Hindu Shahi kings were not Janjua Rajputs of Punjab
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Proudpakistaniguy
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Were not this discussed before in here between you and Raja.Pakistani ? seem different historian different views. why felt the need to create a separate thread?
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-...akistanis-are-related-to-arabs.517259/page-17
The first Hindu Shahi dynasty was founded in AD 870 by Kallar . Kallar is well documented to be a Brahmin. The kingdom was bounded on the north by the Hindu kingdom of Kashmir, on the east by Rajput kingdoms, on the south by the Muslim Emirates of Multan and Mansura, and on the west by the Abbasid Caliphate.
According to the confused accounts recorded by Alberuni which are chiefly based on folklore, the last king of the first Shahi dynasty, Lagaturman (Katorman) was overthrown and imprisoned by his Brahmin Vizier Kallar, thus resulting in the change-over of dynasty.
The Hindu Shahi, a term used by history writer Alberuni to refer to the ruling Hindu dynasty that took over from the Turki Shahi and ruled the region during the period prior to Muslim conquests of the 10th and 11th centuries.
The term Hindu Shahi was a royal title of this dynasty and not its actual clan or ethnological name. Al-Biruni used the title Shah for many other contemporary royal houses in his descriptions as well.
It is very remarkable that Kalhana (c. 12th century), the author of Rajatarangini (written in AD 1147–49), also refers to the Shahis and does not maintain any difference or distinction between the earlier Shahis (RT IV.143) and the later Shahis or does not refer to any supplanting of the dynasty at any stage as Alberuni does in his Tarikh-al-Hind. etc., unbroken to as far as or earlier than AD 730. It is also remarkable that Rajatrangini and all other sources refer to the Shahi rulers of Udabhandapura/Waihind as belonging to the Kshatriya lineage in contrast to Alberuni who designates the earlier Shahi rulers as Turks and the later as Brahmins
Since the change of Shahi capital from Kabul to Waihind or Uddhabhandapura had also occurred precisely around this period, it is probable that the narrator of the folklore/tellatale to Alberuni had confused the "change of capital" issue with the "supplanting of Kabul Shahi dynasty" since the incidence of shift had occurred remotely about 200 years prior to Alberuni's writing (AD 1030). There is no doubt, as the scholars also admit, that the change in dynasty is effected by "a common legend of eastern story", which surely bears the express mark of folklore for the previous history of Kabul Shahis, hence obviously speculative and not much worthy of serious history
More
http://indiancoinsgks.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/brief-history-of-kabul-shahi-dynasty.html
http://malicethoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/raja-jayapala-and-janjua-rajput-dynasty.html
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-...akistanis-are-related-to-arabs.517259/page-17
The first Hindu Shahi dynasty was founded in AD 870 by Kallar . Kallar is well documented to be a Brahmin. The kingdom was bounded on the north by the Hindu kingdom of Kashmir, on the east by Rajput kingdoms, on the south by the Muslim Emirates of Multan and Mansura, and on the west by the Abbasid Caliphate.
According to the confused accounts recorded by Alberuni which are chiefly based on folklore, the last king of the first Shahi dynasty, Lagaturman (Katorman) was overthrown and imprisoned by his Brahmin Vizier Kallar, thus resulting in the change-over of dynasty.
The Hindu Shahi, a term used by history writer Alberuni to refer to the ruling Hindu dynasty that took over from the Turki Shahi and ruled the region during the period prior to Muslim conquests of the 10th and 11th centuries.
The term Hindu Shahi was a royal title of this dynasty and not its actual clan or ethnological name. Al-Biruni used the title Shah for many other contemporary royal houses in his descriptions as well.
