Headley, Rana accuse ISI and Pak Govt for Mumbai Attacks

[manojb]

^^ first of all u shud update ur history. Dont bring 1971 bangla topic again. There are enough threads to discuss whom to put blame.

 

[relativiti]

i am surprised by the replies of my indian friends, implicating Pakistan in state terrorism while portraying india as a holy cow. Plz recall history n read what india did in east Pakistan (Bangladesh). They took full advantage of the situation and cut us in to two. Even now they are interfering in balochistan and ny1 disagreeing is living in a fools heaven. They dnt let go of any opportunity to harm us in any way possible.

There media is spreading hate against pakistan day n night and so there is much animosity between the two nations. But i believe India is in a big dilemma and has to walk a very fine line. The more it tries to destabilize pakistan, the more it will expose herself to militancy and insecurity. there will be many more mumbai style actions and bomb attacks which will destabilize india as well. any surgical strike or military action will give rise to more militancy and Jihadi groups. This whole situation will risk in hurting indian economy n slow the over all progress. so the only beneficiary will be China.

So i think Indian planners need to see the bigger picture and engage with GOP as well as PAK army. they need to keep an eye on global ambitions rather then petty regional issues. i think unlike corrupt leaders, indian think tanks and policy making institutes are much more mature. the policy of disengagement or isolating pakistan has failed to serve any purpose b4. also the threat of military actions did not work out.

its important for indian global goals to gradually engage and end all the regional conflicts, if it plans to compete with china and other global powers, until it does so its security and economy will always remain vulnerable to regional conflicts.

As far as Pak is concerned, i think the ppl who are fast asleep must get up and force its representatives to be more proactive. Unfortunately we point our fingers towards every1 but ourselves. v need to reclaim our country and force the corrupt leaders out of politics. v need political reforms to bring true democracy through clean and transparent elections. until that happen we will keep on straying in darkness blaming others for our ill-fate.

I also hope pakistan gets a strong leader who is wise and enlightened and not obsessed with anti-india activities . Only then he will be able to look into the internal situation and improve the living conditions of his people.
As far as the cutting into two and baloch is concerned the only 2 condition india says is "forget kashmir!" and "turn off the terror machines" other wise india will continue to destabilize pakistan and cut pakistan into many more halves!! We can afford all these activities for many years but you cannot!
thank you

 

[SMC]

Ok. So now you concede that "there may be few individuals" working here and there. Now thats an improvement and we can work from here.

And you think that is NOT co-operation (knowledge transfer) between the good and bad taliban, two mutually exclusive organisations ?

The groups are not working with each other, plain and simple. At least nothing major. Btw I never claimed that a few individuals might work together, but the groups as a whole are completely different. Remember that the argument is that Pakistan somehow was involved in creating the TTP.

DC gave two hoots to it and IIRC it was Zardari who went to UK to 'clarify' Pakistan's position

Terrorism row: David Cameron refuses to back down on Pakistan terrorism remarks - Telegraph

I won’t apologise: Cameron | Pakistan News

FYI, David Cameron said that Iran had nukes soon after.

Btw, Cameron just came to Pakistan a week or so ago. You forget what he was on about?

BBC News - David Cameron pledges 'fresh start' with Pakistan

BBC News - Cameron tries to repair diplomatic rift with Pakistan

BBC News - UK and Pakistan friendship 'unbreakable' says Cameron

So apparently he wants to do all that with a terrorist state? You're deluding yourself if you think he actually seriously believes in that nonsense.

Zardari's visit was planned before the remarks.

And btw, Cameron was the one who was on the backfoot after his remarks, not Pakistan. It was called a controversy across the world, not someone stating facts. He was criticized in UK. Bharatis were thinking they scored the victory, but the only one taking those comments seriously were only bharatis. He made those remarks to get the bharatis wet between the legs, which is what happened, and then he left laughing at the stupidity that he saw. As I said, considering what he's saying in the visit and what he said AFTER HE CAME BACK TO THE UK FROM INDIA, you're deluding yourself if you think he actually seriously believes in that nonsense. Remember that he never accused Pakistan before or after he came to bharat. Considering that his country is involved in WoT, if he believed this seriously at least he'd say it otherwise.

 

[Bhim]

Mumbai terror attack
The attack on Mumbai by terrorists subjected the city to unprecedented violence for three days in 2008.
NEW DELHI: Intending to nail Pakistan's lie over the role of ISI in the Mumbai terror attack, India is mulling the option of becoming 'party' to the lawsuit filed in a US court last year by relatives of two Americans -- who died in the 26/11 carnage – against top officials of the Pakistani intelligence agency and Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorists.

A top government official said: "India may become party to the lawsuit and provide evidence to the New York court. The matter can be taken up at the government-to-government level as well in support of the lawsuit under existing Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) between India and US."

The lawsuit, filed in November last year by relatives of Rabbi Gavriel Noah Holtzberg and his wife Rivka who were killed by Lashkar terrorists at Chabad House in Mumbai in November 2008, has accused the ISI of aiding and abetting LeT in killing 166 people, including six American citizens.

It said: "The ISI has long nurtured and used international terrorist groups, including the LeT, to accomplish its goals and has provided material support to the LeT and other international terrorist groups." The lawsuit referred to the disclosure made by American-Pakistani Lashkar terrorist David Coleman Headley and blamed top ISI officials for providing "critical planning, material support, control and coordination of the attacks (2611)".

The New York court had subsequently issued summons to senior ISI officials including its chief, Major General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, and LeT leaders Hafiz Saeed and Zakiur Rahman Lakhvi. Though the lawsuit is now stuck in procedures after the Pakistan government decided to defend its spy agency and got 'waiver' for Pasha's visit to the US, India appears to be keen on following the matter in whatever way it can to expose the ISI.

Officials here do not rule out the possibility of some back-channel efforts to help the petitioners which may also become a starting point for people of other countries whose citizens were killed by the Lashkar terrorists.

Besides Indians, 28 foreign nationals including citizens of France, UK, Germany, USA, Singapore, Israel, Canada, Australia and Japan were gunned down by the terrorists during the three-day carnage in Mumbai.

An official said: "The latest disclosure made by Headley's accomplice Tahawwur Hussain Rana that he acted at the behest of the Pakistan government and ISI has strengthened India's position." Although Rana may not get relief from the US court for himself on this ground, his account, officials here believe, will certainly open a debate when the trial against him begins in the Chicago court on May 16.


26/11 case: Will India become party to lawsuit in US against ISI? - The Times of India

 

[shuntmaster]

26/11 case: Will India become party to lawsuit in US against ISI? - The Times of India
Besides Indians, 28 foreign nationals including citizens of France, UK, Germany, USA, Singapore, Israel, Canada, Australia and Japan were gunned down by the terrorists during the three-day carnage in Mumbai.

India Should produce the 26/11 dossier in the US court for the whole world to see...
The same should be done in the 28 other countries to show the true face of Pakistan in front of the world.

 

[holysinner]

well my friend i dnt agree with ur assessment at all. I hope indians understand this point that the more destabilized Pak gets, more india will become vulnerable to terror threats. ALso india cannot divide pak again since the potential nuclear fall out will send india to stone ages and destroy much of Pak as well.
Bottom line is india cannot afford a destabilized Pak, if it wants to compete with global powers specially China. Pak is already in a bad shape due to inept leadership both civilian and military with no clear goals but if India wants to catch up with the rest of the powers, it must adapt and follow a strategy to address the insecurities and vulnerabilities by dealing with regional conflicts.
In current scenario a destabilized Pak will always remain a hindrance to the indian glory.

 

[KS]

The groups are not working with each other, plain and simple. At least nothing major. Btw I never claimed that a few individuals might work together, but the groups as a whole are completely different. Remember that the argument is that Pakistan somehow was involved in creating the TTP.

Yeah everyone agrees that TTP and AT are two different entities in name but which share a broad co-operation in their operation,resources and training. They also share the same ethinic,tribal and religious views and have the same motives of expelling the Kafirs from the the Land of the Pure and for that they use the same methods. They seek shelter among the same people and recruit from the same place to a large extent. The ground fighters intermingle among the both depending on the requirement in Afghanistan or FATA. And yeah also the 'few individuals' (Suicide bomb making professors) are working with the full knowledge of the higher-ups are not rogues.

They are like the AT and AQ which are different entities but which share everything.

Only a fool would argue that AT and TTP don't co-operate extensively on the ground, watching each other's backs and in this case you are arguing so.

But then why argue what is AT or TTP ? I care a rats azz what they are. Let us stick to the topic which is ISI aided and abetted the LeT to go on a carnage in Mumbai.

FYI, David Cameron said that Iran had nukes soon after.

Lol even Ahmadinijad said so.

Btw, Cameron just came to Pakistan a week or so ago. You forget what he was on about?

BBC News - David Cameron pledges 'fresh start' with Pakistan

BBC News - Cameron tries to repair diplomatic rift with Pakistan

BBC News - UK and Pakistan friendship 'unbreakable' says Cameron

So apparently he wants to do all that with a terrorist state? You're deluding yourself if you think he actually seriously believes in that nonsense.

Lol ok. Trying to repair the rift after one year or so. Good respect for your sesitivities. And oh, I am sure he must have asked Pakistan to do more. No ?

Zardari's visit was planned before the remarks.

And btw, Cameron was the one who was on the backfoot after his remarks, not Pakistan. It was called a controversy across the world, not someone stating facts. He was criticized in UK. Bharatis were thinking they scored the victory, but the only one taking those comments seriously were only bharatis. He made those remarks to get the bharatis wet between the legs, which is what happened, and then he left laughing at the stupidity that he saw. As I said, considering what he's saying in the visit and what he said AFTER HE CAME BACK TO THE UK FROM INDIA, you're deluding yourself if you think he actually seriously believes in that nonsense. Remember that he never accused Pakistan before or after he came to bharat. Considering that his country is involved in WoT, if he believed this seriously at least he'd say it otherwise.

