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History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

My relatives live in Beijing and Linye (about 1 hour flight trip from Beijing). I have to admit I was impressed by Beijing. The city is awesome except for the polluted air.

Welcome to Beijing.

I just got back from a two weeks trip in Beijing and Linye. The people over there are mostly cool and nice as heck. Not sure why they Chinese here on this website are bunch of assholes. :woot:

And where is Linye? Are you referring to Linyi?

Are you proud for that ?



most of aggressive Chinese members here on DPF belong to southern Chinese or oversea Chinese, they tried portray themselves truer Han Chinese than Han Chinese in Zhong Yuan. :undecided:

No. They are the most patriotic Chinese, most of the revolution in early 20th centuries were initiated by South Chinese, like our Chairman Mao and Sun Yat-sen. North and South Chinese are standing firmly together to defend our country.
 
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Where are my manners,while this forum has its fair share of vitriolic nationalists/irredentists there's still some reasonable members,but welcome to this forum.

Uncorroborated sources/mythology don't fly in the academic community,therefore they shouldn't be used as a legitimate substitute for primary/secondary sources.

While it is possible that individuals rooted in mythology might represent a set of ideals or a tribe or that some sort of conflict emerged between several parties however they are heavily embellished and contain anachronistic terminology.

That's the issue you can't attach prehistoric cultures to a later day fabrication,Chinese historians use the Erlitou culture as "proof" for the Xia dynasty however there's no evidence of writing therefore its not recognized by Western historians.

The same reason why the Shang dynasty was put under heavy scrutiny until oracle bones were found to record Shang era events and Shang imperial lineage.

Qin Shihuang's book burning have nothing to do with Van Lang/Hong Bang they were too distant to know of each other,neither did the Spring Autumn/Warring States maintain close contacts with Central Asians.

Hong Bang dynasty is a complete sham made by Vietnamese to prove that they are an older civilization and origin of Chinese culture.

1.Material culture is not indicative of suzerainty ie Dong Son bronze drums spread throughout parts of southern China as well as southeast Asia however there existed an independent tradition in Shizaishan. Many foreign cultures adopted Chinese culture and imported Chinese swords,mirrors as well as bells however this doesn't make them Chinese.

2.Chinese terminology as well as mimicry ie the terminology of Phong Chau is erroneous as it couldn't possibly have existed until the Sui-Tang era where 州 was redefined,as well as this famous passage:
東夾南海,西抵巴蜀,北至洞庭湖,南至狐猻精國(今占城是也)。
To the East it bordered the Southern sea,the west BaShu to the North Dong Ting Lake and to the South Hu Sun(Champa).

Is just ripping off the Huayang Guozhi.

3.The lack of Chinese sources indicating a powerful kingdom to the south or archaeological evidence of a bureaucracy that ruled southern China from Vietnam,writing etc.

4.Linguistics:Southern China had Austronesians,Tai Kadai,Austro Asiatics,Tibeto Burmans as well as Miao Yao speakers how can they all be Vietnamese?

5.No other ethnicity has myths of Hung Kings,a powerful country would surely leave behind descendants all over Southern China.

This is just the tip of the iceberg there are plenty of other evidence that contradicts the medieval Vietnamese narrative.

The issue is that Dong Son culture faded away after Chinese culture supplanted it and that it barely influenced other cultures,the bronze drums which the Vietnamese hold great pride over today were viewed as relics of barbarians by medieval Vietnamese.

Chinese legacy is widespread despite how Vietnamese want to deny it today ie historically Vietnamese surnames,architecture,bureaucracy,philosophy,linguistics,clothing,script were all heavily influenced by Chinese cultures.

Vietnamese claiming that they had a civilization that matched the Chinese in influence and territory is ridiculous,it would be like saying the Germanic tribes the Romans faced were the origins of the of the Romans.


There's no such as true Han Chinese,tell me are Northern,Central or Southern Vietnamese more Kinh?

Considering how you and your countrymen spew so many lies its only natural that Chinese would feel offended.

I respect your opinion. The arguments you put forward are valid in a historical viewpoint. However, I have my own views.

Artifact discovered, such as the bronze drum does predate the Qin Dynasty. Medieval Vietnamese do not look at the bronze drum as "barbarian" as you have stated. In fact, a relic shard of the bronze drum have been safe guarded within my family and placed behind our ancestors' shrine, past down for thousands of years. When we relocate, it goes first.

Vietnamese are not claiming a greater and older history than China. This is your own misperception. It is common for people to use known history of a particular ethnicity as a reference for the purposes of dating a particular era being discussed, so that the person involve in the discussion may understand the timeline. Especially in a forum like this where we don't know which Asian group each person belongs to.
 
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So South Chinese shouldn't be patriotic, your analogy is funny here.
I don't believe patriotism and hating enemies are the same. Because Southern Chinese live much closer to VN, they have more chance to meet up, understand and sympathize with VNese. Same goes to Northern VNese living near China-VN border. Those people do not completely fall under the govt propaganda.

I respect your opinion. The arguments you put forward are valid in a historical viewpoint. However, I have my own views.

Artifact discovered, such as the bronze drum does predate the Qin Dynasty. Medieval Vietnamese do not look at the bronze drum as "barbarian" as you have stated. In fact, a relic shard of the bronze drum have been safe guarded within my family and placed behind our ancestors' shrine, past down for thousands of years. When we relocate, it goes first.

Vietnamese are not claiming a greater and older history than China. This is your own misperception. It is common for people use the known history of a particular ethnicity as a reference for the purposes of dating a particular era being discussed, so that the person involve in the discussion may understand the timeline. Especially in a forum like this where we don't know which Asian group each person belongs to.
Dude, nice talk. Some Chinese mems on PDF often bring up wild claims that VN said this VN did that which, as a VNese I have never seen or heard about. For example after the war with US, it was true that VN was overconfident in its military power, but to claim to be the third strongest country in the world, after Russia and China? It was ridiculous. VNese, especially politicans did not live in a small village with no education to make such statement. Even a middle schooler now understand that. But somehow some Chinese mems here believe that VN did say and act like that. Chinese govt propaganda are effective, too effective.
 
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I respect your opinion. The arguments you put forward are valid in a historical viewpoint. However, I have my own views.

Artifact discovered, such as the bronze drum does predate the Qin Dynasty. Medieval Vietnamese do not look at the bronze drum as "barbarian" as you have stated. In fact, a relic shard of the bronze drum have been safe guarded within my family and placed behind our ancestors' shrine, past down for thousands of years. When we relocate, it goes first.

Vietnamese are not claiming a greater and older history than China. This is your own misperception. It is common for people to use known history of a particular ethnicity as a reference for the purposes of dating a particular era being discussed, so that the person involve in the discussion may understand the timeline. Especially in a forum like this where we don't know which Asian group each person belongs to.
Except that the bronze drum tradition arose at the exact same time in Yunnan,claiming all bronze drums as Vietnamese is ludicrous.

Bronze drums don't prove sovereignty or evidence of Hung Kings all they proved that indigenous peoples were had to tools to shape bronze.

No, bronze drums were clearly a symbol of un Sinicized peoples.
The Unimportance of Bronze Drums in Việt History | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog
Vịet, “Chinese,” Savages and Bronze Drums | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

Its not a misconception if Vietnamese members on this forum have already expressed this view,there's no need for me to quote these members as they already posted their views plenty of times ie Rechoice,EastSea,ViXuyen,NiceGuy etc.

The underlying theme is that there is an immutable Vietnamese identity and that Southern Han Chinese should join them in some political union.
 
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There's no such as true Han Chinese,tell me are Northern,Central or Southern Vietnamese more Kinh?
Considering how you and your countrymen spew so many lies its only natural that Chinese would feel offended.

what I said in our discussion is truth, bro. I don't think that is offended. Problem is southern Chinese would like to be as superior like Han Chinese from North China who invented Chinese culture and chinese civilization.

So South Chinese shouldn't be patriotic, your analogy is funny here.

I don't said about patriotism, I said about aggressiveness..
 
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Dude, nice talk. Some Chinese mems on PDF often bring up wild claims that VN said this VN did that which, as a VNese I have never seen or heard about. For example after the war with US, it was true that VN was overconfident in its military power, but to claim to be the third strongest country in the world, after Russia and China? It was ridiculous. VNese, especially politicans did not live in a small village with no education to make such statement. Even a middle schooler now understand that. But somehow some Chinese mems here believe that VN did say and act like that. Chinese govt propaganda are effective, too effective.
You are either feigning ignorance or blind,many Vietnamese members on this forum argue for Baiyue independence and brag how powerful the Hung Kings were and how Southern China was their land.
 
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No. They are the most patriotic Chinese, most of the revolution in early 20th centuries were initiated by South Chinese, like our Chairman Mao and Sun Yat-sen. North and South Chinese are standing firmly together to defend our country.

You said like what paper Number 1 of People Daily of CPC edited.:partay:
 
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what I said in our discussion is truth, bro. I don't think that is offended. Problem is southern Chinese would like to be as superior like Han Chinese from North China who invented Chinese culture and chinese civilization.

Are you kidding me? South Chinese and North Chinese are equivalent, and we both found our country called PRC.

- The father of China's space program was Shanghainese.
- The fathers of China's nuclear sub were Cantonese.
- The father of China's H-bomb was from Tianjin.

You see, no matter North Chinese or South Chinese, we have equally founded our country.
 
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what I said in our discussion is truth, bro. I don't think that is offended. Problem is southern Chinese would like to be as superior like Han Chinese from North China who invented Chinese culture and chinese civilization.
Every Han Chinese subset thinks they're superior to others,Han Chinese are not a homogeneous entity they each exhibit regional variations in culture/architecture/genetics etc.

You're equating modern day Northern Han with ancient Northern Han which is ridiculous,some ancient Northern Han cluster with today's Southern Han Chinese doesn't mean that Southern Han Chinese can exclusively claim Chinese civilization as their own.
 
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Except that the bronze drum tradition arose at the exact same time in Yunnan,claiming all bronze drums as Vietnamese is ludicrous.

Bronze drums don't prove sovereignty or evidence of Hung Kings all they proved that indigenous peoples were had to tools to shape bronze.

No, bronze drums were clearly a symbol of un Sinicized peoples.
The Unimportance of Bronze Drums in Việt History | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog
Vịet, “Chinese,” Savages and Bronze Drums | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

Its not a misconception if Vietnamese members on this forum have already expressed this view,there's no need for me to quote these members as they already posted their views plenty of times ie Rechoice,EastSea,ViXuyen,NiceGuy etc.

The underlying theme is that there is an immutable Vietnamese identity and that Southern Han Chinese should join them in some political union.

Vietnam belong to Dong Son culture . bronze drums found also in south east asia (Indonesia, Cambodia etc and in southern China), not only in Vietnam.

There is root of us, so why we joined to ASEAN.
 
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Vietnam belong to Dong Son culture . bronze drums found also in south east asia (Indonesia, Cambodia etc and in southern China), not only in Vietnam.

There is root of us, so why we joined to ASEAN.
Doesn't matter if Vietnamese belonged to it,Vietnamese Sinicized and never got rid of it.
 
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Your name is [达] Đạt [晖] Huy [郎] Lang if written out in Vietnamese.

Sawndip Script looks very complex. Written during the early Tang Dynasty.

Was there a reason to move from old Sawndip Script to Alphabetical Zhuang Script? Which script are more in use by Zhuang people?
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Like another Chinese,Zhuang people use Chinese character,speak mandarin in public place,
there is 4 minority nationality characters in a 1yuan RMB.

20140911_150524 11.jpg

in fact, most of Zhuang people cound't read and write Alphabetical Zhuang Script,this script use in the gov signs,files,only professor can understand the script,:lol:

for thousands of years,Southern minority nationality region followed the central govenment's system, established a stable and sound social relations with the central dynasty.
 
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How very interesting. I've never heard of Zhuang ethnic group until now. @dahuilang942 , perchance you could start a threat about the Zhuang ethnic and illustrate some of their native regalia, festivities? Please and Thanks.
 
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Are you kidding me? South Chinese and North Chinese are equivalent, and we both found our country called PRC.

- The father of China's space program was Shanghainese.
- The fathers of China's nuclear sub were Cantonese.
- The father of China's H-bomb was from Tianjin.

You see, no matter North Chinese or South Chinese, we have equally founded our country.

I said about invention, not about copy ability. Hua Xia culture belong to Han Chinese in northern China, not belong to Bai Yue, they were barbarian in ancient time.

Apply your analogy I can say that father DKZ canon is Vietnamese, father of mini-sub marine in Vietnam is Vietnamese etc.
 
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Vietnam belong to Dong Son culture . bronze drums found also in south east asia (Indonesia, Cambodia etc and in southern China), not only in Vietnam.

There is root of us, so why we joined to ASEAN.

South China is not Southeast Asia, just like South Germany is not Southern Europe.

I said about invention, not about copy ability. Hua Xia culture belong to Han Chinese in northern China, not belong to Bai Yue, they were barbarian in ancient time.

Apply your analogy I can say that father DKZ canon is Vietnamese, father of mini-sub marine in Vietnam is Vietnamese etc.

Who cares? Most South Chinese descended from Huaxia as well.
 
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