Hong Kong protesters oppose "propaganda" education plan

[gambit]

here comes the white worshipper's round of BS here!

Awwww...The typical racist Chinese revealed himself...

what does the navy seal's new book tell you? what does the american propaganda mouth pieces like the "white house secretary"; "the pentagon press secretary" tell you!? who is victoria nuland?

And what does ministerial status mean? Each press secretary is lower cased, not 'Secretary' titled which is equivalent of 'Minister', and each answered to a boss, who also has a boss. Unlike what Liu Zhongde was and his successor is.

Yeah...Brainwashed is the best descriptor for you.

 

[Audio]

here comes the white worshipper's round of BS here! what does the navy seal's new book tell you? what does the american propaganda mouth pieces like the "white house secretary"; "the pentagon press secretary" tell you!? who is victoria nuland?

Victoria Nuland is the spokesperson of the dept. of State. For you-the ministry of foreign affairs. how does that equate to a Ministry of Information or w/e the name is?
Im quite sure (without checking facts-going by memory of news i read) that the Chinese ministries also have spokespersons in addition to the whole 50 cent financier ministry.

 

[ephone]

Discussion, liberal community and etc does not equal to what is discussed here: patriotic education.

Such patriotic education is deep rooted in U.S. education. How many countries' children need to do Pledge of Allegiance every day???

As for China's version of Patriotic education, if HK's people is so smart, as stated by you "people are not as stupid as you would like to believe, especially an educated society like Hong Kong.", so what makes HK people suddenly not to trust their own intelligence??? They could not tell right from wrong after the teaching???

I was under communist China's teaching of history for all childhood through college. Well, I still can tell a lot of them are garbage well a lot of them are not bad at all. If I can still tell such difference, at a society of HK where all kinds of information is available, they suddenly lose their own confidence???

As for people in U.S.,U.K.,Australia and etc know about their history, well, I have to say that it is really not flattering for their knowledge in such part.

All countries have some form of history teachings where patriotism is a part. However, people are not as stupid as you would like to believe, especially an educated society like Hong Kong. There is no need to explain the differences between teaching history and love of country versus what is outright propaganda. People can use the keyword search and there are plenty of definitions and explanations on what is propaganda and why it is a dirty word in any free society.


Depends on how is it taught and to what target audience. Looks like the HKs does not like the version being exported to them.


Yes. Utahns are well aware of the Mormons' less illustrious past. The Salt Lake City Tribune newspaper is just as liberal as any from the West Coast. FYI -- Salt Lake City is known as the interior San Francisco for the homosexual community.


Are you telling the Americans in this forum that they do not know of that part of US history?


I was stationed in the UK for three years back in the mid-80s and have heard such discussions.

Former Minister of Culture voices on cultural direction

Interesting, is it not? Only in dictatorial regimes are the chiefs of propaganda accorded cabinet/ministerial status. The US have nothing even 1/4 of the way close to China's Central Propaganda Dept. The American VOA is the closest thing to a propaganda apparatus for the US and it answers to some second, third, or even fourth level underlings inside the Department of State.

 

[gambit]

Discussion, liberal community and etc does not equal to what is discussed here: patriotic education.

Such patriotic education is deep rooted in U.S. education. How many countries' children need to do Pledge of Allegiance every day???

As for China's version of Patriotic education, if HK's people is so smart, as stated by you "people are not as stupid as you would like to believe, especially an educated society like Hong Kong.", so what makes HK people suddenly not to trust their own intelligence??? They could not tell right from wrong after the teaching???

I was under communist China's teaching of history for all childhood through college. Well, I still can tell a lot of them are garbage well a lot of them are not bad at all. If I can still tell such difference, at a society of HK where all kinds of information is available, they suddenly lose their own confidence???

Wow...Talk about a lack of logical thinking.

To protest the presentation or possibly the imposition of it upon themselves does not mean they are incapable of distinguishing propaganda from genuine instructions. To protest actually mean we recognize it for what it is and we are being vocal about our feelings. We opine -- may be wrongly -- that what is presented went beyond simple love of country and people.

As for people in U.S.,U.K.,Australia and etc know about their history, well, I have to say that it is really not flattering for their knowledge in such part.

So this is the essence of propaganda, to present only the flattering aspects of one's history, aka 'intellectual dishonesty'. All countries suffered and suffers from this at one time or another. Looks like China is still suffering.

 

[PLA supremacy]

Wow...Talk about a lack of logical thinking.

To protest the presentation or possibly the imposition of it upon themselves does not mean they are incapable of distinguishing propaganda from genuine instructions. To protest actually mean we recognize it for what it is and we are being vocal about our feelings. We opine -- may be wrongly -- that what is presented went beyond simple love of country and people.


So this is the essence of propaganda, to present only the flattering aspects of one's history, aka 'intellectual dishonesty'. All countries suffered and suffers from this at one time or another. Looks like China is still suffering.

we will worry about ourselves.

you worry about your bankrupt country on the terminal decline.

US is the only country in the world that makes greece look solvent in comparison.

The mass murdering tyrants in washington dont know what to do as the debt skyrockets as the american ponzi scheme economy is on the verge of total collapse.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

Why should people lands on that island.

People also like to climb Everest. same reason

 

[ayachyan]

Vietnam is like Chinese mainland: communism propaganda....

when talking about communism I feel closer to our Vietnam brother
hahahahah~~~~~~~
what so sad is communism is unable to erase the ditch between China and Vietnam
i hope sincerely the coming day of communism erases the very difference in humans' mind

 

[ayachyan]

Wow...Talk about a lack of logical thinking.

To protest the presentation or possibly the imposition of it upon themselves does not mean they are incapable of distinguishing propaganda from genuine instructions. To protest actually mean we recognize it for what it is and we are being vocal about our feelings. We opine -- may be wrongly -- that what is presented went beyond simple love of country and people.


So this is the essence of propaganda, to present only the flattering aspects of one's history, aka 'intellectual dishonesty'. All countries suffered and suffers from this at one time or another. Looks like China is still suffering.

i think the definition of brainwash was total difference from ours
could you tell us your definition of brainwash?
by the way
if you can tell us about "the right patriotic education" that will be very good

 

[sicsheep]

At least Chinese protest when they think they are fed the wrong information. You know, unlike countries like the US like Japan, people are too stupid that they think their governments gives out 100% unbiased and accurate information.

 

[gambit]

At least Chinese protest when they think they are fed the wrong information. You know, unlike countries like the US like Japan, people are too stupid that they think their governments gives out 100% unbiased and accurate information.

I guess for someone who claimed the US flag, it is amazing that you missed the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, people who called for the impeachment of Bush for the Iraq War or Clinton for sexual misconducts...

Guess despite living in the US with all the available information, propaganda and brainwashing from Mother China is overwhelmingly powerful.

 

[sicsheep]

I guess for someone who claimed the US flag, it is amazing that you missed the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, people who called for the impeachment of Bush for the Iraq War or Clinton for sexual misconducts...

Guess despite living in the US with all the available information, propaganda and brainwashing from Mother China is overwhelmingly powerful.

How could that be?!!! Been a loyal VOA listener since 5!!!

 

[WK114]

Now In Hong Kong, every different opinion from the protester was soon been blasted, scolded, condemned… they allow only one voice, to support them to against this so-call brainwash education! (even thought they never answer which part or which content are brainwashing, and actually the content never yet come up with)

Some peoples are there (the demonstration site of those protesters) to show their different opinion about what they call brainwash education were soon been scolded, yelling at…

Actually there are quite amount of peoples, some groups and some commentaries on newspaper are actually support this new subject were also ignored and condemned, they simply dominate all range of media, TV, Press, Radio…
I truly feel their kind of autarchy!

It sparked great amount of debate on Internet forum too. As always, the protest side takes the moral highground first, and with many peoples already have anit-mainland sentiment, it seem to me they successfully create a trend, a mainstream to support their view among public. But as I mentioned, they cannot exclude others voice on Internet forum.

I think their protests and demonstration will be diminished after Hong Kong Legislative Council election held on 9/9/12.

 

[ephone]

lack of logical thinking???

Why don't you look at your own replies carefully and see how your own logic pans out??? As for U.S. own students lack of historical knowledge, that is quite the truth. I teach college students and I do know their level of historical knowledge. Even for those so-called elite students, their knowledge of their own is not flattering at all.

Even educated under commie China, I still can tell right from wrong and understand what part of history I was taught was totally not the truth. However, it seems that when U.S. presidents chant for something, few question them at all. When media start to attack China, it is just amazing that how uniform their remarks are, no matter it is from U.S., U.K., Germany or Australia. That is what democracy has produced uniform thinking??? Even commie will say they are not as "good" as the western media's propaganda. I won't need list examples here. Those anti-CNN sites have said way too much about such hypocrisy.

Don't just say only commie does propaganda. The west has done way much more than the few commie countries.

Wow...Talk about a lack of logical thinking.

To protest the presentation or possibly the imposition of it upon themselves does not mean they are incapable of distinguishing propaganda from genuine instructions. To protest actually mean we recognize it for what it is and we are being vocal about our feelings. We opine -- may be wrongly -- that what is presented went beyond simple love of country and people.


So this is the essence of propaganda, to present only the flattering aspects of one's history, aka 'intellectual dishonesty'. All countries suffered and suffers from this at one time or another. Looks like China is still suffering.

 

[gambit]

lack of logical thinking???

Why don't you look at your own replies carefully and see how your own logic pans out??? As for U.S. own students lack of historical knowledge, that is quite the truth. I teach college students and I do know their level of historical knowledge. Even for those so-called elite students, their knowledge of their own is not flattering at all.

Right...Students entering college is supposed to already endowed with all the knowledge. Kinda makes me wonder why colleges are needed in the first place if this argument is to be taken seriously.

Indeed, lack of logical thinking.

Even educated under commie China, I still can tell right from wrong and understand what part of history I was taught was totally not the truth. However, it seems that when U.S. presidents chant for something, few question them at all. When media start to attack China, it is just amazing that how uniform their remarks are, no matter it is from U.S., U.K., Germany or Australia. That is what democracy has produced uniform thinking??? Even commie will say they are not as "good" as the western media's propaganda. I won't need list examples here. Those anti-CNN sites have said way too much about such hypocrisy.

Don't just say only commie does propaganda. The west has done way much more than the few commie countries.

Really...??? Then why is the Chinese government so terrified of opposition political parties and press? If this argument is to be taken seriously, China should be a shining example for the world of a vibrant politically informed and politically varied citizenry. Instead, we see companies eager to have 'red hats' among their executives...Do I need to list many more examples of how compliant the Chinese citizenry really is, especially the wealthier and politically connected ones?

Indeed, lack of logical thinking.

 

[sicsheep]

Here are some logical thinking for you.

China is not ruled by a dictator, like North Korea, the power within CCP itself is institutionalized. But yes, there is no opposition, the current goverment rules without challenge, that is a fact and this is what makes China unique, what edge does China have over countries like India and Brazil? they are all seen as true democracies by the west, right? they both have vast land resource and population, is it because Chinese just work harder? maybe.

In the US, corporations and wall street have a heavy influence on politics, some even argue they control the capital hill. People like Robert Gates and GWB has a personal stake in policy making. In China, it's the exact opposite, businesses has to follow the government and sometimes has the right connection in order to profit, politicians don't try to please the business man, it's vice versa. The CCP is like the republican party, unions has no power in China, very little social benefits, very little health care, very little retirement funds. they are also like the democrats, regulated financial sectors, state owned banks, public transport, postal, telecom, all crucial so the government can't be taken hostage by corporations. They do not have a set of ideals like the US political parties, they just do what's best for the country. In the end, its effective, efficient, in areas like defense and economy. They don't have to worry about criticism from the opposition and effectively implement regulations.They are more likely to achieve a long term strategic target that won't be effected by regime change.

But there are so many success stories of democracy!!! The U.S being the biggest one, Along with Western Europe. If you look trough history, the only successful democracies has always had wealth before democracy, not the other way around. Look and GWB's second term in white house, it's almost like he had a four year vacation, he makes so many jokes he thinks himself as a pop star. Look at Obama, republicans vote him down no matter right or wrong, just to get him out of the office.

Many Chinese goes aboard to seek a better opportunity, majority's first choice is the USA. Is that because they are in need of freedom? The majority of US immigrants are Mexicans, do they not get freedom from their democratic government?

The CCP certainly does use propaganda, I think that is just to counter the western propaganda that is forced upon the Chinese people. What the west want in China is instability and Chaos, democracy conveniently provides both.
If you had to choose between a roof for your family and the first amendment, what is your choice??? Right! YOU DONT HAVE TO!

You know tens of thousand of Chinese couldn't find a job in China for some reason. They come to the US for political asylum, say to the judge's face that they were tortured, prosecuted for being Christian, Falungon and etc... they get an instant green card. Due to their asylum / refugee status, they can also bring their whole family over and claim social benefit at will, without worrying about anything. (every other type of green card is either sponsored by a US citizen or US company, thus the card can get very few if any social benefit.) How many of them do you think are for real? My best guess is 1 out of 50000. It's the SPOKEN truth among the Chinese community. Thousands of Chinese lawyers makes a living out of doing this. Homeland and Justice must be stupid right?? LOL? All this is just so the speaker of white house can say "Get your human rights problems solved! Look, so many Chinese seeks asylum here. It must be bad!! We have a million sworn statements!!" Do you think this is propaganda? paid by your tax money and your jobs!! and you are not gonna hear about this from CNN.