What's new

Hillary Clinton makes "unbelievable" F-35 pitch to India

You can't use a weapon effectively, unless you know how it works. Make no mistake, India seeks to absorb these technologies and come out with our own version. Except, we want that process to be legal. India needs ToT.

HUH - what logic is that, how the hell do you and have been using effectively over 99% of your aresenal now and in the past"? 99% of the Arsenal did not have TOT... Do you need TOT to know how to operate gadgets at home?

tell me - would this logic mean you/ India should hand over TOT on brahmos to nations you would be exporting the weapon to? and give up your secret sauce
 
If the United States don't want to provide ToT, India can easily find other nations willing provide the same. Its not a question of ethics or "giving up the secret sauce". Its about the scientific/technological growth of India. Nothing more, nothing less.

I hope i conveyed the message clearly. Btw, this is India's OFFICIAL policy.
 
If the United States don't want to provide ToT, India can easily find other nations willing provide the same. Its not a question of ethics or "giving up the secret sauce". Its about the scientific/technological growth of India. Nothing more, nothing less.

I hope i conveyed the message clearly. Btw, this is India's OFFICIAL policy.

there is no official policy on this w/ the gov, its official ranting of posters here at best. and how do you find it elsewhere if the technology only comes from a specific country? did you get TOT on all and every other weapons you bought from the other countries?
 
you really get frightened when you see your all weather friend offering Nuclear Deal, F 35 now, etc, etc... to your Enemy India. :rofl:

If you think American is our all weather friend u must be 2 years old it makes no difference to me if they sell you a monkey with wings or without it all i said was below cost is not going to happen.

Oh did u no your all weather friend is supplying engines for our jf17s that we built with our all weather friend china:yahoo::toast_sign:
 
If you think American is our all weather friend u must be 2 years old it makes no difference to me if they sell you a monkey with wings or without it all i said was below cost is not going to happen.

if what america sell in the name of aircraft can be called monkey with wings then your jf17 can be termed as an insect i guess.
 
if what america sell in the name of aircraft can be called monkey with wings then your jf17 can be termed as an insect i guess.

If you cannot understand whats being said i suggest stay out of the discussion.
 
If you cannot understand whats being said i suggest stay out of the discussion.

I suggest you to stay out of discussion mate since you are the one who forgot to read the article title. It is about F35 sales to india and you are bragging about some engine sales to paf.
 
Chinese sources have all along been saying USA was out to sabotage the ongoing MMRCA program and push in their F-35.That should tell India how free they are of the thorny US embrace?

Mother of all weapon deals is set to get costlier

For years, India's proposed purchase of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) -- the world's largest overseas fighter buy for which the Typhoon, built by Eurofighter GmbH; and the Rafale, developed by French vendor Dassault, remain in contention --- has been valued at Rs 42,000 crore, almost US $10 billion.

Now that valuation is set to rise dramatically, as the Ministry of Defence carries out a process called benchmarking.
Benchmarking is the crucial process of estimating the fair price for any purchase, and is completed before the MoD opens the price bids for any tender.

This is done by an MoD committee which scrutinises similar tenders worldwide, especially recent sales, to arrive at a comparable --- or as the name suggests, a benchmark --- price.

If all the vendors' bids emerge significantly higher than the benchmark, the tender is cancelled and the process begun afresh.




For example, if the MoD committee that is currently benchmarking the MMRCA concludes that Rs 42,000 crore is a decade-old estimation that should be increased due to inflation by 50 per cent, the benchmark for that contract will be pegged at Rs 63,000 crore.

When the Eurofighter's and Dassault's bids are opened, if both turn out to be notably higher, the MoD will scrap the MMRCA tender.

On the other hand, if the lower bid is less than or approximates the benchmark, that bid will be accepted.
The benchmark figure has become crucial for the Typhoon and Rafale, which are acknowledged as the most expensive of the six fighters that competed for the IAF's order.



Watching from the sidelines and hoping that the procurement falls through are the four aircraft vendors who were eliminated from the MMRCA contest in April: Russia's MiG; Sweden's Saab; and American companies, Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

Two of those vendors have told Business Standard that they believe that Eurofighter's and Dassault's quotes will be far higher than the benchmark.

If they are correct, the long process of obtaining sanctions, tendering, evaluations and field trials will have been fruitless.
One eliminated contestant sources the Rafale's price from the Brazilian media, which has keenly followed the contest between Dassault, Saab and Boeing to sell 36 fighters to the Brazilian Air Force.



A detailed story in the Sao Paulo-based daily, Folha de S Paulo, pegs the Rafale bid at US $6.2 billion (plus another US $4 billion for maintenance over the next 30 years, according to the terms of the Brazilian tender).

Quoting French sources, the daily reports that the $6.2 billion bid is a discounted price, brought down from $8.2 billion after intense Brazilian pressure on Paris. Extrapolating these figures onto the Indian contract, Dassault's quote for 126 MMRCAs could be as much as $20 billion, twice the initially estimated figure.
Aerospace industry estimations put the cost of the Eurofighter Typhoon about 25 per cent higher than the Rafale. That would put the cost of 126 Typhoons at about $25 billion.
The Indian price bids, however, involve a different calculation. The South Block tender demands price quotes on a "life-cycle" basis, a complex and detailed format that factors in the cost of 126 fighters over their estimated service life of 40 years.



Source: Mother of all weapon deals is set to get costlier - Lazydesis
 
Chinese sources have all along been saying USA was out to sabotage the ongoing MMRCA program and push in their F-35.That should tell India how free they are of the thorny US embrace?

Mother of all weapon deals is set to get costlier

For years, India's proposed purchase of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) -- the world's largest overseas fighter buy for which the Typhoon, built by Eurofighter GmbH; and the Rafale, developed by French vendor Dassault, remain in contention --- has been valued at Rs 42,000 crore, almost US $10 billion.

Now that valuation is set to rise dramatically, as the Ministry of Defence carries out a process called benchmarking.
Benchmarking is the crucial process of estimating the fair price for any purchase, and is completed before the MoD opens the price bids for any tender.

This is done by an MoD committee which scrutinises similar tenders worldwide, especially recent sales, to arrive at a comparable --- or as the name suggests, a benchmark --- price.

If all the vendors' bids emerge significantly higher than the benchmark, the tender is cancelled and the process begun afresh.




For example, if the MoD committee that is currently benchmarking the MMRCA concludes that Rs 42,000 crore is a decade-old estimation that should be increased due to inflation by 50 per cent, the benchmark for that contract will be pegged at Rs 63,000 crore.

When the Eurofighter's and Dassault's bids are opened, if both turn out to be notably higher, the MoD will scrap the MMRCA tender.

On the other hand, if the lower bid is less than or approximates the benchmark, that bid will be accepted.
The benchmark figure has become crucial for the Typhoon and Rafale, which are acknowledged as the most expensive of the six fighters that competed for the IAF's order.



Watching from the sidelines and hoping that the procurement falls through are the four aircraft vendors who were eliminated from the MMRCA contest in April: Russia's MiG; Sweden's Saab; and American companies, Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

Two of those vendors have told Business Standard that they believe that Eurofighter's and Dassault's quotes will be far higher than the benchmark.

If they are correct, the long process of obtaining sanctions, tendering, evaluations and field trials will have been fruitless.
One eliminated contestant sources the Rafale's price from the Brazilian media, which has keenly followed the contest between Dassault, Saab and Boeing to sell 36 fighters to the Brazilian Air Force.



A detailed story in the Sao Paulo-based daily, Folha de S Paulo, pegs the Rafale bid at US $6.2 billion (plus another US $4 billion for maintenance over the next 30 years, according to the terms of the Brazilian tender).

Quoting French sources, the daily reports that the $6.2 billion bid is a discounted price, brought down from $8.2 billion after intense Brazilian pressure on Paris. Extrapolating these figures onto the Indian contract, Dassault's quote for 126 MMRCAs could be as much as $20 billion, twice the initially estimated figure.
Aerospace industry estimations put the cost of the Eurofighter Typhoon about 25 per cent higher than the Rafale. That would put the cost of 126 Typhoons at about $25 billion.
The Indian price bids, however, involve a different calculation. The South Block tender demands price quotes on a "life-cycle" basis, a complex and detailed format that factors in the cost of 126 fighters over their estimated service life of 40 years.



Source: Mother of all weapon deals is set to get costlier - Lazydesis


How are we going to get the F-35? The local costs of F-35 right now is $ 132 million apiece. How can we get it for $65 million? The costs are still climbing.

This was a nice little offer from USA, but we're passing it. No one can force us to buy them. Simple as that.

The pressure is on either of the contenders mate. Not us. The one who does give a good price, gets the contract. And Rafale is desperate for a foreign deal. MRCA would be a saviour for their Rafale project. Typhoon already has clients to take the risk of being hard bargainers..Rafale can't.
 
The IAF seems to be in a right pickle- buying incredibly expensive 4.5 gen fighters (although very capable, are never going to be 5th gen) or holding off until own 5th gen are ready (FGFA/AMCA) but the timeline for this is not certain and would leave at least a decade long gap of inductions. Or buying the F-35 with strings attached, is incredibly expensive and would lead to the IAF operating the most complex fleet in the world (4 different 5th gen fighters) and again a delay would almost certainly happen. I also don't see the MoD/GoI going for it given their desire to remain sovereign and sanction free.


Given these scenarios it seems buying the very expensive 4.5 gen fighters is the most likely because of time constraints and desire to keep logistics and maintenance as simple as possible.


And anyway most countries (except the very richest) will be operating 4th gen fighters for the forseeable future.
 
How are we going to get the F-35? The local costs of F-35 right now is $ 132 million apiece. How can we get it for $65 million? The costs are still climbing.

This was a nice little offer from USA, but we're passing it. No one can force us to buy them. Simple as that.

The pressure is on either of the contenders mate. Not us. The one who does give a good price, gets the contract. And Rafale is desperate for a foreign deal. MRCA would be a saviour for their Rafale project. Typhoon already has clients to take the risk of being hard bargainers..Rafale can't.
Such deals are not just for this one item. Nuclear program, "terrorism" issue, UNSC membership, appointment of Asia's Viceroy, etc.etc are all connected. Obama - Hillary are appointments of elements who control things in Washington DC; they have own constrains. Like many before her, including Pakistan, India is discovering the dangers of establishing friendship with an unscrupulous and vicious power-hungry power.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom