What's new

History Made- SpaceX lands first stage of its Falcon 9 orbital rocket back on land!

Awesome feat! That's the US we have gotten used to see over the decades. Great to see it create history in space yet again!

A noob question! Wouldn't it have been far easier and economical to just land it gently using giant parachutes? Or even just get it gliding on a runway just like the shuttle did?

Any experts here as to why it had to be landed in upright position at such a huge cost (rocket fuel) and complexity?

@gambit @Penguin

Every component is 100% reusable in the first stage. If you do a water landing, you'll destroy sensitive equipment onboard.

Landing on hard ground will damage equipment even more. There's quite a velocity and subsequent force when things hit ground via parachutes.
 
.
Every component is 100% reusable in the first stage. If you do a water landing, you'll destroy sensitive equipment onboard.

Landing on hard ground will damage equipment even more. There's quite a velocity and subsequent force when things hit ground via parachutes.

What about getting the the first stage glide like a shuttle to land on an airstrip? Wouldn't that be relatively fuel-economical and easier to control?

Not sure if SpaceX intends to send humans and back with such a rocket landing.
 
. .
What about getting the the first stage glide like a shuttle to land on an airstrip? Wouldn't that be relatively fuel-economical and easier to control?

Not sure if SpaceX intends to send humans and back with such a rocket landing.

The space shuttle has wings for flight control. The Falcon 9 is a rocket booster. It can't glide.

I presume it is cheaper to use a re-usable rocket booster than to re-use a space-plane with moving parts.

Look at the Sierra Nevada-That's similar to what you're asking.
 
.
The space shuttle has wings for flight control. The Falcon 9 is a rocket booster. It can't glide.

I presume it is cheaper to use a re-usable rocket booster than to re-use a space-plane with moving parts.

Look at the Sierra Nevada-That's similar to what you're asking.

NASA, CNES Warn SpaceX of Challenges in Flying Reusable Falcon 9 Rocket | On Space
"In theory, the SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 booster can be reused more than three-dozen times.

That's because the rocket's LOX/Kerosene Merlin 1D engine -- nine of which power its first stage -- has a cycle of 40, according to Stella Guillen, SpaceX director of business development.

"It's not obviously the entire system or the entire stage," she said during a space conference in Paris last month. “We don't know how many times we can fly the first stage. But the engines have a cycle of 40.”
 
.
NASA, CNES Warn SpaceX of Challenges in Flying Reusable Falcon 9 Rocket | On Space
"In theory, the SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 booster can be reused more than three-dozen times.

That's because the rocket's LOX/Kerosene Merlin 1D engine -- nine of which power its first stage -- has a cycle of 40, according to Stella Guillen, SpaceX director of business development.

"It's not obviously the entire system or the entire stage," she said during a space conference in Paris last month. “We don't know how many times we can fly the first stage. But the engines have a cycle of 40.”

And? I know about it already, thanks.
 
Last edited:
.
Is it possible to get into orbit via aerodynamic exploitation ? Yes. The SR-71 proved it is possible.

No, that does not mean the SR-71 went into space. But what it does mean is that the SR-71 used conventional aerodynamic flight to achieve an altitude where aerodynamic efficiency on its flight control surfaces decreases to near zero. Basically, atmospheric density is too thin.

Density Effects on Aerodynamic Forces

With increasingly thin air to lift the body and to use as a catalyst for propulsion, as jet engines needs oxygen to burn, the ratio of fuel to air increases to the point where it is only fuel left -- rocketry. Since the SR-71 never left atmospheric flight, its engines remain fuel-air ratio burners, not rocket motors like the ones used by the Space Shuttle or Delta rockets.

Making a rocket land vertically is a natural evolution of using rockets. Turning a disposable vehicle into a reusable one. What next is a new type of propulsion that will allow us to use aerodynamics to take off, achieve as high an altitude as possible via atmospheric flight, then boost the vehicle into orbit at the appropriate point. It will mean a new vehicle design with wings, like the Space Shuttle, except this new vehicle will be powered at all times.

There are advantages and disadvantages for both methods. Vertical TO and Landing requires less ground space but relies heavily on vehicle's propulsion. Aerodynamic exploitation requires more ground space -- runways -- but relies more on the atmosphere for lift. If propulsion is not a problem, as in theoretically unlimited quantity, then no need for wings. But since fuel is a variable, as in consumption which inevitably leads to fuel quantity of zero, why not use wings even though the wings are useless in space ? So unless there is a way to use gravity, as in anti-gravity, then the debate on which method is best depends on what the vehicle is being used for.

Finally...The group that will benefit the most in terms of technical and engineering prestige is the control group, as in the scientists and engineers that must design the control systems necessary to keep the rocket upright, systems such as precision small attitude rockets, computers, control laws, algorithms, and many other sub-systems.
 
.
2014 interview
time 1:10

Mars Colonial Transporter will be "100 times the size of an SUV", and capable of taking 100 people at a time to Mars
 
. .
Will 2016 Be the Year Elon Musk Reveals his Mars Colonial Transporter Plans? - Universe Today

There are several space stories we’re anticipating for 2016 but one story might appear — to some — to belong in the realm of science fiction: sometime in the coming year Elon Musk will likely reveal his plans for colonizing Mars.

Early in 2015, Musk hinted that he would be publicly disclosing his strategies for the Mars Colonial Transport system sometime in late 2015, but then later said the announcement would come in 2016.

“The Mars transport system will be a completely new architecture,” Musk said during a Reddit AMA in January 2015, replying to a question about the development of MCT. “ am hoping to present that towards the end of this year. Good thing we didn’t do it sooner, as we have learned a huge amount from Falcon and Dragon.”

Big Rockets
As far as any details, Musk only said that he wants to be able to send 100 colonists to Mars at a time, and the “goal is 100 metric tons of useful payload to the surface of Mars. This obviously requires a very big spaceship and booster system.”

He has supposedly dubbed the rocket the BFR (for Big F’n Rocket) and the spaceship similarly as BFS.

And he wants it to be reusable, which Musk and SpaceX have said is the key to making human life multiplanetary. The recent successful return and vertical landing of the Falcon 9’s first stage makes that closer to reality than ever.

While SpaceX has no publicly shared concept illustrations as of yet, a few enthusiasts on the web have shared their visions of MCT, such as the lead image in the article by Reddit user P3rkoz, and the drawing below by engineer John Gardi, who recently proposed his ideas for the MCT on Reddit.


A sketch shows how the top section of the Mars Colonial Transporter might be configured. Credit: John Gardi.

Most online discussions describe the MCT as an interplanetary ferry, with the spaceship built on the ground and launched into orbit in one piece and perhaps refueled in low Earth orbit. The transporter could be powered by Raptor engines, which are cryogenic methane-fueled rocket engines rumored to be under development by SpaceX.


The future line-up of Falcon rockets is compared to the famous NASA Saturn V. The first Falcon Heavy launch is planned for 2015. Raptor engines may replace and upgrade Heavy then lead to Falcon X, Falcon X Heavy and Falcon XX. The Falcon X 1st stage would have half the thrust of a Saturn V, Falcon X Heavy and XX would exceed a Saturn V’s thrust by nearly 50%. (Illustration Credit: SpaceX, 2010)

The Challenge of Landing Large Payloads on Mars
While the big rocket and spaceship may seem to be a big hurdle, an even larger challenge is how to land a payload of 100 metric tons with 100 colonists, as Musk proposes, on Mars surface.

As we’ve discussed previously, there is a “Supersonic Transition Problem” at Mars. Mars’ thin atmosphere does not provide an enough aerodynamics to land a large vehicle like we can on Earth, but it is thick enough that thrusters such as what was used by the Apollo landers can’t be used without encountering aerodynamic problems such as sheering and incredible stress on the vehicle.


Another fan-based illustration of the modular sections of John Gardi’s MCT concept sitting on the surface of Mars. Credit: George Worthington. Used by permission.

“Unique to Mars, there is a velocity-altitude gap below Mach 5,” explained Rob Manning from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in our article from 2007. “The gap is between the delivery capability of large entry systems at Mars and the capability of super-and sub-sonic decelerator technologies to get below the speed of sound.”

