Highest Average IQ by Country (2016 update) | List 25

[EndangeredSpecies]

My claim is correct. You said all Russian engines.

I said "All kinds of jet engines".

You claim is not correct.
"My Made in Japan Toshiba laptop failed by blowing up its processor" ===> "Japan cannot produce Laptops reliably" . This is exactly what is called as a sweeping generalization.

 

[DejanSRB]

@Martian2

According to Charles Murray : "Human Accomplishments, The pursuit of excellence in arts and science from 1400 to 1999"

Russia contributed to 14% of all science inovations in the world from 1400 to 1999, and more then 15 % of all arts.

Chinese contribution in last 600 years is less then 1%. Russia was co founders of our modern age, China was outsider.

@gambit
Can you please answer me, but no offense.
USA is most popular destination for great minds and scientists and yet it has only 98 IQ.
Russia is one of countries with biggest brain drain, but with 97 IQ, what is the problem? Hillibilies/rednecks? or bad education system?

 

[Martian2]

@Martian2

According to Charles Murray : "Human Accomplishments, The pursuit of excellence in arts and science from 1400 to 1999"

Russia contributed to 14% of all science inovations in the world from 1400 to 1999, and more then 15 % of all arts.

Chinese contribution in last 600 years is less then 1%. Russia was co founders of our modern age, China was outsider.

@gambit
Can you please answer me, but no offense.
USA is most popular destination for great minds and scientists and yet it has only 98 IQ.
Russia is one of countries with biggest brain drain, but with 97 IQ, what is the problem? Hillibilies/rednecks.

I keep telling forum members.

Stop citing ancient history.

You cannot use ancient history to argue that Turkey is a modern industrialized nation.

Similarly, you cannot use ancient history to argue that Russia is a modern industrial power.

Can Russia manufacture any computer chips? Since it can't, how can it be considered a modern industrialized state?

Can Russia clone any complex animal? No.

Can Russia build advanced CNC machine tools with micron-level tolerance? No.

Can Russia build a billion-dollar offshore oil platform? No.

Can Russia build a modern communications satellite? No, it buys European.

At some point, you have to reach the conclusion that Russia can only build the OLD industrial technologies. Russia is not a MODERN industrial nation.

Most of Russia's exports are oil, gas, and metals. That looks like every other non-industrialized country.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

USA is most popular destination for great minds and scientists and yet it has only 98 IQ.

Well, High IQ and having extremely high functioning mind is more of a disruptor than generalist. Meaning you don't need too many of that kind to becomes a technology powerhouse or scientific leader. You need enough of them with a big capital base to fund their research and disruption. It is a field where outliers define the progress. The average or median is not a good metric.

 

[Martian2]

You are not supposed to talk about race, but I will make an exception here because it is relevant.

The US has a population of 300 million. Subtract 50 million African-Americans. Subtract 50 million Hispanics.

The 200 million remaining has an IQ equivalent to Han Chinese. Hence, the US is a great industrial power.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Brazil's Embraer only builds the fuselage.

All of the important technological components (engines, avionics, etc.) for Embraer's aircraft come from American suppliers.

Not quite!
Embraer also designs and develops critical technologies like Fly-By-Wire (Legacy 500 FBW), HUDs (Enhanced Vision System), while its subsidiares like Bradar designs, develops and manufactures Radar and SAR. (http://www.bradar.com.br/)

BTW, Taiwan does not manufactures fuselages. Nor does it manufactures Radars. So I can arbitrarily define Taiwan as 'Not industrialized', right?

Lastly, Aren't you moving the goal post here? You original point was that since Brazil exports sugar, iron etc it is not industrialized. How come fuselage suddenly join that list? Also how come fuselage becomes "un-important" component?

 

[Martian2]

Not quite!
Embraer also designs and develops critical technologies like Fly-By-Wire (Legacy 500), HUDs (Enhanced Vision System), while its subsidiares like Bradar designs, develops and manufactures Radar and SAR. (http://www.bradar.com.br/)

BTW, Taiwan does not manufactures fuselages. Nor does it manufactures Radars. So I can arbitrarily define Taiwan as 'Not industrialized', right?

Lastly, Aren't you moving the goal post here? You original point was that since Brazil exports sugar, iron etc it is not industrialized. How come fuselage suddenly join that list? Also how come fuselage becomes "un-important" component?

Taiwan has 23 million people. It is silly to expect Taiwan to match the US across all technological categories.

However, where Taiwan has chosen to compete, it has excelled.

TSMC's 7nm has higher chip density than Intel's 10nm.

TSMC's market capitalization is higher than Intel's.

Qualcomm is the world's leading SoC (system on a chip) designer. Taiwan's Mediatek is in second place. Not Japan or Germany, but Taiwan.

Taiwan developed the patents and owns 90% of worldwide notebook computer sales.

