little over doubling at HKD $5 mil today if he choose to sell it.

My mother used to own a 380 sq ft apartment in Shek Kep Mei and she bought it in the 70s or 80s (I forgot) for around 100k and she sold it in 1997 for HKD $1.2 millions, today, it worth over HKD$7 millions.

The problem is not because of whether or not Hong Kong have enough land to develop, they do, they just didn't, I think the problem is Hong Kong is not well defined urbanize and not having a really good development planning. Plus you get an influx of Mainland Chinese Immigrant (you are talking about 2 millions people in just 15 years on a 7 millions population) Everything in Hong Kong is just exploded.

If you want to compare what you can get correspondently.

For 5 millions HKD or (800,000AUD or 720,000 USD) I can get a nice house with 3 bed and 2 bath around 330 sq meters (2900 sq ft) lot in any major city in Australia, or a nice 3000 ft complex in suburban US city, or a clamp apartment (still over 1000 sq ft) in major US City.

 

[Mista]

It must suck for the average worker in Hong Kong to slave away at his job for decades only to pay off a mortgage for his 300sq feet apartment. Essentially he gave his entire life savings to real estate developers, who are laughing all the way to the bank.

They are lucky if they can afford the downpayment, because at least they have ownership. Some may have to rent all the way if they can't afford the downpayment.

Overinflated housing prices drives down consumer purchasing power, and unfortunately this is also becoming problematic in China as well.

That's partially because the local governments depend on land sales to fund infrastructure expenditures, similar to the HK model. And of course, the developers and speculators.

I've always maintained that housing is for accommodation, not investment.

There has to be a balance. But I agree that if one have to give way, accommodation should be the priority.

As long as you allow people the FREEDOM -- and I know that word is difficult for you to understand -- to rent out the things they own, including houses/apartments, people will see houses/apartments as investments and avenues of exploitation.

The solution? Force owners to live in where they purchased. Why not go further? Price controls.

Hey...Go back to the communist days.

You're quite the Republican, aren't you? FREEDOM!!!1! Government intervention? That's COMMUNISM!!! Guns are basic rights which Americans are entitled to!

 

[bbccdd1470]

My mother bought the one in Tuen Mun now we had inherited some 20 years ago for about HKD $950k, 20 years later, it worth around 4 millions now

A 780 sq ft villa that costs only HKD 4 millions is underprice, unless the location is on the remote area. Normally any apartment in HK around 500sq fts cost about HKD 7.5 millions, 15k per sq ft is a normal range. But it really depends on the location.

My mother used to own a 380 sq ft apartment in Shek Kep Mei and she bought it in the 70s or 80s (I forgot) for around 100k and she sold it in 1997 for HKD $1.2 millions, today, it worth over HKD$7 millions.

My grandma also had brought two apartments around 500sq ft, the old Chinese one without elevator, in the 70s at Causeway bay, my Uncles sold both of them in 2016 to a Corporation and that costed around 20 millions each. The housing price in HK is very crazy. If you already own an apartment and have a stable job, you will be fine. But if not, you will work like a slave of your entire life for a single apartment.

 

[jhungary]

A 780 sq ft villa that costs only HKD 4 millions is underprice, unless the location is on the remote area. Normally any apartment in HK around 500sq fts cost about HKD 7.5 millions, 15k per sq ft is a normal range. But it really depends on the location.

It's a Tuen Mun 村屋, the one that only allotted to NT "Aboriginal", since we are not one of the aboriginal, we can only sell them with a discount price back to the villager. You can sell them for 10 millions if you are an aboriginal and willing to pay the gap.

My grandma also had brought two apartments around 500sq ft, the old Chinese one without elevator, in the 70s at Causeway bay, my Uncles sold both of them in 2016 to a Corporation and that costed around 20 millions each. The housing price in HK is very crazy. If you already own an apartment and have a stable job, you will be fine. But if not, you will work like a slave of your entire life for a single apartment.

唐樓 worth a lot, if they are marked for "redevelopment" my grand mother have one in Mong Kok, it's about 1000 sq ft and developer is paying them 13 millions to buy them off and they are willing to allocate my aunt (who still live there) with a flat they are going to build on.

And they pay crazy price if you have a house in Hong Kong Island.

It's the story in Hong Kong, if you have a house, or 上岸 as we know, you are basically set for life and you don't have to worry about a lot of thing, you don't have to own it yourself, just need to be one of the family member. But the road to get a house is almost impossible for almost every average Hong Konger, unless you already have a house/flat/apartment so you don't have to pay rent, otherwise it is just a dream

 

[bbccdd1470]

It's a Tuen Mun 村屋, the one that only allotted to NT "Aboriginal", since we are not one of the aboriginal, we can only sell them with a discount price back to the villager. You can sell them for 10 millions if you are an aboriginal and willing to pay the gap.



唐樓 worth a lot, if they are marked for "redevelopment" my grand mother have one in Mong Kok, it's about 1000 sq ft and developer is paying them 13 millions to buy them off and they are willing to allocate my aunt (who still live there) with a flat they are going to build on.

And they pay crazy price if you have a house in Hong Kong Island.

It's the story in Hong Kong, if you have a house, or 上岸 as we know, you are basically set for life and you don't have to worry about a lot of thing, you don't have to own it yourself, just need to be one of the family member. But the road to get a house is almost impossible for almost every average Hong Konger, unless you already have a house/flat/apartment so you don't have to pay rent, otherwise it is just a dream

Very true, I'm lucky because of my family. I have alots of friends work really hard for an apartment, where they either work like a slave or wait for a public housing. Most of young people have to rely on their parent to pay their down payment. You mother was one of the smart people in the old day to invest in the property, since buying property was relatively cheap at that time and the fact was not many people brought apartment in the 70s until the rising housing price in the late 80s to 90s.

 

[gambit]

You're quite the Republican, aren't you? FREEDOM!!!1! Government intervention? That's COMMUNISM!!! Guns are basic rights which Americans are entitled to!

And you are quite the commie, aren't you?

 

[Mista]

And you are quite the commie, aren't you?

To hardcore Republicans like you, maybe. I mean Bernie Sanders is also a commie, isn't he?

 

[gambit]

To hardcore Republicans like you, maybe. I mean Bernie Sanders is also a commie, isn't he?

One does not need to be a Republican to at least be suspicious of anyone advocating governmental intrusions into every minutiae of daily lives.

As for Bernie Sanders? Of course he is a Marxist/communist. The latest news is that he proposes that the government guarantees everyone a $15/hr job. That is what communists did.

 

[Mista]

A 780 sq ft villa that costs only HKD 4 millions is underprice, unless the location is on the remote area. Normally any apartment in HK around 500sq fts cost about HKD 7.5 millions, 15k per sq ft is a normal range. But it really depends on the location.

Are the prices in the New Territories reasonable for the average HKer?

 

[bbccdd1470]

Are the prices in the New Territories reasonable for the average HKer?

New Territories is very big and it's consisted over 85% of HK territory. Many large satellite cities are there and the housing prices in there are not cheap.

 

[Mista]

New Territories is very big and it's consisted over 85% of HK territory. Many large satellite cities are there and the housing prices in there are not cheap.

So it's not cheap enough for average HKers to consider commuting from there?

 

[bbccdd1470]

So it's not cheap enough for average HKers to consider commuting from there?

Every apartment in HK is not cheap, but it doesn't mean all of us can't afford it. Many HK people can still able to buy an apartment, but it takes time, efforts for saving money and with family's support. Most of the middle class parents today pay the down payment for their Children, and the children just pay the loan back. Usually they looks for a smaller apartment first, then exchange for a larger apartment later.
But for people who don't have a rich parent and don't earn much, then they have to live with their parent for either saving enough money or wait for a public housing. Usually their parent already live in a public housing due to their financial status, so they can live with them until the parent are pass away. After that, they will either stay or transfer to another public apartment. The problem is some young people from this category don't want to live with their parent, and the rent itself takes a huge sum of their income, which made them never have enough money to save.
The one with most trouble is the family that doesn't own a property or live in a public housing, usually they are poor immigrants or old person that never marry, or the family that is not poor enough to apply the public housing. They are the one that needs the most government's help. As Jhungary already pointed out, your whole family must at least have money left to save in order to buy an apartment. Otherwise, it is just a dream.

 

[Mista]

Every apartment in HK is not cheap, but it doesn't mean all of us can't afford it. Many HK people can still able to buy an apartment, but it takes time, efforts for saving money and with family's support. Most of the middle class parents today pay the down payment for their Children, and the children just pay the loan back. Usually they looks for a smaller apartment first, then exchange for a larger apartment later.
But for people who don't have a rich parent and don't earn much, then they have to live with their parent for either saving enough money or wait for a public housing. Usually their parent already live in a public housing due to their financial status, so they can live with them until the parent are pass away. After that, they will either stay or transfer to another public apartment. The problem is some young people from this category don't want to live with their parent, and the rent itself takes a huge sum of their income, which made them never have enough money to save.
The one with most trouble is the family that doesn't own a property or live in a public housing, usually they are poor immigrants or old person that never marry, or the family that is not poor enough to apply the public housing. They are the one that needs the most government's help. As Jhungary already pointed out, your whole family must at least have money left to save in order to buy an apartment. Otherwise, it is just a dream.

I see. I was wondering whether HKers are willing to endure longer commuting times with cheaper housing in areas further away, but it seems like these areas are quite out of reach too unless your family can help provide some assistance.

Can public housing in HK be sold to a third party and therefore making a profit?

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

As for Bernie Sanders? Of course he is a Marxist/communist. The latest news is that he proposes that the government guarantees everyone a $15/hr job. That is what communists did.

Nope, actually, communists advocate the abolition of wage labour.

 

[gambit]

Nope, actually, communists advocate the abolition of wage labour.

What Sanders want is just one step towards that goal. It is about having more and more governmental intrusions into every aspects of daily lives. If the government can force you to pay me X wage, then the government can force you to pay me nothing. Marxism is the goal and communism is the political expression/executor of the means to achieve that goal.