History of China

[Peter]

It could be.

In, around or even later than Qin, South was a generally very uncivilized area compared with the Middle Land. The South only possessed preliminary technologies such as planting rice in paddy fields, etc.

南蛮means "Southern Barbarians". That's what it was.

I tend to believe that today's Vietnam might be formed from a couple of ancient "Hundred Viets". Maybe.

That doesn't make sense! If the South only possessed preliminary technologies such as planting rice in paddy fields, etc ... then what is the "Southern Barbarians" meant? Barbarians are such as "planting rice in paddy fields" people?

 

[Peter]

That doesn't make sense! If the South only possessed preliminary technologies such as planting rice in paddy fields, etc ... then what is the "Southern Barbarians" meant? Barbarians are such as "planting rice in paddy fields" people?

Isn't it, "barbarian" - an individual reference to a brutal, cruel, warlike, insensitive person?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Isn't it, "barbarian" - an individual reference to a brutal, cruel, warlike, insensitive person?

Bro, these so-called "Southern Barbarians" have nothing to do with the modern Vietnamese.

 

[Peter]

Bro, these so-called "Southern Barbarians" have nothing to do with the modern Vietnamese.

So, who are "Southern Barbarians" and who are the modern Vietnamese then?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

So, who are "Southern Barbarians" and who are the modern Vietnamese then?

Vietnam means the South of Yue, which is not Yue itself.

And i am also sure that the ancient Bai Yue should look much closer to the modern Chinese in appearance than they do to the modern Vietnamese who are heavily mixed with the Southeast Asians.

 

[S10]

So, who are "Southern Barbarians" and who are the modern Vietnamese then?

Southern barbarians were more of a term describing people in Yunnan and Guangxi, sometimes even Guangdong that were not of Han culture.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Southern barbarians were more of a term describing people in Yunnan and Guangxi, sometimes even Guangdong that were not of Han culture.

Still, the ancient indigenous inhabitants of Guangdong was not Vietnamese.

I saw a lot of ignorant North Chinese guys who said that Cantonese looks exactly like Vietnamese. lol, stereotyping does not always represent the truth.

 

[Twain Shakespeare]

From the emergence of China as a unified state in the third century
B.C. until the collapse of the Qing Dynasty in 1912, China
stood at the center of an East Asian international system of
remarkable durability. The Chinese Emperor was
conceived of (and recognized by most neighboring states)
as the pinnacle of a universal political hierarchy, with all
other states’ rulers theoretically serving as vassals.

2 Any attempt to understand China’s
twentieth-century diplomacy or its twenty-first-century world
role must begin—even at the cost of some potential
oversimplification—with a basic appreciation of the
traditional context.

--Henry A. Kissinger
New York, January 2011[/QUOTE]

This is why I look forward to the Pax Sinica. We know how China will tend to behave as world hegemon, because, for most of the last two thousand years, they were arguably the hegemon.

 

[S10]

Still, the ancient indigenous inhabitants of Guangdong was not Vietnamese.

I saw a lot of ignorant North Chinese guys who said that Cantonese looks exactly like Vietnamese. lol, stereotyping does not always represent the truth.

No, 越南 in China means Viet South, so Viet does not actually refer to Vietnamese.

Hell, I've been called a 南蛮 by some northerners simply because I was from Guangdong. Some of that attitude still persists.

 

[pandarunner]

No, 越南 in China means Viet South, so Viet does not actually refer to Vietnamese.

Hell, I've been called a 南蛮 by some northerners simply because I was from Guangdong. Some of that attitude still persists.

No way, they seriously called you that?

Truly, the history I have learned highlight way too much the superiority of Huaxia while chosing to count other tribes' ingenious cultural creation as genes of Huaxia. Thereafter quite a few Han Chinese know nothing about what other tribes have done in acient times, let alone appreciate.

When I meet some ultra Han Chinese on a forum, I usually call myself a 楚蛮 though I am Han Chinese from Hunan.
They just need to go back to school and find themselves a good teacher.

 

[siegecrossbow]

No, 越南 in China means Viet South, so Viet does not actually refer to Vietnamese.

Hell, I've been called a 南蛮 by some northerners simply because I was from Guangdong. Some of that attitude still persists.

Call them 鞑子 next time they do that.

 

[milvipes]

南蛮 usually refers to Tibeto-Burman tribes such as 彝族 and some times Hmong-Mienh (苗&#34542。夷 originally meant other Sino-Tibetan peoples who shared the Central Plain with Sinitic tribes, but later became associated with Kra-Dai peoples (Thai, Zhuang, Laos, etc.). 越 could be either Khmer-Viet or Kra-Dai. 越 is probably the single most significant non-Sinitic genetic influence among southern Han people.

 

[Peter]

Call them 鞑子 next time they do that.

During the Yuan Dynasty, when the Chinese people were suffer under horse hoof of Mongolians - thousands of Chineses fled South to Vietnam and (begged) asked for 借宿 from the King of Tran Dynasty ( 陳朝 1225-1400). Together with Tran Dynasty's army they all fought against the Mongolian invasion sucessfully 3 times. Vietnamese soldiers did tatoo 2 words: "殺韃" on their arm as a sign of "fight to the death" to protect their beloved Vietnam.

Not just the Yuan Dynasty that Chineses fled to the south entering Vietnam, but during the Qing Dynasty as well. Vietnam had came to aid and help Chineses during those wartimes when Chineses lost their country, families, husbands, wives, children etc ... Yet, because of the rich natural resources in Southeast Asia Sea now that tension between the countries has risen in verbal-war from members of both China and Vietnam!

How sad, is it!?

Like Oriental people have said that it is easy to share everything when people are all poor, but to fight for everything when people are all getting rich.

What do you all learn from history?

 

[S10]

During the Yuan Dynasty, when the Chinese people were suffer under horse hoof of Mongolians - thousands of Chineses fled South to Vietnam and (begged) asked for 借宿 from the King of Tran Dynasty ( 陳朝 1225-1400). Together with Tran Dynasty's army they all fought against the Mongolian invasion sucessfully 3 times. Vietnamese soldiers did tatoo 2 words: "殺韃" on their arm as a sign of "fight to the death" to protect their beloved Vietnam.

Not just the Yuan Dynasty that Chineses fled to the south entering Vietnam, but during the Qing Dynasty as well. Vietnam had came to aid and help Chineses during those wartimes when Chineses lost their country, families, husbands, wives, children etc ... Yet, because of the rich natural resources in Southeast Asia Sea now that tension between the countries has risen in verbal-war from members of both China and Vietnam!

How sad, is it!?

Like Oriental people have said that it is easy to share everything when people are all poor, but to fight for everything when people are all getting rich.

What do you all learn from history?

Times change and enemies change. Mongolia isn't trying to claim a bunch of islands in dispute, Vietnam is. Mongolia as of today is harmless to the Chinese, but I can't say the same for Vietnam.

 

[no_name]

I had intended to post this in the 中国同胞们看过来 thread but apparently it has been closed.

I found this nice blog-thread that discuss China from a geo-political and historical point of view (in chinese, sorry). It has a total of 400+ pages currently and I'm past 150 mark.

Please ignore the original topic of the thread because it eventually goes alot broader than discussing the topic issue:

Ó¡¶ÈÓëÖйúµÄµØÔµÇé¿ö¶Ô±È£¨¶àͼ£© / ±ÉÊÓÇÀɳ·¢µÄ / µÚ1Ò³-[ÌìÑÄ]