Hillary Clinton put in Hot Seat by Pakistani Media

[S-2]

Seems you have a problem with bare plain facts and refuse to acknowledge that thousands of our troops and billions of dollars spent in Afghanistan between 2002-2006 constitutes anything but abandonment.

It doesn't and you willfully lie by repeatedly denying the facts before you.

You don't argue the obvious that we might have done more. You don't argue the obvious that we might have done better. Both are valid premises.

You, instead, argue that we did nothing. That, in fact, is what abandonment means and it is completely wrong. Enough of your countrymen here have an incomplete understanding of the english language but you've not demonstrated such to leave open that possibility.

I'm done as I can't ignore you and I find tiresome your gross deceit. You are rather pathetic on this issue and beyond me as to why you pursue such an obvious illogical idiocy but that's not for me to determine.

The information is available to others in my post. So too the comments made by both. I can live with mine but I'd be supremely embarassed to have to stand by yours were I you.

Thankfully I'm most decidedly not.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It doesn't and you willfully lie by repeatedly denying the facts before you.

There are no lies here - you are resorting to arguing over semantics to try and weasel out of accepting the fact that the US abandoned Afghanistan to go wage war in Iraq.

One could argue that if you had 100 US soldiers with a budget of 10 million in Afghanistan that you had 'technically not abandoned Afghanistan' since you had a token presence and investment.

The fact is that a presence that did little to improve the security situation and lives of Afghans and consolidate the gains from the original routing of the Taliban, and allowed the situation to deteriorate to the extent we see now is essentially an 'abandonment' of Afghanistan.

No amount of rhetoric focused on semantics and ad hominems changes that fact.

 

[asq]

And all that big talk about 100.000 soldiers in Iraq were only a part what of Black water which consisted more than 100,000,

why did American soldiers needed more than 100,000 security such as black water. I can understand the need for transportation of goods and services for soldiers, but not in that numbers. In my opinion they were there to payoff/use some unscrupulous people.


And all that money that is talked about so strongly is borrowed money from china and from Saudis.

If those terrorists are based in Pakistan, than the intelligence should be provided for their capture, drone are used to kill low value targets, why these drones are not used to kill those who high value targets and who are supposed to be In Pakistan, claims are made about those terrorists leaders in Pakistan and drones are used to kill others. S2 u seem to be bent on insulting Pakistan and Pakistanis, Let me let u that u r in small number as there are American who believe in truth and talk as such. take a look.

Congressman Ron Paul Speaks Out AGAINST War With IRAN - April 2006

This one is from Zaid hamind,

i

بسم اللہ الرحمن الرحیم
In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Kind

Dear brothers and sisters,

السلام عليکم و رحمۃ اللہ و برکاتہ

Peace be upon you

‘The Americans, my interlocutor suspected, are trying to provoke an Iraqi civil war so that Sunni Muslim insurgents spend their energies killing their Shia co-religionists rather than soldiers of the Western occupation forces. "I swear to you that we have very good information," my source says, finger stabbing the air in front of him. "One young Iraqi man told us that he was trained by the Americans as a policeman in Baghdad and he spent 70 per cent of his time learning to drive and 30 per cent in weapons training. They said to him: 'Come back in a week.' When he went back, they gave him a mobile phone and told him to drive into a crowded area near a mosque and phone them. He waited in the car but couldn't get the right mobile signal. So he got out of the car to where he received a better signal. Then his car blew up."

Taliban denies Peshawar blast role:
liars and traitors, these TTP terrorists are direct instruments of Indian and CIA terror.

“The Taliban and al-Qaeda have distanced themselves from Wednesday's deadly market blast in Peshawar that claimed 105 lives, saying "their main targets are the security forces, and not innocent civilians".

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/10/2009102995252334582.html


Taliban Chief Blames Blackwater for Peshawar Blast:
Blackwaters and TTP -- two sides of the same coin.

“Pakistani Taliban chief Hakimullah Mehsud has claimed that the controversial American security firm Blackwater was behind the deadly bomb attack on a market in Peshawar that killed over 100 people.”

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?668599

Some Question for Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Qureshi

“The GHQ attack effectively derailed the parliamentary debate over Kerry-Lugar bill and gave a breathing space to the isolated pro-US government in Islamabad. It allowed Shah Mahmood Qureshi to do his Munich-style appeasement and sell out the Pakistani nation to Washington. Without the GHQ attack, the government could never have scuttled the expected Parliament resolution against the US aid conditions. The subsequent attacks on Pakistani military personnel were not the usual Taliban-style terrorism.”

http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=839


Hillary Clinton's Pakistan Arrogance

“After attacking Pakistan's military and intelligence capabilities, US officials now turn to the nationalist Pakistani media. US ambassador Anne W. Patterson already has set precedence by applying pressure on a Pakistani newspaper to silence a longtime critics of US policies. Now it's Madam Clinton's turn.”

http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=838


Pakistan Lashes Back at Clinton
We know where Al-Qaeda leaders are Ms Clinton -- they are in the Texas safe house of CIA !!

“Pakistani officials reacted angrily Thursday night to U.S. Secretary of State Hilary Clinton's remarks earlier in the day in which she said, she found it "hard to believe" that no one in Pakistan's government, including the country's "military security establishment," knew where al Qaeda leaders were hiding.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/29/world/worldwatch/entry5450080.shtml


Where Is The Mourning, Mr. Zardari?
“To Our Elite And Not Just The President: Was a reception for a foreign guest more important than sharing the grief of your people?”

http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=841


Interior Ministry Covering Up For US Mercenaries and Terrorists

“In 2005, Iraqi Police arrested and locked up TWO British operatives in Basra who were dressed in local Arab gear, shooting at innocent civilians in a busy market with automatic rifles and driving a vehicle laden with explosives, intended to go off in the middle of the busy market. British tanks tore into the prison and rescued both these men. In Pakistan, it seems all the Americans need to do is make a call to the Interior Ministry and have their terrorists released.”

http://pakistankakhudahafiz.wordpre...es-work-hand-in-hand-to-destabilize-pakistan/


Taliban take over Afghan province
Just when Pakistan army started hey military operation, US and NATO removed all posts along the border to allow their terrorist TTP assets to escape into Afghanistan!!

“ISLAMABAD - The United States has withdrawn its troops from its four key bases in Nuristan, on the border with Pakistan, leaving the northeastern province as a safe haven for the Taliban-led insurgency to orchestrate its regional battles.”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KJ29Df04.html


Indian Nuclear Assets Danger to the World

While the western media and the western governments keep shouting about vulnerability of Pakistans nuclear arsenal and keep expressing the fears that these are likely to fall in the hands of extremists like Taliban, they have kept their eyes wide shut regarding the state of affairs of the nuclear weapons and nuclear capable missiles of neighbouring India where the situation is highly alarming, reveal the findings of The Daily Mails investigations into the matter.

The FBI raid & shooting death of Imam Luqman


“It is with deep sadness and concern that we announce the shooting death of Imam Luqman A. Abdullah, of Masjid Al-Haqq (Detroit, MI). Imam Luqman was a representative of the Detroit Muslim community to the "National Ummah" and the general assembly (Shura) of the Muslim Alliance in North America (MANA). The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced that their agents shot and killed the Imam during a raid related to a criminal complaint alleging that members of the mosque were engaged in criminal, but "not terrorist activity." This tragic shooting raises deep concerns regarding the use of lethal force by law enforcement agents.”

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/mana291009.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/10/2009102823123349105.html

Can Mrs. Clinton Control CIA in Afghanistan?
She came, she charmed, she failed to convince.

“There is a reason why her first visit to Pakistan turned into a big firefighting mission. In less than two years, even Pakistan's elite turned suspicious of US intentions. Forget Hillary's empty accusations that Pakistan is protecting al-Qaeda, the truth is that Washington has played a double game with Pakistan. Afghanistan today is a hub for anti-Pakistan activities and a source for the supply of weapons to terrorists in Pakistan [and Iran, and China]. The charm offensive aside: Can Mrs. Clinton and President Obama control CIA activities in Afghanistan? Who is setting America's Afghan agenda?”

http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=842


Fall of the Republic - The Presidency of Barack H Obama
The fall of the US Empire has begun even for the Americans to see. But it brings mass death for all humanity

Must See News!!!! US Military Prepares to Close All Borders Under H1N1 National Emergency.

Martial law in US ??

Undercover: Hate on the Doorstep
This is western civilization!!!

“Bullied, attacked and racially-abused more than 50 times in eight weeks. That was the experience of two British Muslim reporters posing undercover as a couple in Bristol over the summer”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_8310000/8310825.stm

Obama breaks from Bush by saluting coffins of 18 Americans killed in Afghanistan:
Keep practicing Mr. Obama. More body bags are on their way!!

President Obama publicly rejected the cloak of secrecy surrounding the return of US military dead late last night when he met the coffins of 18 Americans killed in Afghanistan in a solemn, unannounced ceremony


As we mourn the tragedy in Peshawar , it may be well to recall that there had been serious allegations of the Pentagon equipping, training and operating death squads in Iraq .

This is an excerpt from an article by the respected columnist Robert Fisk in the Independent of 28th April 2006:





جزاک اللہ خیراً
Wassalam

BrassTacks Team
info@brasstacks.biz

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[ BrassTacks is an independent security consulting think tank, dedicated to creating awareness and educating the people about issues of national security. To learn more about us, please visit our website at www.brasstacks.pk. To contact Zaid Hamid directly, you can email him at info@brasstacks.biz. ]
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[S-2]

We'll see who looks like a weasel.

ABANDON seems clear and you've no case. None. The facts are clear enough to stand any reasoned person's assessment.

You've had your chance, as indicated, to press the point of "more", "better" or both. That may hold validity.

Abandonment?

I'll let the data from CRS speak for itself. It speaks volumes on this thread right now.

Your chosen path is willful deceit. That's your problem and I can happily live with it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I'll let the data from CRS speak for itself. It speaks volumes on this thread right now.

On the contrary, the situation in Afghanistan currently correlated with the US venture into Iraq at the cost of Afghanistan is what speaks 'volumes'.

 

[S-2]

Could be but I'm long past that now as you've long since exhausted my patience with your pedantic and childish demeanor. I pointed out THAT possibility about things which could have been done better with what was there or that more could have been allocated but you chose to insist that NOTHING had been allocated and what had was REMOVED.

Take the last word. This is mine.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Could be but I'm long past that now as you've long since exhausted my patience with your pedantic and childish demeanor. I pointed out THAT possibility about things which could have been done better with what was there or that more could have been allocated but you chose to insist that NOTHING had been allocated and what had was REMOVED.

Take the last word. This is mine.

I have not claimed 'nothing was allocated' nor have I claimed what was 'was removed', that is pure dissemblance on your part.

What I have pointed out is that your presence in Afghanistan did nothing to improve the situation or arrest its slide into the current state we see it in, since the US, for all intents and purposes, abandoned it to go shed blood and spread strife in Iraq.

You are rather childishly arguing over the semantics and definitions of 'abandoned', when you too realize that what I said is true. Afghanistan was not referred to as the 'forgotten war' by US politicians and analysts for no reason.

Again, if you wish to claim 'non abandonment' on the basis of the argument that even 'one soldier deployed on Afghan soil and one dollar invested in Afghanistan' means that 'technically Afghanistan was not abandoned' then continue to cling to that fallacy.

For all intents and purposes Afghanistan was abandoned in pursuit of war in Iraq.

 

[parihaka]

For all intents and purposes, you did leave Afghanistan, leaving behind a token force that basically did nothing, the evidence of which we see now in the raging insurgency.

Oh rubbish. Sufficient force was put in place to keep order for what, three, four years?
It was only when wholesale interference from across the border began occurring once more that the violence began increasing dramatically.

 

[parihaka]

Unless you can go back in history and put those 100,000 plus troops in Afghanistan along with the hundreds of billions spent in Iraq, your abandoning of Afghanistan is the truth.

Lordy.
Force and aid has constantly increased since the invasion.

The myth that somehow 'those 100,000' would have been put in Afghanistan if not deployed to Iraq is simply that, a myth.

"Gee, we've got 100,000 troops sitting round doing nothing, I know, lets put them in Afghanistan and pay the Pakistanis gazillions to truck in food for them for no reason"

The only way that Afghanistan missed out was in not giving enough political thought and care to the long term geopolitical aspirations of its neighbours, and treating the country as though it were a coherent whole.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Oh rubbish. Sufficient force was put in place to keep order for what, three, four years?
It was only when wholesale interference from across the border began occurring once more that the violence began increasing dramatically.

Nice of you to join in the obfuscation and blame deflection over NATO failure in Afghanistan after abandoning it to go spread war and strife in Iraq.

And it was not sufficient force or investment since it resulted in the situation we see currently.

I see that you have 'abandoned' the last line of argument on this thread as well after trying to disingenuously talk about 'strawmen' and having your points shot down.

 

[parihaka]

Nice of you to join in the obfuscation and blame deflection over NATO failure in Afghanistan after abandoning it to go spread war and strife in Iraq.

And it was not sufficient force or investment since it resulted in the situation we see currently.

I see that you have 'abandoned' the last line of argument on this thread as well after trying to disingenuously talk about 'strawmen' and having your points shot down.

This from the person who claims continued military presence and aid means 'abandonment'.
The narrative of the 'intelligensia', where everything is something else and all fault lies elsewhere.

You rightly got called by S-2. The more you open your mouth, the more foolish you appear,so please keep going.

 

[SeaGull]

Pretty much spot-off. The minimal goal is money, or extremely unfair of redistribution of wealth among Americans. The maximum goal and I am not sure you really cared much is world hegemony by taking down Iran. The agenda to preach clashes of civiliations to make you safer and get away with money, bring everyone into the BS brotherhood so that you will no longer singled out for attacks. Control money supply make you she-males feel safe, bind your goyums with exotic laws so that you will never be attacked again. Even armed in Rambo gear, you know you are pussies in front of them Arabs armed only with rocks. There is a reason why you can never keep a land to your own during the entire history of your civilizations, because you are physically incapable. You prescribed the book of God to your Goyums, to you, it's a book of Death, and you are always afraid. And you always want to avenge.

But regardless how much Goldman Sachs is worth, aren't you disappointed you just can't buy Chinese? You Jewed them Russians well, but thanks to Vodka, those Neanderthals finally recovered.

Hey Prof - Let me be the first to welcome you back to the forum. Its a HAPPY DAY -

 

[SeaGull]

Hey Prof - Let me be the first to welcome you back to the forum. Its a HAPPY DAY -

THE BAN ON OUR FRIEND SUN TZU NEEDS TO GO TOO -

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This from the person who claims continued military presence and aid means 'abandonment'.
The narrative of the 'intelligensia', where everything is something else and all fault lies elsewhere.

You rightly got called by S-2. The more you open your mouth, the more foolish you appear,so please keep going.

And nice of you to also join in the ad hominems when left with no logical counter - I think I have very clearly explained what I meant by the US's abandonment of Afghanistan in my exchange with S-2, without any actual refutation other than a childish display of pulling out a dozen definitions of abandonment.

Whether you choose to ignore the reality of that 'abandonment of Afghanistan' by hiding behind semantics does not change the facts any.

If you have any arguments besides your typical snide tripe then please respond to the points made, though I suspect nothing more shall issue forth from you other than the dissemblance and snide comments on display since your prior line of argument got ripped to shreds.

Cheers.

 

[Elmo]

And nice of you to also join in the ad hominems when left with no logical counter - I think I have very clearly explained what I meant by the US's abandonment of Afghanistan in my exchange with S-2, without any actual refutation other than a childish display of pulling out a dozen definitions of abandonment.

Whether you choose to ignore the reality of that 'abandonment of Afghanistan' by hiding behind semantics does not change the facts any.

If you have any arguments besides your typical snide tripe then please respond to those, though I suspect nothing more shall issue forth from you other than the dissemblance and snide comments on display since your prior line of argument ripped to shreds.

Cheers.

Sowie... but hey Agno congrats on your 10,000th post.

(P.S.: Elmo lingo it means Agno you need to get back to life asap!!! No post of yours is less than 200 words... poor keyboard!!! )