Hate-Speech Hypocrites

[mfreak]

This, again, is the familiar refrain used to justify demonization. Why can't the blacks/Jews/Italians/latinos/... control their community and stop people from committing crimes, etc.?

They do. Like am sure if you studied abroad you will find student clubs that promote diversity. That teach people about their histories and their cultures. What has the tolerant muslim community done? Nothing. What has the extremist muslim community done? They have formed their own unions, gone on marches, murdered people who they disagree with etc etc., So the presence of extremism in the community, and your ineptitude/silence to prevent such extremism, creates distrust. People think you actually support them cuz you do nothing about it. The onus is on you.

but the right to be stupid and offensive. It is to examine the double standard where some sensibilities are protected by law, while others are not.

We are talking about reasons for that. The reason people dont say anything about it, is because deep down there is a negative stereotype about the religion and the entire community. The responsibility to improve that image lies with you, if you are so tolerant. If PDF was represented ONLY by people like FaujHistorian, then I'd have a totally different opinion about Islam and Pakistanis. Unfortunately people like Zarvan, who "wants to die for Islam" and calls himself a fundamentalist, and advocates genocide of Jews exist. And he even gets "thumbs ups". Thereby tarnishing the image of your community and losing credibility.

Its very simple. Its hard to feel sympathy when the one demanding sympathy SEEMS to be an asshole. To prove otherwise is your responsibility. Never heard of marketing? If at all your community members market themselves, they do so in the form of religious extremism. Or they do nothing at all.

 

[Developereo]

You just throw stuff into flames to fan it.

I am debating the specific issue of free speech laws and the double standards therein. Like I wrote, many respectable people debate it in the mainstream media.

If you don't have any relevant contribution, then feel free to sit this one out instead of throwing random tidbits just to make noise and see if something sticks.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Stereotyping? Generic anomalization?

Are we to ignore and attribute to coincidence the fact that there is not one non-muslim country in the world with a sizable or near sizable muslim population where the muslims are well integrated into the mainstream and not in conflict with the indigenous population?

Do you know what is the COMMON LINK between 23 of 25 global conflict hot spots in the world?

Not just today but over the past few decades?

Everyone has a beef with Muslims.

Everyone MUST be wrong!

Khodai khodai ......

P.S. Look ma, here comes the mulla with his fatwas again!

Hi Doc,

I agree to some degree.

However I didn't expect that of all people, you will be generalizing so much about issues related to Muslims around the world.

Granted in many of the cases, Muslims are equally if not more responsible for the conditions on the ground. But I won't lump all of them together.

Why?

Because lumping all of these issues as Muslim issues regardless of the specific geographical, social, and historical background is usually performed by Mullahs, Ayatuallahs and Pan-Islamists.

And sadly sometimes good people like yourself, well meaning people I dare say, fall into Mullah trap and end up using a negative but related opinion as you said

"Everyone has a beef with Muslims".

This is clearly wrong and it blindly ignores very similar issues faced by non-Muslims. I won't go into the details for fear of derailing this thread. However if you insist I can always bring about examples where 100s and 1000s of people got killed, murdered, and exiled with no Muslim link to such conflict or conflicts.


So I urge you not to follow Mulli and Ayatulli logic of "Islam khatray main hai" (Islam is in danger), or the reverse "Islam khatra hai" (Islam is dangerous). As both of these are stereotypes and thus spread ignorance with huge blobs of arrogance mixed in.


peace to you.

 

[Developereo]

So all the Palestinians should be held accountable for the views of some Mufti ?

The Mufti was cozying up to Hitler because the British had backstabbed him in favor of the Jews in Palestine. It was a case of my enemy's enemy is my friend or, in this case, both my enemies' enemy is my friend.

It still doesn't make it right but at least gives historical context to the event.

 

[Developereo]

They do. Like am sure if you studied abroad you will find student clubs that promote diversity. That teach people about their histories and their cultures. What has the tolerant muslim community done? Nothing. What has the extremist muslim community done? They have formed their own unions, gone on marches, murdered people who they disagree with etc etc., So the presence of extremism in the community, and your ineptitude/silence to prevent such extremism, creates distrust. People think you actually support them cuz you do nothing about it. The onus is on you.



We are talking about reasons for that. The reason people dont say anything about it, is because deep down there is a negative stereotype about the religion and the entire community. The responsibility to improve that image lies with you, if you are so tolerant. If PDF was represented ONLY by people like FaujHistorian, then I'd have a totally different opinion about Islam and Pakistanis. Unfortunately people like Zarvan, who "wants to die for Islam" and calls himself a fundamentalist, and advocates genocide of Jews exist. And he even gets "thumbs ups". Thereby tarnishing the image of your community and losing credibility.

Its very simple. Its hard to feel sympathy when the one demanding sympathy SEEMS to be an asshole. To prove otherwise is your responsibility. Never heard of marketing? If at all your community members market themselves, they do so in the form of religious extremism. Or they do nothing at all.

We are going into old territory; the issue of Muslims denouncing extremists has been discussed here several times. I have to go, but here's a funny take on the Muslim riots in Sydney earlier this month. It's fairly balanced.

 

[JayAtl]

I am debating the specific issue of free speech laws and the double standards therein. Like I wrote, many respectable people debate it in the mainstream media.

If you don't have any relevant contribution, then feel free to sit this one out instead of throwing random tidbits just to make noise and see if something sticks.

Sitting down and calling your need to obfuscate the issue when issues are a flame is not throwing random tit bits. Saying you are following the school of Mullaism by saying "look at this shiny object over there" in a conversation that is trying to put out the flames on topic. is not tit bits rather pointing out the bane of your argument and agenda.

We never see you come in go ape shzit about your minister putting out fatwa of death or your fellow countrymen pushing a pro jihadii stance ( actual directed violence)- but we will see you always giving us examples of politicians and radio jocks using mere words in a society of civilized people, civilized because the people take them to task vs the people following them as sheep.

You are most dangerous kind of Muslim. Educated apparently, but using that education to move the bar to " but but look at this other shiny object".

The flames you are fanning are only consuming your country vs. it scorching the rest of us ( US is safe , Europe is safe, Australia is safe even if it gets attacked once in a blue moon). But what have you done to your people and country on an almost daily basis?

 

[mfreak]

We are going into old territory; the issue of Muslims denouncing extremists has been discussed here several times. I have to go, but here's a funny take on the Muslim riots in Sydney earlier this month. It's fairly balanced.

Just denouncing wont work. Am talking about proactive steps. They just dont exist.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Muslims pick up on holocaust denial based on their intellectual roots in the Middle East and specifically in Egypt. Mufti-Azam palestine was sitting in the lap of Nazis long before Israel came into being. Why? Because the hateful ideology spouted by Nazis in fact matched closely with the Arab nationalism.

A lot of people admired the Nazis before WWII including many in the British royal family. Ever heard of the Duke of Windsor ?

So all the Palestinians should be held accountable for the views of some Mufti ?

yeap. A small minority in England bought into Hitler's hateful ideology and so did a small minority in the USA. However the majority opposed it and tried to give refuge to persecuted jews escaping from Germany. By 1940s Britain and its allies were clearly joined together against the Nazi stance. However Egyptians and Arab Moooolahs did not change / update their view point and infact wrongly added pre-War pro-Nazi views in their post war Arab nationalism.

As I said earlier, Pakistanis blindly ape Arabs and thus carry the same Nazi views (neo-Nazi) a la david duke, all in the name of Arab nationalism.


peace

 

[Developereo]

We never see you come in go ape shzit about your minister putting out fatwa of death

I am sure Atlanta has decent optometrists. I recommend you consult one and then go through the threads about the Railway minister to see my comments.

As for the rest of your post, you need to keep trying. Maybe something will stick...

Just denouncing wont work. Am talking about proactive steps. They just dont exist.

No, you don't know about them because they don't get much coverage in the media. Muslim communities in most Western countries, including Australia, work with the government and police in education programs to fight radicalism. Nothing is perfect and there will always be individuals who slip through the cracks.

 

[RayKalm]

I have a very good answer for that.

Insulting Prophet Mohammed, even though it maybe in a bad taste, does not hurt anybody physically. The only people that harm anyone physically when Mohammed is insulted, are Muslims. Also, it does not particularly point to a tragedy that happened in the past.

However, the Holocaust ACTUALLY happened. 6 million innocent people died. The Holocaust was not a religious event, it was mass murder. A lot of present day Israelis might have had some of their relatives killed in that event, so it is insensitive and barbaric to bully and mock the Holocaust.


Lastly, the Holocaust is a historic event. Jews do not go around burning buildings when someone denies the holocaust.