Taiwan builds its own micron-precision CNC machine tools and the controller software. Taiwan exports $3 billion of machine tools per year.

Though Taiwan is a very small country (geographically and population-wise), it has built its own indigenous AESA radar.

Most people would agree that Taiwan is an industrialized state. Taiwan earned a trade surplus of $58 billion last year from selling technology products.

If you want to believe that Taiwan is not industrialized then that's your choice. I don't really care.
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Embraer is composed of foreign technology. Very little is Brazilian.

Risk Sharing Partnerships with Suppliers: The Case of Embraer | ResearchGate (April 2008)

Figure 1. Risk Sharing Partnerships of the ERJ – 170/190 Program Source: Embraer Company

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Taiwan has 23 million people. It is silly to expect Taiwan to match the US across all technological categories.

However, where Taiwan has chosen to compete, it has excelled.

TSMC's 7nm has higher chip density than Intel's 10nm.

TSMC's market capitalization is higher than Intel's.

Qualcomm is the world's leading SoC (system on a chip) designer. Taiwan's Mediatek is in second place. Not Japan or Germany, but Taiwan.

Taiwan developed the patents and owns 90% of worldwide notebook computer sales.

Taiwan builds its own micron-precision CNC machine tools and the controller software. Taiwan exports $4 billion of machine tools per year.

Though Taiwan is a very small country (geographically and population-wise), it has built its own indigenous AESA radar.

Most people would agree that Taiwan is an industrialized state. Taiwan earned a trade surplus of $56 billion last year from selling technology products.

If you want to believe that Taiwan is not industrialized then that's your choice. I don't really care.

Where does 'US' comes into discussion, I thought we were talking about Brazil and Taiwan!

Point is, How come semiconductor and CNC is hallmark of 'industrialization' while aerospace is not. Since you are claiming that exactly.

I will let you a secret, though! Your criteria are arbitrary which is why you have to move your goal post time and again.

 

[Martian2]

Where does 'US' comes into discussion, I thought we were talking about Brazil and Taiwan!

Point is, How come semiconductor and CNC is hallmark of 'industrialization' while aerospace is not. Since you are claiming that exactly.

I will let you a secret, though! Your criteria are arbitrary which is why you have to move your goal post time and again.

There is no absolute definition for industrialization. There is no magic "standard."

If I say that China can build 350 km/hr trains and the US can't then that means the US is not industrialized, it is obvious that a single test does not exist.

However, I have tried to paint a complete picture.

Brazil's major exports are oil, iron ore, soybeans, orange juice, etc.

Brazil's major exports are all commodities and not technology. Hence, Brazil is not an industrialized nation. It's pretty simple.
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Taiwan exports notebook computers, desktop computers, CNC machine tools, computer servers, specialty petrochemicals, solar panels, smartphones, computer tablets, GPS navigation devices, etc.

Taiwan's exports are all based on patented technology. Hence, Taiwan is an industrialized country.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Taiwan has 23 million people. It is silly to expect Taiwan to match the US across all technological categories.

However, where Taiwan has chosen to compete, it has excelled.

TSMC's 7nm has higher chip density than Intel's 10nm.

TSMC's market capitalization is higher than Intel's.

Qualcomm is the world's leading SoC (system on a chip) designer. Taiwan's Mediatek is in second place. Not Japan or Germany, but Taiwan.

Taiwan developed the patents and owns 90% of worldwide notebook computer sales.

Taiwan builds its own micron-precision CNC machine tools and the controller software. Taiwan exports $3 billion of machine tools per year.

Though Taiwan is a very small country (geographically and population-wise), it has built its own indigenous AESA radar.

Most people would agree that Taiwan is an industrialized state. Taiwan earned a trade surplus of $58 billion last year from selling technology products.

If you want to believe that Taiwan is not industrialized then that's your choice. I don't really care.
----------

Embraer is composed of foreign technology. Very little is Brazilian.

Risk Sharing Partnerships with Suppliers: The Case of Embraer | ResearchGate (April 2008)

Figure 1. Risk Sharing Partnerships of the ERJ – 170/190 Program Source: Embraer Company

Interesting post on decomposing parts by suppliers. I can say the same about Semiconductor though!

There are two major aspects of semiconductor chip production. Design and fabrication.

Almost all of the semiconductor design technology is American.

Design Entry? HDLs: Verilog, VHDL, SystemC: American.
Logic Synthesis? Synopsys design compiler. American.
System Partitioning? Cadence Design Systems. American
Floor Planning, Placement and routing? Mentor Graphics, Tanner EDA tools. American

Testing Flow? Circuit extraction, postlayout simulation, pre layout simulation? Cadence and Mentor Graphics! Again American!

So what does Taiwan has indigenous in their Semiconductor industry when entire design part is completely American? 'Only' Fabrication?