It is very remarkable that Kalhana (c. 12th century), the author of Rajatarangini (written in AD 1147–49), also refers to the Shahis and does not maintain any difference or distinction between the earlier Shahis (RT IV.143) and the later Shahis or does not refer to any supplanting of the dynasty at any stage as Alberuni does in his Tarikh-al-Hind. etc., unbroken to as far as or earlier than AD 730. It is also remarkable that Rajatrangini and all other sources refer to the Shahi rulers of Udabhandapura/Waihind as belonging to the Kshatriya lineage in contrast to Alberuni who designates the earlier Shahi rulers as Turks and the later as Brahmins
Since the change of Shahi capital from Kabul to Waihind or Uddhabhandapura had also occurred precisely around this period, it is probable that the narrator of the folklore/tellatale to Alberuni had confused the "change of capital" issue with the "supplanting of Kabul Shahi dynasty" since the incidence of shift had occurred remotely about 200 years prior to Alberuni's writing (AD 1030). There is no doubt, as the scholars also admit, that the change in dynasty is effected by "a common legend of eastern story", which surely bears the express mark of folklore for the previous history of Kabul Shahis, hence obviously speculative and not much worthy of serious history
More
http://indiancoinsgks.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/brief-history-of-kabul-shahi-dynasty.html
http://malicethoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/raja-jayapala-and-janjua-rajput-dynasty.html
Brahmarshi
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Hindu Shahi Brahmins were Mohyal Brahmins from Plains of Central Punjab. why ?
1) Hindu Shahi Brahmins started using their Title Shahi as their surname.
2) only Brahmins with Shahi Surnames are Mohyals.
3) small number of Mohyal Brahmin migrated to North Bihar and merged with local warrior Brahmin Clans of Bhumihar.
4) only Bhumihar with Shahi surnames identify as Mohyal Bhumihars.
Tl;DR : only these 2 communities have Brahmins with Shahi surname and both belong to same community of Mohyal.
real Janjuas are Jats of Punjab who are not claiming "other" ancestry to feel good about themselves, hey are one of the most proudest Jats in the world.i have not seen or ever heard about Janjua Rajputs in Punjab.
hope this helps @Mian Babban
are there any hindu Mohyal in pakistan ? Mohyals today are trying hard to keep their status as Bramin alive.
they were considered non-Brahmins by orthodox Brahmins of north since centuries due to their complete rejection and ban of priestly duties and now this Hussini brahmin drama have caused more damage in their status among our community.
people used to tag them as kshatriyas who are trying hard to Pass as Brahmins and now some call them Muslims who are trying hard to pass as Brahmins. surnames like khan, sardar, sultan etc have also caused demise in their statues.
only Dutt clan is considered brahmins out of their 5 clans due to their power in Bollywood. (only, loser are orphans) they should take this meter seriously because if they get demoted to kshatriya level once, they will never regain their brahminhood in future.
60,000 Brahmiins of Atri, vishvamitra and Bhardwaj Tribes were demoted to Sudra level just 300 years ago, there is no sign of them today...
1) Hindu Shahi Brahmins started using their Title Shahi as their surname.
2) only Brahmins with Shahi Surnames are Mohyals.
3) small number of Mohyal Brahmin migrated to North Bihar and merged with local warrior Brahmin Clans of Bhumihar.
4) only Bhumihar with Shahi surnames identify as Mohyal Bhumihars.
Tl;DR : only these 2 communities have Brahmins with Shahi surname and both belong to same community of Mohyal.
real Janjuas are Jats of Punjab who are not claiming "other" ancestry to feel good about themselves, hey are one of the most proudest Jats in the world.i have not seen or ever heard about Janjua Rajputs in Punjab.
hope this helps @Mian Babban
are there any hindu Mohyal in pakistan ? Mohyals today are trying hard to keep their status as Bramin alive.
they were considered non-Brahmins by orthodox Brahmins of north since centuries due to their complete rejection and ban of priestly duties and now this Hussini brahmin drama have caused more damage in their status among our community.
people used to tag them as kshatriyas who are trying hard to Pass as Brahmins and now some call them Muslims who are trying hard to pass as Brahmins. surnames like khan, sardar, sultan etc have also caused demise in their statues.
only Dutt clan is considered brahmins out of their 5 clans due to their power in Bollywood. (only, loser are orphans) they should take this meter seriously because if they get demoted to kshatriya level once, they will never regain their brahminhood in future.
60,000 Brahmiins of Atri, vishvamitra and Bhardwaj Tribes were demoted to Sudra level just 300 years ago, there is no sign of them today...