But Mohammed is a religious figure, and Muslims will go around burning buildings and attacking **** if someone talks trash about Mohammed.

A historic event and a religious figure are totally different. And the historic event has more credibility and deserves more respect.

Okay, let's rephrase Mohammad with exploring the truth about the secret governments around the world. Your comment is discredited.

 

[mfreak]

Okay, let's rephrase Mohammad with exploring the truth about the secret governments around the world. Your comment is discredited.

Errr...what?

If you do rephrase Mohammad as something as nonsensical as "exploring the truth about secret governments around the world" then the comment would indeed be discredited cuz it would be grammatically wrong. I didnt get anything else from your comment.

 

[Bhairava]

Okay, let's rephrase Mohammad with exploring the truth about the secret governments around the world. Your comment is discredited.

Actually you might be right...I saw a documentary once which said all the rulers of this world have a shot of Egyptian pharoah blood running in them and the descendants of the Egyptian pharoahs left Egypt to Europe long back and their progeny continues to rule the world ~ ofcourse in tandem with the Zionists.

 

[doublemaster]

I have a very good answer for that.

Insulting Prophet Mohammed, even though it maybe in a bad taste, does not hurt anybody physically. The only people that harm anyone physically when Mohammed is insulted, are Muslims. Also, it does not particularly point to a tragedy that happened in the past.

However, the Holocaust ACTUALLY happened. 6 million innocent people died. The Holocaust was not a religious event, it was mass murder. A lot of present day Israelis might have had some of their relatives killed in that event, so it is insensitive and barbaric to bully and mock the Holocaust.


Lastly, the Holocaust is a historic event. Jews do not go around burning buildings when someone denies the holocaust.

But Mohammed is a religious figure, and Muslims will go around burning buildings and attacking **** if someone talks trash about Mohammed.

A historic event and a religious figure are totally different. And the historic event has more credibility and deserves more respect.

Why should you expect every one same?
For you a historic event might be more important. But for muslims religious feelings hurt more.

 

[doublemaster]

Actually muslims cant toloerate insult to Muhammed (PBUH) just because we love him. In same way we cant tolerate insult to our parents. "Religion" just helped to love him. It is just love towards him makes us angry. Like insult to our parents will make us angry just because we love him. Parents, brothers,sisters etc just one of the reason for love.

For you your religious things never hurt because you dont love.

Try insult to sikhs. I know they dont burn embassies (i know it is absolutely wrong). Thats because they dont think US as enemey. US has not done to sikhs like what they have done to Muslims.
Muslims really really hate US so much.

Actually muslims cant toloerate insult to Muhammed (PBUH) just because we love him. In same way we cant tolerate insult to our parents. "Religion" just helped to love him. It is just love towards him makes us angry. Like insult to our parents will make us angry just because we love him. Parents, brothers,sisters etc just one of the reason for love.

For you your religious things never hurt because you dont love.

Try insult to sikhs. I know they dont burn embassies (i know it is absolutely wrong). Thats because they dont think US as enemey. US has not done to sikhs like what they have done to Muslims.
Muslims really really hate US so much.

 

[mfreak]

Why should you expect every one same?
For you a historic event might be more important. But for muslims religious feelings hurt more.

I am not talking about my perceptions. I neither bully or mock the holocaust nor mock Mohammed.

I am an Atheist, and if I criticize something I criticize religion, I dont mock any religious figure as that is of no use to me.

I was merely talking about how that analogy was wrong and doesnt follow logically. Hurt feelings and an actual tragedy (the denial of which is akin to supporting nazism) are different.

Actually muslims cant toloerate insult to Muhammed (PBUH) just because we love him. In same way we cant tolerate insult to our parents. "Religion" just helped to love him. It is just love towards him makes us angry. Like insult to our parents will make us angry just because we love him. Parents, brothers,sisters etc just one of the reason for love.

For you your religious things never hurt because you dont love.

Try insult to sikhs. I know they dont burn embassies (i know it is absolutely wrong). Thats because they dont think US as enemey. US has not done to sikhs like what they have done to Muslims.
Muslims really really hate US so much.

I am going to assume that you are a muslim. But what has the US done to you? You are an Indian first and then a muslim. Or is it the other way around deep down in your heart? If it is, you may wanna take a deeper look at yourself and understand that it is India that you should be loyal to, not "muslims" which is a broad generalization.

Secondly, you cant go around burning buildings and killing people just cuz you are hurt or pissed off. That is not even a justification.