History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[ChineseTiger1986]

More propaganda bullsh1t, the ancient Chinese didn't dress like that, this is the dress of the much later Qing Dynasty.

 

[Sedqal]

Is racial purity a big issue in Vietnam? Does it effect politics?

 

[beijingwalker]

Do you as Chinese call other Chinese as foreigner?


In 196 BC, Zhao Tuo made tributary obeisance to the Emperor Gaozu of Han and Nanyue was referred to by Han leaders as a "foreign servant" (Chinese: 外&#33251, synecdoche for a vassal state.

Nanyue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They called each other foreigners in the past,even provice used to be a kingdom in China,but later on they all came into a single country.

 

[Snomannen]

Do you as Chinese call other Chinese as foreigner?


In 196 BC, Zhao Tuo made tributary obeisance to the Emperor Gaozu of Han and Nanyue was referred to by Han leaders as a "foreign servant" (Chinese: 外&#33251, synecdoche for a vassal state.

Nanyue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So? During the dynasties of Spring and Autumn, the Three Kingdoms and the others, every Chinese nations are foreigners to the others.

 

[Viet]

So? During the dynasties of Spring and Autumn, the Three Kingdoms and the others, every Chinese nations are foreigners to the others.

okay, Chinese seem to have a different concept of nationalism. The Viet never called other Viet as foreigner, even in times when there were two Viet Kingdoms, the Nguyen (North) and the Trinh (South).

 

[beijingwalker]

okay, Chinese seem to have a different concept of nationalism. The Viet never called other Viet as foreigner, even in times when there were two Viet Kingdoms, the Nguyen (North) and the Trinh (South).

In some part of the history,they did.every country did,even a country as small as Britain did.but it wont stop them from becoming one country today.

 

[sahaliyan]

The majority of Cantonese, Fujianese and residents of Zhejiang and other southern provinces are descended from northern Han who moved to Guangdong after the fall of the Han dynasty. During the Eastern Jin dynasty and during the Tang dynasty, millions of northern Han fled to southern China. You are a massive liar.

Portrait of a Community

Portrait of a Community

In the Shadow of the Han

A History of Chinese Civilization - Jacques Gernet - Google knygos

Southern Han are descended from northern Han who moved south and married the native Baiyue women, this is why the southern Han y Chromosome (inherited from the father) is extremely close to northern Han Y chromosome, but the mtdna (inherited from the mother) and autosomal DNA is different.

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google Books

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google Books

European Journal of Human Genetics - Abstract of article: A spatial analysis of genetic structure of human populations in China reveals distinct difference between maternal and paternal lineages

http://159.226.149.45/compgenegroup/paper/wenbo Han culture paper (2004).pdf

Genetic evidence supports demic diffusion of Han cult... [Nature. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v431/n7006/full/nature02878.html



European Journal of Human Genetics - Abstract of article: A spatial analysis of genetic structure of human populations in China reveals distinct difference between maternal and paternal lineages

The Y chromosome haplogroup and subclade among different groups of East Asians.

No,most Southern Chinese are natives,for example in Guangdong,at least 40% of their paternal lineage and 80% maternal line are netive.O1-M119 make up 30% of Zhejiang males,while less than 4% of northern Chinese

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[Viet]

Go to Cabramatta, Sydney Australia. You will be at home, its a shitty suburb in western sydney where alot of Viets live.

you dumb@ss. I visited Cabramatta recently. We are doing fine there. Go and tell me how and where Chinese communities live in Australia?

 

[EastSea]

Well, China will not allow others to interfere or invade border countries that China has close connection with.

For example, Korea war, China against the so-called U.S. led U.N. force, helping the n.k.
Early vn war, China against the France, helping the n. vn
Later vn war, China against U.S., helping the n. vn
Border conflict with vn during the 80s, helping cambodia.

Early vn war, China against the France, helping the n. vn to shake hands with France to divide Vietnam in Geneva conference for Vietnam 1954. so France was first country in the west recognized Communist China of Mao.
Later vn war, China against U.S., helping the n. vn only to 1968 to make his position to discuss with Nixon 1972 and normalization diplomacy relation with US, enemy of Vietnam in Vietnam war.
Border conflict with vn during the 80s, is consequency of that China was backed Khmer Rouge in cambodia to attack Vietnam from 1976-1978. When Khmer Rouge was wiped out by Cambodia people with help of Vietnam. China droped his mask and himself attacke on Vietnam 1979.