This was what he said AFTER HE CAME BACK FROM INDIA.

Terrorism row: David Cameron refuses to back down on Pakistan terrorism remarks - Telegraph

 

[Rafi]

He has backed down though, because he was feeling the heat in many constituencies from British Pakistanis who would have made his Conservative Party suffer.

 

[Time Assassin]

I like it how Indians compare their terrorist attack in Mumbai to 9/11 and 7/7.

I don't even know what date your terrorist vattack happen. And to put it PLAIN + SIMPLE no one in the West cares. To think they do your idiots, I'm being honest, when my white freinds said to me "HAHA Pakistan lost" i replied "At least we are talking afetr the Terrorist attack". They said "what terrorist attack?" and start calling you guys Slum people. Happy Now? thats what the youths see in the west see as India.

Honestly if India has such a problem with Pakistan then do something about it. You know war isn't the solution, has both sides will lose and you have more to LOSE. So i ask the people of India let Bygones be Bygones, Asia's rise is MORE IMPROTANT than Europe and America. Do the right thing and make peace.

 

[IndianTiger]

mmmmmmm so??? why you failed force CIA t hand over Headely to you?

but we atleast got nuclear deal, why ur deviating from topic, US president aknowledge that we are better nation, compare to jerk that he didnt visit,

 

[DV RULES]

While thread topic from Indian media, conspiracies at its best. There is no need to confuse that why this kind of information released in ISI & CIA dialogues background.

 

[Bhim]

I like it how Indians compare their terrorist attack in Mumbai to 9/11 and 7/7.

I don't even know what date your terrorist vattack happen. And to put it PLAIN + SIMPLE no one in the West cares. To think they do your idiots, I'm being honest, when my white freinds said to me "HAHA Pakistan lost" i replied "At least we are talking afetr the Terrorist attack". They said "what terrorist attack?" and start calling you guys Slum people. Happy Now? thats what the youths see in the west see as India.

Honestly if India has such a problem with Pakistan then do something about it. You know war isn't the solution, has both sides will lose and you have more to LOSE. So i ask the people of India let Bygones be Bygones, Asia's rise is MORE IMPROTANT than Europe and America. Do the right thing and make peace.

If you had an ignorant fool as a friend or shall we say an ignorant circle of friends, that does not change reality.
Bygones can't be bygones, as you will try the dirty tricks again and again. The world should know the truth and it should go down in History.

 

[Time Assassin]

If you had an ignorant fool as a friend or shall we say an ignorant circle of friends, that does not change reality.
Bygones can't be bygones, as you will try the dirty tricks again and again. The world should know the truth and it should go down in History.

The World doesn't care about your history what did i just say. If you want to be a suck up and pretend the West actually cares about the people of India then okay fine believe your own thing. I'm done with this topic.

 

[gaurish]

I like it how Indians compare their terrorist attack in Mumbai to 9/11 and 7/7.

I don't even know what date your terrorist vattack happen. And to put it PLAIN + SIMPLE no one in the West cares. To think they do your idiots, I'm being honest, when my white freinds said to me "HAHA Pakistan lost" i replied "At least we are talking afetr the Terrorist attack". They said "what terrorist attack?" and start calling you guys Slum people. Happy Now? thats what the youths see in the west see as India.

Honestly if India has such a problem with Pakistan then do something about it. You know war isn't the solution, has both sides will lose and you have more to LOSE. So i ask the people of India let Bygones be Bygones, Asia's rise is MORE IMPROTANT than Europe and America. Do the right thing and make peace.

Peace is more Important for Pakistan then India currently... we dont care what the west thinks but India knows for sure that now its pakistan who wants India for talks ............ See internal situation of both the countries...... West gaya bhaad mein

 

[Jackdaws]

well my friend i dnt agree with ur assessment at all. I hope indians understand this point that the more destabilized Pak gets, more india will become vulnerable to terror threats. ALso india cannot divide pak again since the potential nuclear fall out will send india to stone ages and destroy much of Pak as well.
Bottom line is india cannot afford a destabilized Pak, if it wants to compete with global powers specially China. Pak is already in a bad shape due to inept leadership both civilian and military with no clear goals but if India wants to catch up with the rest of the powers, it must adapt and follow a strategy to address the insecurities and vulnerabilities by dealing with regional conflicts.
In current scenario a destabilized Pak will always remain a hindrance to the indian glory.

As an Indian, I don't want an unstable Pakistan. You have your country - do whatever you want with it. As it stands now, Pakistan is imploding on its own - and somehow always comes back from the brink only to move toward implosion again. When in the last 63 years has Pakistan been stable?