History Of The Freemasons

[TexasJohn]

Oh and I missed the Christian part. The Scottish rite does not need you to be a Christian. I could Google up another bunch of groups who also call themselves "Knights" who won't even ask you for a religious affiliation. I at least know of one group that calls itself the Jewish (open to Jews) Knights Templar. Seems like they are too poor to have a website.

Scottish Rite / About Scottish Rite / FAQ

ARE THERE ANY RELIGIOUS DISQUALIFICATIONS?
The Scottish Rite does not intrude on the religious beliefs of its members, but it does require that its adherents profess a belief in a Supreme Being, and urges its members to be active in their respective houses of worship. It does not attempt to teach any creed nor pretend to be a religion nor a substitute for religion. Scottish Rite practices universality.


Anyway, my claim is that unless you can either 1) Prove that you are somehow related to the original Knights and are a rebel group or 2) Get a papal authority to be a Knight (or one from British Queen, head of Anglican church), you are not really a Knight. You are just a bunch of guys using an old name to make yourselves sound cool.

You have your facts wrong again. It is true there is no direct connection between the Knights of old and us - I don't remember making that claim.

The Scottish Rite is a different branch of the Masons from the York Rite ( the degrees I mentioned)

The Scottish right does not specify being a Christian - I know Shriners that are Jewish and muslim.

The York Rite on the other hand DOES require you to declare Christianity as your faith.

Atheists are not allowed in Freemasonry.

You are confusing the Knights of Columbus with Knights Templar. KoC have the blessing of the Vatican, The Knights Templar do not! They had the blessings of the Crown and Church of England.

I have never even heard of Jewish "Knights", certainly they are not a part of us.

Masonry has three pillars ,Faith, Hope and Charity. Charity is the main thing.

Have you ever heard of the Scottish Rite Hospitals for Children? they are worldwide. We never charge a single red cent for treatment, it's free, and it's for the kids.

They also have the Shriners Circus which is to raise money for Charity.

The differences between York and Scottish rites are best explained by this link.

The York And Scottish Rites Compared

Feel free to become the Amir of "Hash...whatever it is".

You can also believe what you like about the Masons. Your knowledge in their activities is somewhat limited, I can tell..

It's all about wanting to give a little back to humanity and those less fortunate.. like saying thanks to the almighty ( as you know him)

 

[wtf]

Its like beating your head against the wall .. repeatedly .. and wtf .. WTF? .. I didnt see him post anywhere he was carrying a sword and shield? And you have something against cool names for clubs? what was your whole point?

WTF, wtf, wtf... it's like an echo chamber in here

I have nothing against cool names for clubs. I hate it when someone picks up a historically important one and then ends up acting all too cool.I find it childish.
http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2009/04/28/

My point was that just because you re-use an old name you don't really become a Knight. At the very least you'd want ideological continuity.

Look at the definition of a Knight (from wiktionary, but other dictionaries will say the same).
# A warrior, especially of the Middle Ages.
# Nowadays, a person on whom a knighthood has been conferred by a monarch.

It is a European title for what would go as today's officer. The Queen continues to award the title. You can't just start calling yourself a knight (Just as calling yourself a King or an Amir won't make you one).

Similarly the Templar part - the original Templars were an institution started by Papal authority. When the Pope took the authority (and money) away, the real Templars stopped to exist. Sort of like a public company - it only exists as long as the state authorizes it.Once that is gone, the company ceases to exist and trademarks and assets etc. revert to the state or go to the creditors.

 

[wtf]

It's all about wanting to give a little back to humanity and those less fortunate.. like saying thanks to the almighty ( as you know him)

I have nothing against all of this. You can run hospitals, charities etc. What I am specifically against is calling yourselves Knights Templar.
My interest in Knights Templar is due to their banking - it was a big step in European banking to be able to transfer money through time (interests, safekeeping) and from place to place (deposit in france, collect in England). The modern day KT can't fight for Jerusalem, nor are bankers. Why reuse an old name and cause confusion. And even worse, you can't even trademark that name - Look at all the stupid lawsuits between different groups that call themselves the Knights

Complaint Knights Templar


If you don't share their worldviews and if you don't have continuity, why can't you just call yourselves something nice, like "Missionaries of Charity" or something ? (OK, not that specific one, that's taken).

BTW, I am not confusing you with Knights of Columbus. I've seen their headquarters in New Haven and seen their processions in Hamden in summer.I know they are Catholic.

 

[wtf]

Feel free to become the Amir of "Hash...whatever it is".

Hashishins were a sect of Muslims (currently Ismayelis) who fought battles. They were rumoured to go into battles under influence of Hashish (a narcotic). That is where the name Assassin comes from - because they made political assassinations a powerful tool of influence.

The original sect is dead. But there are a bunch of Ismayeli sects around (none use Hashish).

What I was trying to say is that just because I can register the name somewhere and start an NGO, I am not REALLY a hashishin. That name has a place in history.

And about my knowledge being limited -- I certainly don't know much about your organization. But I have researched enough about the real knights to get a picture of what they were like. (Again, as I said, focused on financial side, not the people). I also have met more people than I care for who all claimed to be Knights of Templar in some form or other.

 

[wtf]

Atheists are not allowed in Freemasonry.

Bull. Maybe not in your particular club.

Welcome on the website of the Grand Orient de France !
Grand Orient de France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TexasJohn]

Bull. Maybe not in your particular club.

Welcome on the website of the Grand Orient de France !
Grand Orient de France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The links you provided have NOTHING to do with the Freemasons.

The Ancient Free and Accepted Masons are called speculative masons. If you understand THAT term, you would understand why there are Knights Templar today.

Continental Masons are something different.

Again NO atheist can ever be made a Mason. That is part of our screening process. I have served in that commitee several times.

What is so amazing about you, is as little as you yourself admit to know about the Masons, you are fairly adamant in your ignorance of them. I feel for you. Were you ever turned down from joining then?

 

[wtf]

The links you provided have NOTHING to do with the Freemasons.

The Ancient Free and Accepted Masons are called speculative masons. If you understand THAT term, you would understand why there are Knights Templar today.

Continental Masons are something different.

Again NO atheist can ever be made a Mason. That is part of our screening process. I have served in that commitee several times.

What is so amazing about you, is as little as you yourself admit to know about the Masons, you are fairly adamant in your ignorance of them. I feel for you. Were you ever turned down from joining then?

What I am saying is that they have as much right to the name as you have. .You don't have a trademark on that name in France, do you ? And the Continental/American divide - Freemasons were started on the continent, so were the knights. I would say they have more right to the name than you do.

That specific group who also call themselves Freemasons, will allow atheists to join. It is apparently why they split from other Freemasons.

BTW, you really have to stop the personal attacks. Each of the posts of yours said "you are ignorant", "you know nothing" and now "were you turned down". You just caused me to disbelieve any of the claims you made about Charity, Faith, whatever else. You are (indirectly) discrediting your group, since you are speaking for them and doing that in a not-so-nice way.

I have no interest in Templars except historical. My opposition to you using the term is because I don't think you calling yourselves that makes you a real knight.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

No Knights Templer exist in the Moderen Times. Even if there exist any they would be the generations living in Scotland.

 

[TexasJohn]

No Knights Templer exist in the Moderen Times. Even if there exist any they would be the generations living in Scotland.

OK! have it your way. We are a figment of your imagination. Why then the various conspiracy theories? you started the thread remember?

wtf- If you don't mind, regardless of what you think, I think we will continue to call ourselves Knights. If you do mind, we will continue to do so anyway..

Discussion concluded?

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

OK! have it your way. We are a figment of your imagination. Why then the various conspiracy theories? you started the thread remember?

What i got was The Masons are the desendents of the Knights Templer. But being a Desendent dosent makes you the Knight Templer. Its like if i am the Desendet of Mughal then i would call my selves as the Emperor os Subcontinent ofcourse not.

Regards
the elements of life.

 

[TexasJohn]

What i got was The Masons are the desendents of the Knights Templer. But being a Desendent dosent makes you the Knight Templer. Its like if i am the Desendet of Mughal then i would call my selves as the Emperor os Subcontinent ofcourse not.

Regards
the elements of life.

I don't remember ever saying the Masons are the descendants of the Knight Templar..

unfortunately when I point out the inaccuracies in wtf's information, his feelings get hurt.

I am trying to figure out the point you guys are trying to make.

Are we supposed to be this ultra secret society that works in the background controlling the planet?

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Are we supposed to be this ultra secret society that works in the background controlling the planet?

I think looking at the info available we can conclude this.

 

[TexasJohn]

I think looking at the info available we can conclude this.

Your information is flawed. But have it your way!!

We will continue to be the " silent force" behind it all...

 

[DarkStar]

The links you provided have NOTHING to do with the Freemasons.

The Ancient Free and Accepted Masons are called speculative masons. If you understand THAT term, you would understand why there are Knights Templar today.

Continental Masons are something different.

Again NO atheist can ever be made a Mason. That is part of our screening process. I have served in that commitee several times.

What is so amazing about you, is as little as you yourself admit to know about the Masons, you are fairly adamant in your ignorance of them. I feel for you. Were you ever turned down from joining then?

Well, my uncle who is a staunch muslim, is also a free mason. Although I personally found it weird that he joined, I was surprised that as a muslim he actually could.

 

[TexasJohn]

Well, my uncle who is a staunch muslim, is also a free mason. Although I personally found it weird that he joined, I was surprised that as a muslim he actually could.

Absolutely!! I am glad to hear that. For we call the Blue Lodge ( Master Mason) you simply have to believe in God. I wish I could meet him some day. Is he in Pakistan or the US?

10 years ago, I visited a Lodge In Bombay, India. While we in the US have a Bible, in India they had holy books from several religions. The quaran was one of them!