Is racial purity a big issue in Vietnam? Does it effect politics?

Read my answer above, You can understand that why Vietnamese people look bad at Chinese CPC leaders (Mao, Dang Xiaoping ...) and such extremists in China.

 

[ephone]

What kind of garbage are you posting???

Are you talking about women thousand of years ago or women today???

The consensus is that women status today in China is way higher than that in vietnam.

Let me re-post this historic event of the rebellion of Trung sisters. As daughters of a noble Vietnamese family, the Trung sisters were in line to inherit their father’s land and titles. According to Chinese law, they could not.


The Trưng sisters
Trưng Trắc (徵 &#20596 and Trưng Nhị (徵 &#36019 | (ca. 12 - AD 43)

“All the male heroes bowed their heads in submission; 
Only the two sisters proudly stood up to avenge the country.” 
 - 15th century poem

For over a thousand years, the Chinese Han Dynasty ruled over Vietnam as a colonial power. Vietnam had resources, people, and most importantly, the Red River Delta. The Red River Delta is an area in the north of the country that was cultivated for wet rice production, was an important international trading port, and was the land from where the Vietnamese traced their origins. The Han Dynasty had been encroaching on the Lac Lords of Vietnam, the heads of the feudal system that was the foundation of Vietnamese culture. These were the landed aristocrats that had been the ruling noble class for over two millennia.

At first working together in trade and negotiations, the relationship grew authoritarian, and the Chinese began to tax, subjugate, and forcibly assimilate the Vietnamese into the Chinese Empire. By 111 BC, the Han Dynasty had complete control over Vietnam and had divided the kingdom into territories that were ruled by Chinese appointed governors.

Fast-forward 150 years to 39 AD and we meet one such Chinese governor, To Dinh, who ruled over the Me Linh prefecture. The Vietnamese Lord of this prefecture was General Lac, who had two daughters, Trung Trac and Trung Nhi. The two daughters grew up in a military household and were trained in the art of warfare, weaponry, and martial arts. When it came time for a marriage for the eldest daughter Trac, she married the son of the neighboring prefecture who also hailed from a military noble family. Together these two noble families created a powerful military alliance.

China’s repressive regime, taxation of goods, imprisonment of “uncooperative” Vietnamese, and confiscation of lands was causing open hostility among the aristocracy and peasant populations. Most importantly for our heroines, the Chinese replaced the Vietnamese matriarchal family-system with its strict patriarchal system with rigid social control. This is the kiss of death for any society with any form of equality between the sexes. Just ask our friends Cleopatra and her daughter Selene.

As daughters of a noble Vietnamese family, the Trung sisters were in line to inherit their father’s land and titles. According to Chinese law, they could not. Then, the unthinkable happened. Trac’s husband was executed for protesting a new tax imposed by To Dinh. Trac and Nhi’s inheritance, livelihood, and way of life were in jeopardy. Trac refused to go into mourning and instead she and her sister put all their military training to work and began mobilizing the remaining noblemen and peasants to their cause. Their goal was to oust Governor To Dinh and return Vietnam to an independent kingdom. They organized an army of 30,000 soldiers and led them into battle.

In literature and art the Trung sisters charge into battle atop elephants with swords drawn. Surrounding them are the armies raised by the lords from their individual prefectures. At the head of these armies were the generals the Trung sisters chose to be commanders. Temples dedicated to the Trung sisters that remain today list the leaders and generals of their army. The majority of them are women, including their own mother. One of the generals was a woman named Phing Thi Chinh, who according to legend, gave birth during the revolution and would fight in battle with her newborn strapped to her back.

But why would so many follow two women? Trung Trac and Trung Nhi were also descendants of Lac Long Quân, the original Dragon Lord, the founder of the Vietnamese people. According to their creation myth, The Dragon Lord’s wife laid 100 eggs that would go on to become the 100 noble families of Vietnam. Trac and Nhi’s family were one of those elite. As a matriarchal society were women could hold equal ranking as men, following two women who claimed to be descendents of the Dragon Lord seemed like a no brainer.

Within several months, the Trung sisters had liberated 65 northern citadels in Vietnam and ousted the repressive governor. Trac now commanded an army of 80,000 soldiers. She proclaimed herself Queen of an independent Vietnam and established her capital in her hometown at Me Linh. Some records indicate Nhi was the better warrior. If this is true, it would seem that the Trung sisters followed the typical royal family model of the eldest child being crowned monarch and the younger child named commander of the nation’s army. Other accounts tell us that the two sisters ruled as co-regents of the newly independent Vietnam.

Trac’s reign was dedicated to restoring Vietnam back to its traditional ways. She immediately ended all tributary taxes to China, distributed the treasury of the governor back to the Lac Lords, and attempted to return to a feudal political system. For almost three years, the Trung sisters successfully fought and held off the Chinese, who were not going to give up the Red River Delta so easily.

In 43 AD, the Chinese sent a new General Marshal Ma Yuan to deal with the Trung Sisters. This time, the Han Emperor put all his resources into the army and taking back Vietnam. Many of the original lords and supporters of the Trung Sisters had returned to their land, taking their armies with them. What was left was no match for the invading Chinese army and they defeated the Trung sisters and put Vietnam back under colonial control. According to Chinese history, the Trung sisters were executed. According to Vietnamese history, they committed suicide by drowning in a river to maintain their honor.

Centuries later, the Trung sisters became heroes and the first Vietnamese nationalists. A seventh-century retelling imagines Trac’s declaration to her army as putting her duty to country first over her duty to family:

“Foremost, I will avenge my country,
Second, I will restore the Hung lineage,
Third, I will avenge the death of my husband,
Lastly, I vow that these goals will be accomplished”

As with all national heroes, the Trung sisters’ exploits have become epic over time. In one account, they kill a tiger that no one had been able to capture and then write their manifesto on its skin. Every February, there is a celebration held in their honor commemorating their martyrdoms. They remain unifying national heroes to the Vietnamese identify and their association with rebellion against invasion is still evoked today. This poignant video compares the Trung sister’s rebellion against China almost two thousand years ago with the struggles of Vietnam in the twentieth century to regain independence from foreign occupiers.

Chick History: The Trung Sisters: Vietnam’s First Nationalists

 

[ephone]

That is why I have to say that vietnamese like you are just ignorant p.o.s..

China has donated tons of weapons, food, logistic support, trained your armies, sent army volunteers, a.k.a, regular armies, into vn to fight both French and U.S., while our own people were starved to death.

Without China's protection and threat to direct mass intervention, U.S. would have direction gotten into northern vn and bombed the shxt out of those northern viet gong.

you ungrateful bastards really deserved those bombs on your head.

Early vn war, China against the France, helping the n. vn to shake hands with France to divide Vietnam in Geneva conference for Vietnam 1954. so France was first country in the west recognized Communist China of Mao.
Later vn war, China against U.S., helping the n. vn only to 1968 to make his position to discuss with Nixon 1972 and normalization diplomacy relation with US, enemy of Vietnam in Vietnam war.
Border conflict with vn during the 80s, is consequency of that China was backed Khmer Rouge in cambodia to attack Vietnam from 1976-1978. When Khmer Rouge was wiped out by Cambodia people with help of Vietnam. China droped his mask and himself attacke on Vietnam 1979.



Read my answer above, You can understand that why Vietnamese people look bad at Chinese CPC leaders (Mao, Dang Xiaoping ...) and such extremists in China.

 

[Wholegrain]

Vietnamese society is patrilineal and patriarchal. Surnames and property are inherited from the father and the man controls the house. The Le dynasty especially adopted Confucianism heavily after Ming rule in Vietnam. Dai Viet then invaded Champa, which was the real matrilineal society. In Champa, inheritence is passed through the female line and their society is matrilineal. Their women had more rights than Vietnamese women. When the Le dynasty invaded Vietnam in 1471, it used Confucian language like "spreading righteousness" to the "uncivilized" and "barbarian" Cham people. The Patriarchal and Patrilineal Vietnamese considered the Cham and their matrilineal practices and the freedom that they gave their women as barbaric.

Blood and Soil

Blood and Soil

The Flaming Womb

Societies, Networks, and Transitions: Volume I: A Global History

Encyclopaedia of the South-east Asian ethnography - Google knygos

Champa and the Archaeology of Mỹ S¡n (Vietnam) - Google knygos

Law and the Chinese in Southeast Asia - Google knygos

The Nguyen lords dumped thousands of Chinese refugees from the Ming dynasty (Minh Huong) and their Vietnamese wives on Cham and Khmer land in southern Vietnam because they were afraid they would loose it to the "barbarian" Cham and khmer.

And neither the Nguyen, Trinh, nor Mac lords declared themselves Emperor, they recognized the Le dynasty as their rulers so they considered themselves one country. When China was divided, all the rival rulers declared themselves Emperor and didn't recognize one dynasty as their ruler.

okay, Chinese seem to have a different concept of nationalism. The Viet never called other Viet as foreigner, even in times when there were two Viet Kingdoms, the Nguyen (North) and the Trinh (South).

Let me re-post this historic event of the rebellion of Trung sisters. As daughters of a noble Vietnamese family, the Trung sisters were in line to inherit their father’s land and titles. According to Chinese law, they could not.


The Trưng sisters
Trưng Trắc (徵 &#20596 and Trưng Nhị (徵 &#36019 | (ca. 12 - AD 43)

“All the male heroes bowed their heads in submission; 
Only the two sisters proudly stood up to avenge the country.” 
 - 15th century poem

For over a thousand years, the Chinese Han Dynasty ruled over Vietnam as a colonial power. Vietnam had resources, people, and most importantly, the Red River Delta. The Red River Delta is an area in the north of the country that was cultivated for wet rice production, was an important international trading port, and was the land from where the Vietnamese traced their origins. The Han Dynasty had been encroaching on the Lac Lords of Vietnam, the heads of the feudal system that was the foundation of Vietnamese culture. These were the landed aristocrats that had been the ruling noble class for over two millennia.

At first working together in trade and negotiations, the relationship grew authoritarian, and the Chinese began to tax, subjugate, and forcibly assimilate the Vietnamese into the Chinese Empire. By 111 BC, the Han Dynasty had complete control over Vietnam and had divided the kingdom into territories that were ruled by Chinese appointed governors.

Fast-forward 150 years to 39 AD and we meet one such Chinese governor, To Dinh, who ruled over the Me Linh prefecture. The Vietnamese Lord of this prefecture was General Lac, who had two daughters, Trung Trac and Trung Nhi. The two daughters grew up in a military household and were trained in the art of warfare, weaponry, and martial arts. When it came time for a marriage for the eldest daughter Trac, she married the son of the neighboring prefecture who also hailed from a military noble family. Together these two noble families created a powerful military alliance.

China’s repressive regime, taxation of goods, imprisonment of “uncooperative” Vietnamese, and confiscation of lands was causing open hostility among the aristocracy and peasant populations. Most importantly for our heroines, the Chinese replaced the Vietnamese matriarchal family-system with its strict patriarchal system with rigid social control. This is the kiss of death for any society with any form of equality between the sexes. Just ask our friends Cleopatra and her daughter Selene.

As daughters of a noble Vietnamese family, the Trung sisters were in line to inherit their father’s land and titles. According to Chinese law, they could not. Then, the unthinkable happened. Trac’s husband was executed for protesting a new tax imposed by To Dinh. Trac and Nhi’s inheritance, livelihood, and way of life were in jeopardy. Trac refused to go into mourning and instead she and her sister put all their military training to work and began mobilizing the remaining noblemen and peasants to their cause. Their goal was to oust Governor To Dinh and return Vietnam to an independent kingdom. They organized an army of 30,000 soldiers and led them into battle.

In literature and art the Trung sisters charge into battle atop elephants with swords drawn. Surrounding them are the armies raised by the lords from their individual prefectures. At the head of these armies were the generals the Trung sisters chose to be commanders. Temples dedicated to the Trung sisters that remain today list the leaders and generals of their army. The majority of them are women, including their own mother. One of the generals was a woman named Phing Thi Chinh, who according to legend, gave birth during the revolution and would fight in battle with her newborn strapped to her back.

But why would so many follow two women? Trung Trac and Trung Nhi were also descendants of Lac Long Quân, the original Dragon Lord, the founder of the Vietnamese people. According to their creation myth, The Dragon Lord’s wife laid 100 eggs that would go on to become the 100 noble families of Vietnam. Trac and Nhi’s family were one of those elite. As a matriarchal society were women could hold equal ranking as men, following two women who claimed to be descendents of the Dragon Lord seemed like a no brainer.

Within several months, the Trung sisters had liberated 65 northern citadels in Vietnam and ousted the repressive governor. Trac now commanded an army of 80,000 soldiers. She proclaimed herself Queen of an independent Vietnam and established her capital in her hometown at Me Linh. Some records indicate Nhi was the better warrior. If this is true, it would seem that the Trung sisters followed the typical royal family model of the eldest child being crowned monarch and the younger child named commander of the nation’s army. Other accounts tell us that the two sisters ruled as co-regents of the newly independent Vietnam.

Trac’s reign was dedicated to restoring Vietnam back to its traditional ways. She immediately ended all tributary taxes to China, distributed the treasury of the governor back to the Lac Lords, and attempted to return to a feudal political system. For almost three years, the Trung sisters successfully fought and held off the Chinese, who were not going to give up the Red River Delta so easily.

In 43 AD, the Chinese sent a new General Marshal Ma Yuan to deal with the Trung Sisters. This time, the Han Emperor put all his resources into the army and taking back Vietnam. Many of the original lords and supporters of the Trung Sisters had returned to their land, taking their armies with them. What was left was no match for the invading Chinese army and they defeated the Trung sisters and put Vietnam back under colonial control. According to Chinese history, the Trung sisters were executed. According to Vietnamese history, they committed suicide by drowning in a river to maintain their honor.

Centuries later, the Trung sisters became heroes and the first Vietnamese nationalists. A seventh-century retelling imagines Trac’s declaration to her army as putting her duty to country first over her duty to family:

“Foremost, I will avenge my country,
Second, I will restore the Hung lineage,
Third, I will avenge the death of my husband,
Lastly, I vow that these goals will be accomplished”

As with all national heroes, the Trung sisters’ exploits have become epic over time. In one account, they kill a tiger that no one had been able to capture and then write their manifesto on its skin. Every February, there is a celebration held in their honor commemorating their martyrdoms. They remain unifying national heroes to the Vietnamese identify and their association with rebellion against invasion is still evoked today. This poignant video compares the Trung sister’s rebellion against China almost two thousand years ago with the struggles of Vietnam in the twentieth century to regain independence from foreign occupiers.

Chick History: The Trung Sisters: Vietnam’s First Nationalists

 

[Wholegrain]

No,most Southern Chinese are natives,for example in Guangdong,at least 40% of their paternal lineage and 80% maternal line are netive.O1-M119 make up 30% of Zhejiang males,while less than 4% of northern Chinese

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@EastSea

Do you know how to do math?

40% of Guangdong (Cantonese) paternal lineage being native, means that 60% of their paternal lineage is from northern Han people.

30% of Zhejiang paternal lineage being native, means that 70% of their paternal lineage is from northern Han.

That means in both cases, the majority of their paternal ancestry (from their father's side) is from northern Han people.

That's exactly what it said in the links I posted.

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google knygos

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google knygos

 

[sahaliyan]

@EastSea

Do you know how to do math?

40% of Guangdong (Cantonese) paternal lineage being native, means that 60% of their paternal lineage is from northern Han people.

30% of Zhejiang paternal lineage being native, means that 70% of their paternal lineage is from northern Han.

That means in both cases, the majority of their paternal ancestry (from their father's side) is from northern Han people.

That's exactly what it said in the links I posted.

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google knygos

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google knygos

Autosomal DNA is more important to a person(because this will influence your look),one person has both father and mother
Of a Chinese went to Africa and mixed with Africans generations,Do you consider his descendants Chinese?

 

[EastSea]

That is why I have to say that vietnamese like you are just ignorant p.o.s..

China has donated tons of weapons, food, logistic support, trained your armies, sent army volunteers, a.k.a, regular armies, into vn to fight both French and U.S., while our own people were starved to death.

Without China's protection and threat to direct mass intervention, U.S. would have direction gotten into northern vn and bombed the shxt out of those northern viet gong.

you ungrateful bastards really deserved those bombs on your head.

there was cold war, Taiwan was protected by US, member of UN, China used Vietnam war to figting against US to last Vietnamese. To kiss @ of US China attacked Soviet 1969 and stopped help to Vietnam to send signals to US to shake hands with US in back of Vietnam 1972 when war was going on brutally.

North VN was not puppet of China, Communists Vietnam won US and re-unified Vietnam, because the Help of Soviets and socialist countries until end of war 1975. Its was much more, bigger than China. But they didn't calculated like idiot Chinese, policy smuggler.

Chinese traitor with her betrayal policy don't have moral-right to talk about morality of humankind.