 

[Martian2]

Interesting post on decomposing parts by suppliers. I can say the same about Semiconductor though!

There are two major aspects of semiconductor chip production. Design and fabrication.

Almost all of the semiconductor design technology is American.

View attachment 455035

Design Entry? HDLs: Verilog, VHDL, SystemC: American.
Logic Synthesis? Synopsys design compiler. American.
System Partitioning? Cadence Design Systems. American
Floor Planning, Placement and routing? Mentor Graphics, Tanner EDA tools. American

Testing Flow? Circuit extraction, postlayout simulation, pre layout simulation? Cadence and Mentor Graphics! Again American!

So what does Taiwan has indigenous in their Semiconductor industry when entire design part is completely American? 'Only' Fabrication?

The process technology of 7nm is Taiwanese.

Regarding the tools, those companies predated the creation of TSMC in 1987.

There is no way for Taiwan to displace pre-existing companies that are already entrenched. It is impossible to take over the entire supply chain.
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The issue is value-added.

How much value does TSMC add in the production of leading-edge semiconductor logic chips?

TSMC's net profit is $10 billion per year.

The tool suppliers to TSMC earn a fraction of TSMC's profit.

In contrast, the foreign suppliers to Brazil Embraer earn the majority share of the profits.

GE earns huge profits from its technologically-advanced engines.

Embraer earned a net profit of $334 million in 2014.

Taiwan's TSMC earns a net profit about 30 times as much as Embraer.

TSMC adds value to its products for sale. Embraer does not.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

The process technology is Taiwanese.

Process means fabrication process. What about design? How can you claim that Taiwan has indigenous semiconductor technology while entire design flow is owned by Americans!

Since you claimed Embaer does not have indigenous aircraft technology as all the critical pieces -- and fuselage, control laws, radars are not critical as per you-- are held by foreigners. How about I say that Taiwan does not have any indegenous semiconductor industry since entire design flow is owned by american companies! Taiwan is merely fabricators : you know just Embaer is merely 'fuselage maker'.

Regarding the tools, those companies predated the creation of TSMC.

Nope! SystemC is dates only to 2004-05. And SystemC is critical piece in simulating, designing and co-developing SoCs. High level synthesis is very recent, 2005-06, without which no SoC can be sythesized into netlist. Co-design, Co-verification technologies are equally recent. Entire SoC design flow came only in 2000s. SoC as concept didn't even exist in 80s or 90s.

 

[Martian2]

Process means fabrication process. What about design? How can you claim that Taiwan has indigenous semiconductor technology while entire design flow is owned by Americans!

Since you claimed Embaer does not have indigenous aircraft technology as all the critical pieces -- and fuselage, control laws, radars are not critical as per you-- are held by foreigners. How about I say that Taiwan does not have any indegenous semiconductor industry since entire design flow is owned by american companies! Taiwan is merely fabricators : you know just Embaer is merely 'fuselage maker'.

You can believe whatever you want.

Embraer is insignificant. It earned a net profit of $0.3 billion in 2014.

Taiwan's TSMC earns a net profit of $10 billion per year.

TSMC is an important technology company. Embraer is not.
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You can try to argue that Brazil is an industrialized nation, but no one will agree with you.

Top 5 Exports: Brazil | Minyanville (September 18, 2012)
"Sep 18, 2012 - Iron ore, crude oil, soybeans, sugar, and poultry top the list of Brazil's biggest exports."

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

You can believe whatever you want.

Embraer is insignificant. It earned a net profit of $0.3 billion in 2014.

Taiwan's TSMC earns a net profit of $10 billion per year.

TSMC is an important technology company. Embraer is not.

Wow, so now profitability is the metric of being 'industrialized'. You sure keep on shifting goal posts!

TSMC is an important technology company. Embraer is not.

This is exactly what no one will agree to. Embraer is among very few manufacturers of Aircraft. Lots of privet jets are essentially their airplanes.

 

[Martian2]

Wow, so now profitability is the metric of being 'industrialized'. You sure keep on shifting goal posts!


This is exactly what no one will agree to. Embraer is among very few manufacturers of Aircraft. Lots of privet jets are essentially their airplanes.

Did you not see the infographic below? Embraer assembles other countries' technologies.

Taiwan's TSMC 7nm is superior to Intel's 10nm technology.

The two situations are not the same.

TSMC does not assemble other people's technologies. It adds value.

What happens when TSMC assembles the equipment for a semiconductor production line? Nothing happens. TSMC has to use its own process technology to fabricate a semiconductor chip through over 600 steps. Those steps of doping, masking, etching, etc. of the chips is a trade secret.

There is no trade secret to Embraer. It merely assembles the parts provided by other countries' companies.

It is silly to compare Embraer to TSMC.