Proudpakistaniguy
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^^^ Stop all this Bullshit
Hindu Shahi dynasty had been established by Kallar the Brahmin but later, in 964 AD, Raja Jyapala Janjua wrestled it from the descendants of Kallar. Sabaktagin, with the help of his Khalj and Afghan armies, defeated Jyapala at some point in Laghman driving him out of Kabul Valley and decisive battle between Mahmud and Jayapala occured somewhere near Peshawar.
Famed ethnologists and Indo researchers Sir Alexander Cunningham, Elliot and Dowson and Sachau led research into the origins of the Pala Hindu Shahi, the second dynasty that succeeded the initial Brahmin Dev Shahi. Through independent research they concluded that the origins of Emperor Jayapala Shah was in fact in the Janjua Rajput. In 1973's Al-Biruni International Congress in Pakistan, Dr Hussain Khan presented a paper in called "An Interpretation of Al-Biruni's Account of the Hindu Shahiyas of Kabul" which also confirmed the same findings. Finally, the Janjuas own genealogy records the names of the Janjua Shahi Jayapala as well as the continued descendants of his House. There are plenty of forts i.e Nandana, malot fort in salt range region of Punjab built by the successor of Hindu shahi king Jayapala Janjua
Hindu Shahi dynasty had been established by Kallar the Brahmin but later, in 964 AD, Raja Jyapala Janjua wrestled it from the descendants of Kallar. Sabaktagin, with the help of his Khalj and Afghan armies, defeated Jyapala at some point in Laghman driving him out of Kabul Valley and decisive battle between Mahmud and Jayapala occured somewhere near Peshawar.
Famed ethnologists and Indo researchers Sir Alexander Cunningham, Elliot and Dowson and Sachau led research into the origins of the Pala Hindu Shahi, the second dynasty that succeeded the initial Brahmin Dev Shahi. Through independent research they concluded that the origins of Emperor Jayapala Shah was in fact in the Janjua Rajput. In 1973's Al-Biruni International Congress in Pakistan, Dr Hussain Khan presented a paper in called "An Interpretation of Al-Biruni's Account of the Hindu Shahiyas of Kabul" which also confirmed the same findings. Finally, the Janjuas own genealogy records the names of the Janjua Shahi Jayapala as well as the continued descendants of his House. There are plenty of forts i.e Nandana, malot fort in salt range region of Punjab built by the successor of Hindu shahi king Jayapala Janjua
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Hindu Shahi kingdom from 850 AD to 900 AD (after that till 1001 AD they were limited to the eastern bank of the Indus) This was the independent Rajput Kingdom in Punjab
According to the Arab chronicler al-Biruni (973–1048 CE), the last Turk Shahi in the throne of Kabul was a certain Lagaturman, who was deposed by his Brahman minister Kallar in the middle of the 9th century CE. With the establishment of the Abbasid caliphate in 750 CE the situation had dramatically worsened for the still largely independent kingdoms in Zabul and Kabulistan. In 814/815 CE the Kabul Shah suffered a critical defeat against the troops of the Abbasid caliph al-Ma'mun (813–833 CE) (No. 13) and was forced to convert to Islam. Ma'mun's troops had even pushed into Gandhara on the Indus River. The annual tribute that the Kabul Shah subsequently had to pay the Abbasid governor of Khorasan entailed 1,500,000 dirhams and 2,000 slaves per year. The Turkic dynasty of kings, which had ruled Kabulistan and Gandhara for nearly 200 years, came to an end under these politically and economically tense circumstances. Under the new ruling dynasty, called the Hindu Shahis by al-Biruni, the political center of the kingdom successively moved from Kabul to Udabhandapura in Gandhara (present-day Hund, Pakistan), which offered more security from Arab attack.
And they did not have to wait for long: Yaqub bin Laith al-Saffar rose to be the most powerful man in East Iran around 861 CE; his first goal was Zabulistan, which he finally defeated in several campaigns in 870/871 CE. In the same year he continued on to Kabul, where the Kabul Shah was taken prisoner and the holy temple plundered. 50 standing statues of gods made of gold and silver are said to have fallen into his hands and were sent to the caliph in Baghdad. At his death Yaqub had transferred the government affairs to a vicegerent, but it seems that the Hindu Shahs managed to regain Kabul in 879 CE. The Samanid ruler Isma'il I (892–907 CE) ultimately drove out the Hindu Shahis around 900 CE (No. 3), but the dynasty remained in power in Gandhara and the Punjab until the beginning of the 11th century.
Hidefurther information
The coins of the Hindu Shahis display in the obverse a left-facing bull, the companion of the Hindu god Shiva; on the reverse is a rider carrying a lance with a flag (Nos. 1, 2). The inscriptions, composed in Brahmi, record various titles such as "Spalapati" (military commander) or "Samanta". The individual names of the specific rulers, as are known from written sources, are not given on the coins, making their attribution to the various kings nearly impossible. Kabul and Udabhandrapura in Gandhara are possible mints. The exceedingly rich silver coinage of the Hindu Shahis was most likely enabled largely from the silver mines of the Panjshir Valley (150 km north of Kabul). With the loss of Kabul to the Saffarids, Islamic coinage is documented there beginning in 872 to 883 CE. The first Samanid dirhams from the Panjshir valley are dated 293 AH (= 905 CE). The incorporation of Afghanistan in the Islamic world was thus completed fully and permanently. Nevertheless, the small kingdom in the Hindu Kush had successfully defended itself against Arab expansion for 250 years.
Following the death of the prophet Mohammad in 632 CE, the Arabs, carried by their new religion Islam, set out to conquer Byzantine Syria, Palestina, Egypt and North Africa, which they accomplished within a few years. The conquest of the Persian empire of the Sasanians, who had ruled Iran for over 400 years, was essentially completed in 651 CE. The last Sasanian king, Yazdgerd III (632–651 CE), was killed in Merv as the royal family fled into exile at the Chinese court.
The first Muslim ruling dynasty, the Umayyads (651–750 CE) belonged to the same tribe as the prophet Mohammad (Nos. 11, 12), and they established the capital of the Caliphate in Damascus. In 750 CE the Umayyads were ousted by the Abbasids, and the capital of the Islamic empire was moved to Baghdad in 762 CE (No. 13).
Early Islamic coinage was modeled on the existing monetary structures found in the conquered regions: in former Byzantine Syria and Palestine copper coinage was struck following the Byzantine model (No. 5). In the year 74 AH (693/694 CE) a remarkable new type of coin began to be struck with an image of the standing caliph on the obverse; he wears a belt and sword and is represented in the pose of a prayer leader (No. 6).
In the former Sasanian empire, Mesopotamia and Iran, the Sasanian silver drachm of Khusro II (r. 590-628 CE) served as the model for the coinage of the Arab governors. While the images matched the Sasanian prototype, an Arabic inscription, "In the Name of God", was added to the border and the name of the Sasanian king was replaced by that of the caliph or governor (Nos. 7–10). However, the Sasanian blessing in Middle Persian remained.
This kind of fragmented coinage inspired by ideas foreign to Islam was no lasting solution for the young Muslim empire. Thus in 77 AH (696/697 CE) caliph 'Abd al-Malik (685–705 CE) instituted a comprehensive reform that gave the new coins an unmistakably Islamic appearance (Nos. 11–13). Religious inscriptions with citations from the Koran replaced images and were complemented by administrative information such as the mint and year of issue (AH). Even the name of the ruler was left out, since the coins were struck "In the Name of God". Only under the Abbasids did including the name of the caliph and other state functionaries become standard
16. THE HINDU SHAHIS IN KABULISTAN AND GANDHARA AND THE ARAB CONQUEST
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Don't worry once more area till Amu would come under control of people of Madra Kingdom.Hindu Shahi kingdom from 850 AD to 900 AD (after that till 1001 AD they were limited to the eastern bank of the Indus) This was the independent Rajput Kingdom in Punjab
According to the Arab chronicler al-Biruni (973–1048 CE), the last Turk Shahi in the throne of Kabul was a certain Lagaturman, who was deposed by his Brahman minister Kallar in the middle of the 9th century CE. With the establishment of the Abbasid caliphate in 750 CE the situation had dramatically worsened for the still largely independent kingdoms in Zabul and Kabulistan. In 814/815 CE the Kabul Shah suffered a critical defeat against the troops of the Abbasid caliph al-Ma'mun (813–833 CE) (No. 13) and was forced to convert to Islam. Ma'mun's troops had even pushed into Gandhara on the Indus River. The annual tribute that the Kabul Shah subsequently had to pay the Abbasid governor of Khorasan entailed 1,500,000 dirhams and 2,000 slaves per year. The Turkic dynasty of kings, which had ruled Kabulistan and Gandhara for nearly 200 years, came to an end under these politically and economically tense circumstances. Under the new ruling dynasty, called the Hindu Shahis by al-Biruni, the political center of the kingdom successively moved from Kabul to Udabhandapura in Gandhara (present-day Hund, Pakistan), which offered more security from Arab attack.
And they did not have to wait for long: Yaqub bin Laith al-Saffar rose to be the most powerful man in East Iran around 861 CE; his first goal was Zabulistan, which he finally defeated in several campaigns in 870/871 CE. In the same year he continued on to Kabul, where the Kabul Shah was taken prisoner and the holy temple plundered. 50 standing statues of gods made of gold and silver are said to have fallen into his hands and were sent to the caliph in Baghdad. At his death Yaqub had transferred the government affairs to a vicegerent, but it seems that the Hindu Shahs managed to regain Kabul in 879 CE. The Samanid ruler Isma'il I (892–907 CE) ultimately drove out the Hindu Shahis around 900 CE (No. 3), but the dynasty remained in power in Gandhara and the Punjab until the beginning of the 11th century.
Hidefurther information
The coins of the Hindu Shahis display in the obverse a left-facing bull, the companion of the Hindu god Shiva; on the reverse is a rider carrying a lance with a flag (Nos. 1, 2). The inscriptions, composed in Brahmi, record various titles such as "Spalapati" (military commander) or "Samanta". The individual names of the specific rulers, as are known from written sources, are not given on the coins, making their attribution to the various kings nearly impossible. Kabul and Udabhandrapura in Gandhara are possible mints. The exceedingly rich silver coinage of the Hindu Shahis was most likely enabled largely from the silver mines of the Panjshir Valley (150 km north of Kabul). With the loss of Kabul to the Saffarids, Islamic coinage is documented there beginning in 872 to 883 CE. The first Samanid dirhams from the Panjshir valley are dated 293 AH (= 905 CE). The incorporation of Afghanistan in the Islamic world was thus completed fully and permanently. Nevertheless, the small kingdom in the Hindu Kush had successfully defended itself against Arab expansion for 250 years.
Following the death of the prophet Mohammad in 632 CE, the Arabs, carried by their new religion Islam, set out to conquer Byzantine Syria, Palestina, Egypt and North Africa, which they accomplished within a few years. The conquest of the Persian empire of the Sasanians, who had ruled Iran for over 400 years, was essentially completed in 651 CE. The last Sasanian king, Yazdgerd III (632–651 CE), was killed in Merv as the royal family fled into exile at the Chinese court.
The first Muslim ruling dynasty, the Umayyads (651–750 CE) belonged to the same tribe as the prophet Mohammad (Nos. 11, 12), and they established the capital of the Caliphate in Damascus. In 750 CE the Umayyads were ousted by the Abbasids, and the capital of the Islamic empire was moved to Baghdad in 762 CE (No. 13).
Early Islamic coinage was modeled on the existing monetary structures found in the conquered regions: in former Byzantine Syria and Palestine copper coinage was struck following the Byzantine model (No. 5). In the year 74 AH (693/694 CE) a remarkable new type of coin began to be struck with an image of the standing caliph on the obverse; he wears a belt and sword and is represented in the pose of a prayer leader (No. 6).
In the former Sasanian empire, Mesopotamia and Iran, the Sasanian silver drachm of Khusro II (r. 590-628 CE) served as the model for the coinage of the Arab governors. While the images matched the Sasanian prototype, an Arabic inscription, "In the Name of God", was added to the border and the name of the Sasanian king was replaced by that of the caliph or governor (Nos. 7–10). However, the Sasanian blessing in Middle Persian remained.
This kind of fragmented coinage inspired by ideas foreign to Islam was no lasting solution for the young Muslim empire. Thus in 77 AH (696/697 CE) caliph 'Abd al-Malik (685–705 CE) instituted a comprehensive reform that gave the new coins an unmistakably Islamic appearance (Nos. 11–13). Religious inscriptions with citations from the Koran replaced images and were complemented by administrative information such as the mint and year of issue (AH). Even the name of the ruler was left out, since the coins were struck "In the Name of God". Only under the Abbasids did including the name of the caliph and other state functionaries become standard
16. THE HINDU SHAHIS IN KABULISTAN AND GANDHARA AND THE ARAB CONQUEST
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Guptas ruled till Chenab and no more..A 2014 book on the Military history of the subcontinent said as much..I am linking you to it...but leads to direct download...They did though ally with the Kushanshahs in Afghanistan and Pakistan against Sassanids and Hepthalites
And that University of vienna website i linked earlier (one with the map) has all non-Arab dynasties that ruled over Afghanistan from roughly 600 AD to 1000 AD. with maps, coins, detailed infos
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Just don't train your arrows on us when you do ascend
W.11
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guptas did indeed rule afghanistan, i was asking whether you knew anything about it, i didnt say whether they ruled or not.
regards
Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8
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Nope I donot..but if you have any info regarding that..I would be happy to read it...I read somewhere that Guptas were a bit like the Han Empire...that is they led expeditions beyond their administrative regions into nomadic badlands to carry out punitive action...there is one slide on the Historical Atlas of South Asia which shows Guptas teaming up with Kushan Shahs to go against the Sassanid-Hepthalities in a region well beyond the Indus
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Old habits die hard.Once rebellious tribes of West would be sorted out area till Irrawaddy must come under rule of Islamic Kingdom of Mahabharat.Just don't train your arrows on us when you do ascend
That would be new Golden Vedic era a true rise of Vedic civilisation from ashes
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the info is scarce and the eurocentric scholarship certainly doesnt help. I requested this info in historum as well to no avail.
regarding gupta rule, there is a sacred hunza rock inscription which i stumbled incidentally in this very forum. This is the only evidence aside the kalidasa, allahabad pillar and a kashmiri chronicle how the gupta ruler purged the sinful tribe statement which i have discovered regarding their rule up till now.
regards
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Area beyond Indus inherently is difficult with low vegetation,water and high altitude coupled with cold winters and hot summers.
When you cross Indus River one ends up at Kafir Kot temple complex behind it total new Geography starts same happens when you cross Jehlum a hundred Km up.
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Fun fact - All reputed historians accept the fact that All Rajputs Except Agnikula(Chauhans, Chalukyas, Parmaras and Pratiharas ) are basically originated from Local Dravidian tribes like Gond, Bhars etc.
"Thus, the Kshatriya or Rajput group of castes at present essentially an occupational group composed of all clans, following the Hindu ritual, who actually undertook the work of Government; consequently, people of most of the great Rajput clans now in existence in spite of their hoary pedigrees are descended either from foreign immigrants or from indigenous races such as the Gonds and Bhars." [Mahajan, p. 552]
"Thus, the Kshatriya or Rajput group of castes at present essentially an occupational group composed of all clans, following the Hindu ritual, who actually undertook the work of Government; consequently, people of most of the great Rajput clans now in existence in spite of their hoary pedigrees are descended either from foreign immigrants or from indigenous races such as the Gonds and Bhars." [Mahajan, p. 552]
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Fun fact - All reputed historians accept the fact that All Rajputs Except Agnikula(Chauhans, Chalukyas, Parmaras and Pratiharas ) are basically originated from Local Dravidian tribes like Gond, Bhars etc.
"Thus, the Kshatriya or Rajput group of castes at present essentially an occupational group composed of all clans, following the Hindu ritual, who actually undertook the work of Government; consequently, people of most of the great Rajput clans now in existence in spite of their hoary pedigrees are descended either from foreign immigrants or from indigenous races such as the Gonds and Bhars." [Mahajan, p. 552]
puranay Kshatriya log kidhar gayein?
Old habits die hard.Once rebellious tribes of West would be sorted out area till Irrawaddy must come under rule of Islamic Kingdom of Mahabharat.
That would be new Golden Vedic era a true rise of Vedic civilisation from ashes
Pehlein empire ko khara kar lijiye, phir stability aanay ke baad Islam kay baray mein sochna
btw I have seen some deserty type area on satellite pictures between Jhelum and Indus...What gives?
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