With current landing technology, a large, heavy human-sized vehicle streaking through Mars’ thin, volatile atmosphere only has about 90 seconds to slow from Mach 5 to under Mach 1, change and re-orient itself from a being a spacecraft to a lander, deploy parachutes to slow down further, then use thrusters to translate to the landing site and gently touch down.

90 seconds is not enough time, and the airbags used for rovers like Spirit and Opportunity and even the Skycrane system used for the Curiosity rover can’t be scaled up enough to land the size of payloads needed for humans on Mars.


Artist’s rendering of a hypersonic inflatable aerodynamic decelerator technology concept. Credit: NASA.

NASA has been addressing this problem to a small degree, and has tested out inflatable aeroshells that can provide enough aerodynamic drag to decelerate and deliver larger payloads. Called Hypersonic Inflatable Aerodynamic Decelerator (HIAD), this is the best hope on the horizon for landing large payloads on Mars.

The Inflatable Reentry Vehicle Experiment (IRVE-3) was tested successfully in 2012. It was made of high tech fabric and inflated to create the shape and structure similar to a mushroom. When inflated, the IRVE-3 is about 10-ft (3 meter) in diameter, and is composed of a seven giant braided Kevlar rings stacked and lashed together – then covered by a thermal blanket made up of layers of heat resistant materials. These kinds of aeroshells can also generate lift, which would allow for additional slowing of the vehicle.

“NASA is currently developing and flight testing HIADs — a new class of relatively lightweight deployable aeroshells that could safely deliver more than 22 tons to the surface of Mars,” said Steve Gaddis, GCD manager at NASA’s Langley Research Center in a press release from NASA in September 2015.

NASA is expecting that a crewed spacecraft landing on Mars would weigh between 15 and 30 tons, and the space agency is looking for ideas through its Big Idea Challenge for how to create aeroshells big enough to do the job.

With current technology, landing the 100 metric tons that Musk envisions might be out of reach. But if there’s someone who could figure it out and get it done, Elon Musk just might be that person.

Additional reading: Alan Boyle on Geekwire, GQ interview of Elon Musk.
 
. . .
I have friends who are robotics and control engineers and they cheered the SpaceX crew. They understand the degrees of difficulties SpaceX engineers must have gone thru in order to make such a smooth landing.
 
.
SpaceX to Attempt Another Rocket Landing Sunday

SpaceX is planning to try another epic rocket landing during a satellite launch Sunday (Jan. 17), according to media reports.

The private spaceflight company aims to bring the first stage of its two-stage Falcon 9 rocket back for a soft touchdown on an uncrewed ship in the Pacific Ocean during Sunday's launch of the Jason-3 Earth-observation satellite from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.

The news was first reported by space journalist Charles Lurio via Twitter, and subsequently confirmed by NBC News.

SpaceX has already pulled off a rocket landing; a Falcon 9 first stage touched down at Florida's Cape Canaveral Air Force Station on Dec. 21 during the launch of 11 spacecraft for satellite-communications company Orbcomm. The milestone marked the first time a booster had ever landed softly during an orbital liftoff. (Blue Origin, a company headed by Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos, landed its New Shepard rocket during a suborbital test flight this past November.)

SpaceX has attemped a Falcon 9 sea landing twice before, once in January 2015 and again in April of that year. Both times, the rocket stage hit its target but came in too hard, toppling and exploding on the ship's deck.

These touchdown attempts are part of SpaceX's efforts to develop fully and rapidly reusable rockets, technology that company founder and CEO Elon Musk says could cut the cost of spaceflight by a factor of 100. Such dramatic price reductions could, in turn, make Mars colonization economically feasible, Musk has said.

The Jason-3 satellite is designed to measure variations in global sea level extremely precisely, allowing researchers to a get a better understanding of the ongoing effects of climate change. The spacecraft's observations will add to a dataset that has been accruing since the 1992 launch of the TOPEX/Poseidon mission.

The Jason-3 mission is a joint effort involving the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the European climate-satellite organization EUMETSAT, the French space agency CNES and NASA.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom