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Hillary Clinton put in Hot Seat by Pakistani Media

Instead, the war is sure to drag on – as it did in Vietnam five years after then president Richard Nixon promised an end to the conflict.

More civilians and soldiers are likely to die in the name of preserving what the politicians like to call Western credibility.

But, as in Vietnam, the stages of withdrawal have been put inexorably into motion. Already, NATO and the U.S. are talking of training Afghan troops to do the fighting (40 years ago, this was called Vietnamizing the war).

The 36-year-old former Marine Corps captain resigned on September 10 over what he termed a "cavalier, politically expedient and Pollyannaish misadventure." Since then, even active-duty military have supported his decision, he said on CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS," scheduled to air at 1 p.m. ET Sunday on CNN.

"I have received many many e-mails from active-duty military and some guys who just separated from the service," Hoh said. "Some guys are here in the States. I've gotten many e-mails from guys in Afghanistan. Some are people I know. But a lot are people I do not know. Men and women who are saying, 'Thanks for doing this. Keep it up. We don't know why we're here. We're not sure why we're taking these casualties. We don't know what it's accomplishing.'"
 
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I can understand why,,you would not want to talk about Pakistan Womens rights.
He does not want to 'derail' the thread. If you are so much interested on 'striptease' of the so called American culture and the place of women therein, open up a new thread. I am also living in US for past 4 or so years and have seen the real and frankly quiet ugly face of American society behind the fancy mask of 'civilization'.
 
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""This genocide thing has already been tried unsuccessfully in Vietnam and Cambodia and is already underway in Afghanistan first by the Northern Alliance and now by the NATO/ISAF plus Northern Alliance..."

Moved from the states yet or do you routinely practice such self-deceit with your own children?

Ah...didn't think so.

Fascinating that you'll suspend your dubious morals to line your pockets with our gold while choosing to grandstand for the homeboyz on this forum.

What a walking, talking self-parody you are...:rolleyes:
Instead of vomiting the verbose, take some history lesson will you. The only thing you are good at is chewing words, and that too only because you are an English speaker by birth.

And forget about this “to line your pockets with our gold” nonsense. I am not getting that ‘gold’ in aid, but in return of my services that I do to your country that you morons cant do by yourself. If the expatriates like me leave your country, you’ll be no where. Your entire country is built by the skilled as well as the un-skilled immigrants. Show some courage, and make us leave only if you can.
 
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He does not want to 'derail' the thread. If you are so much interested on 'striptease' of the so called American culture and the place of women therein, open up a new thread. I am also living in US for past 4 or so years and have seen the real and frankly quiet ugly face of American society behind the fancy mask of 'civilization'.

If you dont like it here, why stay? You are free to leave and go back to the place your heart really belongs. Oh wait, you came here because that place where your heart belongs didnt give you enough! Take out the best that this place has to offer and yet criticize the very rules and culture which define it!

And about women, don't be a perv, you know you might have enjoyed many of those "stripteases". Desis ogle at the fair skinned goris here and yet criticize their lack of "culture" or "tradition" whatever that crap means! Like desis have a rich tradition of honoring women, least of all, sorry to say, Pakistanis!

So its better to deny a woman her rights, bury women alive for expressing their thoughts? What kind of a sick fvck mind would condone that?

Ugly face of American society you say? Isnt this "fancy mask" of civilization exactly what you came here for, the opportunities that this society creates? Hypocrisy at its best! You are fee to leave it if you don't like it. A big misconception that Americans cannot do anything if expatriates leave. We came here because of what they achieved, not the other way around. There are many others who like this society and are more than willing to occupy the place that you will vacate. You wont be missed.

You wouldn't like it a bit if an American touts his culture or traditions in Pakistan, but on the contrary Americans try to learn your traditions and culture and try to assimilate you into this big mixing cauldron of a society. Learn to respect what you have, least it be the last thing you will ever know.
 
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"I am not getting that ‘gold’ in aid, but in return of my services..."

And you know what that makes you given your thoughts, correct?

"Show some courage, and make us leave only if you can."

You're the one that has to live with compromising your values and being prepared to FIGHT for the right to stay in Naziville and accept our largesse. Do you take your gold with a smile on your face?

I welcome migrants. Look forward to A.M. staying too. I sure would if I were him. Flat out, it's what makes our country great. Give us a generation and, who knows...

...we'll have your family nicely assimilated too.:agree: Are you familiar with that word? It's why we're the melting pot of the world.

Can't wait either. It will be a welcome change-of-pace from the crass mercenary likes of you.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
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If you dont like it here, why stay? You are free to leave and go back to the place your heart really belongs. Oh wait, you came here because that place where your heart belongs didnt give you enough! Take out the best that this place has to offer and yet criticize the very rules and culture which define it!

And about women, don't be a perv, you know you might have enjoyed many of those "stripteases". Desis ogle at the fair skinned goris here and yet criticize their lack of "culture" or "tradition" whatever that crap means! Like desis have a rich tradition of honoring women, least of all, sorry to say, Pakistanis!

So its better to deny a woman her rights, bury women alive for expressing their thoughts? What kind of a sick fvck mind would condone that?

Ugly face of American society you say? Isnt this "fancy mask" of civilization exactly what you came here for, the opportunities that this society creates? Hypocrisy at its best! You are fee to leave it if you don't like it. A big misconception that Americans cannot do anything if expatriates leave. We came here because of what they achieved, not the other way around. There are many others who like this society and are more than willing to occupy the place that you will vacate. You wont be missed.

You wouldn't like it a bit if an American touts his culture or traditions in Pakistan, but on the contrary Americans try to learn your traditions and culture and try to assimilate you into this big mixing cauldron of a society. Learn to respect what you have, least it be the last thing you will ever know.

I am greatful to be in the USA, and for as I am concerned any one that dont like it should leave and not let the door hit them in the *** on the way out.
 
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The question here is really is Pakistan going to be part of the future or they going down the path of religious radicalism which will even make Pakistan poorer, more ignorant and backward. Now Pakistan can choose the future or they can choose the past and the hell it will bring with it.

How disconnected do you have to be from Pakistan to even ask that question? This is precisely the sort of attitude that earned Hillary the flak she got. The arrogant superiority that Pakistanis won't put up with any more. The question of whether or not we're going to be a part of the world is not even up for consideration. America doesn't hold the ticket for that and we need not do American bidding for it.

Fighting TTP, Taliban and AQ is what we're doing and preferably in that order. The stupidity of the American position... Basically it states "So what that you're being bombed by the TTP, forget Rah-e-Nijat, go after the AQ.

Did she really expect that she'd be taken seriously in Pakistan for that?

The other thing Hillary was impressing upon us was, and this is even better, "All of Pakistan you're wrong, Zardari and gang is right". Hillary's (and probably America's) baseline assumptions about Pakistanis is wrong.

America's future in Pakistan is good till they can keep bribing some leader or the other into doing their bidding. Hence America needs to give this "aid" to Pakistan.
 
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LOL, in their dreams. She stared every single one of them down and put in a masterful performance. A mere woman too. I often wonder what would have happened if she'd become President...

She lost her cool and ranted an emotional outburst. Hardly appropriate for the Top Diplomat whose trip's whole purpose was to improve America's image in Pakistan. As I mentioned elsewhere, she has a history of such outbursts at the most inopportune moments. She has been outmaneuvered by Obama into a sucker spot, what with regional czars undermining her domain, and she can't live it down.

We will get al Qaeda, with or without Pakistan's help.

Doubtful, or you would have done it already after eight years. The US desperately needs Pakistan's help, whether their ego allows them to admit it or not. It is no secret that the US favors India far more than Pakistan, as part of the anti-China strategy, but it also cannot afford to alienate Pakistan too much.

I did not and would not vote for Hillary. But after this interview she has risen a notch in my view.

Hillary is quite popular with most Indians. She is, after all, referred to as D-Punjab, the Senator from Punjab.

What she said was:

1) The aid has been approved by congress, if you want it take it, we are not pushing it down your throats.

How very diplomatic of her.

2) The KL bill is for Pakistan, and as a result it is Pakistan centric, no mention of Kashmir, or India or Afghanistan.

Then she is either ignorant or being disingenuous. The KLB specifically mentions "neighboring countries" besides Afghanistan. Somehow I doubt the US lawmakers had Iran or China in mind when they put in those words in KLB.

Off the top of my head I'd say what remains of the Sovereign State of Pakistan will cease to exist.

Then you better start wearing a cap with the caption "THIS SPACE FOR RENT".

As you do you might as well stick the barrel of an AK right in your mouths and pull the trigger to my everlasting pleasure.

Did you forget to take your medication again?

Our billions are wasted on a country (NOT a nation) that makes Afghanistan's corruption the examples of rank amateurs.

Pakistan has elevated such to a high art-form and embedded it institutionally in your military and civil elite.

Well, at least Pakistani politicians did not start a pointless war to funnel hundreds of billions to their buddies in Haliburton. Kinda makes Zardari look like a philanthropist.

Pakistan screwed the pooch by their single-minded interest in promoting a pan-pashtu movement intended to DOMINATE Afghanistan IAW their strategic intent to always deflect pashtu nationalist aspirations away from the sacred Punjab and instead onto Afghanistan at the expense of the Hazara, tajiks, and Uzbeks.

That sentence epitomizes the ignorance of regional history that has dogged the US thinking for all these years. Pakistan engaged with the Pashtun Taliban purely to oppose the Indian puppets of Northern Alliance. Afghanistan has been a proxy battleground for India/Pakistan forever. India screwed up and lost Afghanistan to Pakistan, which prompted the US invasion of 2001, ostensibly in retaliation for 9/11, but really intended to replace the pro-Pakistan Taliban with the pro-India Northern Alliance. All this, as part of propping up India as a regional power to counter China.

Like desis have a rich tradition of honoring women, least of all, sorry to say, Pakistanis!

Grandstanding by Indians on the issue of women's rights is a laugh. A nation with 25 million child brides, rampant infanticide of baby girls and a 5000 year old thriving tradition of burning widows alive (Sati) really shouldn't lecture anybody about women's rights.

25 million child-brides in India; 1/3rd of world's child-brides. - CNN iReport

Ugly face of American society you say? Isnt this "fancy mask" of civilization exactly what you came here for, the opportunities that this society creates? Hypocrisy at its best! You are fee to leave it if you don't like it. A big misconception that Americans cannot do anything if expatriates leave. We came here because of what they achieved, not the other way around. There are many others who like this society and are more than willing to occupy the place that you will vacate. You wont be missed.

Yet more blathering and pathetic grandstanding.
There are aspects of any culture that are ugly, and US culture is no exception. I recommend you read up the literature on the coarsening of American culture. Self-criticism is a right for everybody, including Pakistani-Americans and Indian-Americans, and is particularly encouraged in free societies. If you are unable to absorb self-criticism, perhaps you should leave the US and return to India to live an insulated life, nicely ensconced in the Indian media bubble.

...we'll have your family nicely assimilated too.:agree: Are you familiar with that word? It's why we're the melting pot of the world.

The US is a good place to live because it welcomes diversity of thought, including self-criticism. Many Americans, including conservatives and religious people (of all religions) would share qsaark's concerns about certain vulgar aspects of American culture. I am sure you are well aware of Bill Bennet and others who have written on this matter.

Assimilation does not mean abandoning your traditional values or way of life. As long as you don't bother anybody else, it really is nobody's business how you live your life. The Amish are an extreme example of peaceful non-assimilation.

I have absolute contempt for the "love it or leave it" grandstanding crowd. Free societies are great, not because of people like that, but despite them.
 
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If you dont like it here, why stay? You are free to leave and go back to the place your heart really belongs.

I am greatful to be in the USA, and for as I am concerned any one that dont like it should leave and not let the door hit them in the *** on the way out.
What nonsense! To live in a country means one has to agree with every thing? Those Americans (and I know lots of them by the way) who do not agree with the policies of the American Government should also leave? That 67 or so percent population in the UK which apposes the unfruitful presence of the British troops in the occupied Iraq, and Afghanistan should also leave the country and go to Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan?

And about women...
Again, do not try to de-rail this thread. I am reporting this to the Mods already. As far as rest of your vomiting is concerned, open up a new thread and I will tell you what I enjoy in America and what not.
 
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... which means you can't do it without Pakistan, at least not without resort to some of S-2's genocidal options.

I am late to the discussion. But AM, your sentiment was indeed shared across different campls - to various degrees. Having said this - words such as "genocide", even in a figurative sense, are best not to be bandied about "lightly". I am well-aware that S-2 tends to strike an overly "manichean" pose in these issues.

Ah...but there's a third scenario too, isn't there? That's the one where instead of fighting, for reasons only discernable in the minds of your military and civil elite, they "cut a deal" to share power.
"IMPOSSIBLE", you say?
...

Is "cutting a deal" here absolutely, irredeemably undesirable, S-2?
 
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Doubtful, or you would have done it already after eight years. The US desperately needs Pakistan's help, whether their ego allows them to admit it or not. It is no secret that the US favors India far more than Pakistan, as part of the anti-China strategy, but it also cannot afford to alienate Pakistan too much.
Splendid! Where were you when Pakistan was in bed with US against India?
US needing Pakistan? Please, dont flatter yourselves too much! Do you really have an idea of the ground realities?
Hillary is quite popular with most Indians.
So? Did you ever try to understand why? Or you really dont want to?
Then she is either ignorant or being disingenuous. The KLB specifically mentions "neighboring countries" besides Afghanistan. Somehow I doubt the US lawmakers had Iran or China in mind when they put in those words in KLB.
Whats wrong with that? Somebody is giving you aid money on their terms - terms based on facts and evidences. Accept it or leave it.
That sentence epitomizes the ignorance of regional history that has dogged the US thinking for all these years. Pakistan engaged with the Pashtun Taliban purely to oppose the Indian puppets of Northern Alliance. Afghanistan has been a proxy battleground for India/Pakistan forever. India screwed up and lost Afghanistan to Pakistan, which prompted the US invasion of 2001, ostensibly in retaliation for 9/11, but really intended to replace the pro-Pakistan Taliban with the pro-India Northern Alliance. All this, as part of propping up India as a regional power to counter China.
And yet you conveniently forget Pakistani involvement in Afghanistan supporting the Mujaheddin against the Soviets? Afghanistan wasn't a proxy battle ground forever, you made it one after you declared a sovereign nation as your "Strategic Depth". And now you complain about violations of your sovereignty?
Grandstanding by Indians on the issue of women's rights is a laugh. A nation with 25 million child brides, rampant infanticide of baby girls and a 5000 year old thriving tradition of burning widows alive (Sati) really shouldn't lecture anybody about women's rights.
Reread the line again. I said "Desis" a slang term which includes all the inhabitants or people originating from the Indian sub-continent - including countries like Pakistan, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri-Lanka, not to forget India!!
Yet more blathering and pathetic grandstanding.
There are aspects of any culture that are ugly, and US culture is no exception. I recommend you read up the literature on the coarsening of American culture. Self-criticism is a right for everybody, including Pakistani-Americans and Indian-Americans, and is particularly encouraged in free societies. If you are unable to absorb self-criticism, perhaps you should leave the US and return to India to live an insulated life, nicely ensconced in the Indian media bubble.
There is a difference between self-criticism and blatantly hating a foreign culture to which you decide to emigrate, to enjoy their, as you say, free societies! Theirs is a free society and they have their own rules and traditions. People decide to join them because people like their "free society" which was unavailable to those in their home countries! And yet, after enjoying the privileges of such a free society, some got the gall to criticize them as being corrupt and immoral? Now aint the Hypocrisy, mate?
If you want to practice what you had at home, stay put! Dont go around preaching morality to others when yours is barely threadbare!
The US is a good place to live because it welcomes diversity of thought, including self-criticism. Many Americans, including conservatives and religious people (of all religions) would share qsaark's concerns about certain vulgar aspects of American culture. I am sure you are well aware of Bill Bennet and others who have written on this matter.
Wrong. Qsaark's comments are not acceptable as valid criticisms of American culture. The person looks at this culture through Pakistani society's glasses and that aint right!
As for Americans criticizing their culture, basically conservatives critize assimilation of foreigners. What do you have to say about that? How does that agree with Qsaark's comment?
Assimilation does not mean abandoning your traditional values or way of life. As long as you don't bother anybody else, it really is nobody's business how you live your life. The Amish are an extreme example of peaceful non-assimilation.
You don't need to abandon your traditional values, but that does not give you the right to tout yours as being of superior morality than the local ones! If you don't want to assimilate, why come here in the first place? Amish are Americans, born and brought up here. They have strange lifestyle. Nothing to do with immigrants.
Irrelevant point.
I have absolute contempt for the "love it or leave it" grandstanding crowd. Free societies are great, not because of people like that, but despite them.
Wrong again. Free societies are great because they promote "free thinking". Big difference buddy. There is no place for people with closed mindsets and such people are frowned upon and usually not welcome!
 
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What nonsense! To live in a country means one has to agree with every thing? Those Americans (and I know lots of them by the way) who do not agree with the policies of the American Government should also leave? That 67 or so percent population in the UK which apposes the unfruitful presence of the British troops in the occupied Iraq, and Afghanistan should also leave the country and go to Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan?
Big difference between criticizing a Govt policy and baselessly touting ones own home country traditions as being morally superior to the local one!
Cardinal sin!
Again, do not try to de-rail this thread. I am reporting this to the Mods already. As far as rest of your vomiting is concerned, open up a new thread and I will tell you what I enjoy in America and what not.
With pleasure.
lol about vomiting comment. Btw, if you think your seniority status scares me into respecting you without questioning, then, sorry, you are wrong! In my opinion, seniority comes from not the quantity of posts but the quality and in that regard I am still a newbie!
 
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Big difference between criticizing a Govt policy and baselessly touting ones own home country traditions as being morally superior to the local one!
Cardinal sin!

With pleasure.
lol about vomiting comment. Btw, if you think your seniority status scares me into respecting you without questioning, then, sorry, you are wrong! In my opinion, seniority comes from not the quantity of posts but the quality and in that regard I am still a newbie!
Troll alert!
 
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Gubbi no the US doesn't need Pakistan. You are right they just use our roads, air space and bases for fun. They don't really need them to fight in Afghanistan.

If we had a semi-competent govt we could have charged tens of billions of dollars for these passing rights.
 
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