History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[xesy]

Chinese is based on the culture not the race, as a teacher, we teach Vietnamese so much things, whatever tradition or religion, but still when you guys needed us to protect you, we were/would be there.
Fine, you call it aggression, but in lots of history books in Chinese, even wrote by Vietnamese government at that moment, you guys asked us to be there for help you people.
Overall, you should know, the culture is not completed without Vietnam. You are a part of Chinese culture, not an independent one.
We are family, back to us, back to using Chinese words.

There is a misunderstanding here. Even though we did use Chinese characters for writing for a long time, VN still has its own language. As a heavily-Chinese-influenced country, it was easier for us to pick up an already existing writing system instead of creating our own. VNese culture is proud to be the mix of all cultures which belongs to other countries. Nowadays, few people speak "pure VNese". A bit of Chinese, Japanese, English, French words can be heard here and there. You can't say VN is part of this country or that country because there are images of other cultures in ours.

 

[dichoi]

Europe, during the Middle Ages used East orientation maps, where Asia is on top, left is Europe and right is Africa. There were no South because it was considered uninhabited.

In the past, ancient map of Vietnam orientation is that : on top is Laos (west) and in right is China (north) and in bottom is East sea (east) of Vietnam ( Pacific Ocean).

 

[Edison Chen]

It is true, I have it then I'm not permitted by my doctor to eat dog meat..

It's also a kind of 'hot' meat, you can eat it in winter but never in summer.

 

[Rechoice]

It's also a kind of 'hot' meat, you can eat it in winter but never in summer.

Thanks for ur advice. I have been given up. In my business, I have some Guan xi with some VIP, I have to invite them to restaurant, there is not available dog meat.

You are living in Zhangsha, I think people in Hunan don't have habitat to eat dog meat.It is good for you.

 

[Rent]

In the past, ancient map of Vietnam orientation is that : on top is Laos (west) and in right is China (north) and in bottom is East sea (east) of Vietnam ( Pacific Ocean).

Nice.

Below is another map dated 1834 of Vietnam showing the same orientation as you have mentioned, but both maps are of later dates. I am wondering about the cardinal directions used during 2nd Century.

Below is another map dated around 206BC to 9AD, excavated from the tomb site at Changsa, Hunan, China known as King Ma's Mound to which it was believed and recorded by historians and scholars for centuries to be the burial place of King Ma. But through excavation it was discovered to be actually the tomb of Marquis Li Cang. The name of the tomb site, however, remain to this day.

It is hard to make out from the photo, but the map depict the boundary between Changsa Kingdom (Chu-Han or Western Han) and Nam Viet Kingdom. Nam Viet is orientated at the top of the map. Theoretically speaking, if there is a Southern Viet Kingdom, surely there must be a Northern Viet or just Viet Kingdom to start with, since this is a common naming convention for kingdoms. According to the orientation of the map below, it should be located on top of Nam Viet, if so, this is where Vietnam is today. Right?

 

[Rent]

Viet is what the north China people call the south China people two thousands years ago
It covers vast land from Changjiang river to Vietnam, which newly joined the united China country.
These kind of newly joined land will separate and become independent if central government is collapsed
Nam Viet is once also independent but soon rejoin the China.
Vietnam get independent in around 1000 AD and no longer return.
Chinese emperor give the name Vietnam, meaning even south part of Nam Viet.

Thanks.

 

[dichoi]

Nice.

Below is another map dated 1834 of Vietnam showing the same orientation as you have mentioned, but both maps are of later dates. I am wondering about the cardinal directions used during 2nd Century.

Below is another map dated around 206BC to 9AD, excavated from the tomb site at Changsa, Hunan, China known as King Ma's Mound to which it was believed and recorded by historians and scholars for centuries to be the burial place of King Ma. But through excavation it was discovered to be actually the tomb of Marquis Li Cang. The name of the tomb site, however, remain to this day.

It is hard to make out from the photo, but the map depict the boundary between Changsa Kingdom (Chu-Han or Western Han) and Nam Viet Kingdom. Nam Viet is orientated at the top of the map. Theoretically speaking, if there is a Southern Viet Kingdom, surely there must be a Northern Viet or just Viet Kingdom to start with, since this is a common naming convention for kingdoms. According to the orientation of the map below, it should be located on top of Nam Viet, if so, this is where Vietnam is today. Right?

Yes. Original orientation of map Vietnam 1834 is looks like this.

I don't know about ancient map founded in China you posted above.

 

[Rent]

Yes. Original orientation of map Vietnam 1834 is looks like this.

I don't know about ancient map founded in China you posted above.

Here is the reconstruction drawing of the map.

You can use Google map to compare, but you will have flip this map upside in order to do so because the map is oriented with south to the top,

It corresponds to parts of the modern provinces of Hunan, Guangdong and Guangxi with 桃陽 (modern Quanzhou 全州) in the bottom right (northwest corner), 舂陵 (modern Xintian 新田) in the bottom left (northeast corner), and 桂陽 (modern Lianzhou 連州) near the top left (southeast corner).

 

[dichoi]

Here is the reconstruction drawing of the map.

You can use Google map to compare, but you will have flip this map upside in order to do so because the map is oriented with south to the top,

It corresponds to parts of the modern provinces of Hunan, Guangdong and Guangxi with 桃陽 (modern Quanzhou 全州) in the bottom right (northwest corner), 舂陵 (modern Xintian 新田) in the bottom left (northeast corner), and 桂陽 (modern Lianzhou 連州) near the top left (southeast corner).

I found it Ma wang Dui in en.wiki 馬(马)王堆. In case of such Han Zi 桃陽, 舂陵, 桂陽 is existed, it is reliable.

 

[hans]

Right, as a mature writing system, Chinese character is used by many countries around China like Japan, Korea and Vietnam.
The problem is that writing and oral language cannot match.
Even in China, most people speak different language.
China only solve this problem by use Mandarin Chinese since last century..
And other country invent their own writing system to match their local language

There is a misunderstanding here. Even though we did use Chinese characters for writing for a long time, VN still has its own language. As a heavily-Chinese-influenced country, it was easier for us to pick up an already existing writing system instead of creating our own. VNese culture is proud to be the mix of all cultures which belongs to other countries. Nowadays, few people speak "pure VNese". A bit of Chinese, Japanese, English, French words can be heard here and there. You can't say VN is part of this country or that country because there are images of other cultures in ours.

 

[xesy]

Right, as a mature writing system, Chinese character is used by many countries around China like Japan, Korea and Vietnam.
The problem is that writing and oral language cannot match.
Even in China, most people speak different language.
China only solve this problem by use Mandarin Chinese since last century..
And other country invent their own writing system to match their local language

It is either inventing or adapting. Modern VN was influenced much more by French culture in the early 20th century so of course when choosing a new writing system, our leaders chose latins over mandarin.

 

[hans]

But it is a big of strange that Asia country using Latin letters for their language.
I am not sure if there is old Vietnam writing system before French

It is either inventing or adapting. Modern VN was influenced much more by French culture in the early 20th century so of course when choosing a new writing system, our leaders chose latins over mandarin.

 

[xesy]

But it is a big of strange that Asia country using Latin letters for their language.
I am not sure if there is old Vietnam writing system before French

There were Nom, which is actually Chinese. Many minor VN ethics have their own languages, but no writing systems. Normally, they used to hire those knowing how to write and read to write documents for them, like receipts or family trees, of course in mandarin.

 

[hans]

Mandarin is the national speaking language, only oral language
For writing system, we have traditional and simplified Chinese character..
So it is traditional Chinese that are used by Vietnam, Korea, etc..
And China simplify it for ordinary people to learn.
So finally there is a match of writing and speaking language(simplified Chinese character with Mandarin).
Learning traditional Chinese characters are painful..

There were Nom, which is actually Chinese. Many minor VN ethics have their own languages, but no writing systems. Normally, they used to hire those knowing how to write and read to write documents for them, like receipts or family trees, of course in mandarin.

 

[xesy]

Mandarin is the national speaking language, only oral language
For writing system, we have traditional and simplified Chinese character..
So it is traditional Chinese that are used by Vietnam, Korea, etc..
And China simplify it for ordinary people to learn.
So finally there is a match of writing and speaking language(simplified Chinese character with Mandarin).
Learning traditional Chinese characters are painful..

Our ancestor writing was also the traditional Chinese character. My grandfather was a shaman so he could write a lot. Too bad none of my uncles and aunt can write though.