Has the relationship between Air Force and Army improved?

[wiseone2]

One criticism of Pakistans performance in 1965, 1971, and Kargil, was that there was a distinct lack of understanding and communication between the different branches of the military.From the Kargil War wiki:

"After the war, a few changes were made to the Pakistan armed forces. In recognition of the Northern Light Infantry's performance in the war, which even drew praise from a retired Indian Lt. General, the regiment was incorporated into the regular army.[76] The war showed that despite a tactically sound plan that had the element of surprise, little groundwork had been done to gauge the politico-diplomatic ramifications.[161] And like previous unsuccessful infiltrations attempts, such as Operation Gibraltar, which sparked the 1965 war, there was little co-ordination or information sharing among the branches of the Pakistani Armed Forces. One US Intelligence study is reported to have stated that Kargil was yet another example of Pakistan's (lack of) grand strategy, repeating the follies of the previous wars.[162] In 2013, General Musharraf's close collaborator and confidential subordinate Lieutenant General (retired) Shahid Aziz revealed to Pakistan's news televisions and electronic media, that "[Kargil] adventure' was India's intelligence failure and Pakistan's miscalculated move, the Kargil operation was known only to General Parvez Musharraf and four of his close collaborators".[163][164][165]"​

Of course, Pakistan Air Force is one of our greatest institutions in this country , but time and time again when conflict comes around they act very autonomously, instead of being part of a larger joint-defence structure with both the Army and the Navy. For things such as fire support, air defense, and airlifts, communication is critical.

I understand that with Zarb-E-Azb coordination with air strikes is improved, but I fear that whatever relationship that was created will just be limited to that operation and forgotten afterwards. I think that for the best advantage, we need to establish a much deeper command structure where both wings can efficiently coordinate with eachother.

Thoughts?

isn't your air force leadership subordinate to the army leadership ??

 

[Jinn Baba]

Didn't one of the air chiefs recently (last few years) say that PA allocated its own funds to be spent on new PAF jets? If that isn't an appreciation from PA of the role PAF plays then I don't know what is.

Furthermore there has clearly been a lot of coordination between army and air force throughout the anti terror operations.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

isn't your air force leadership subordinate to the army leadership ??

No.

There is joint chiefs of staff, but otherwise they each act rather independently. Before WoT I'm not sure there was any kind of coordination.

 

[X-2.]

Probleum is they created joint chief of staff seat but airforce and nave never given a chance to lead the post

Future wars only be decided how good airforce and navy is land forces has 30 percent influence on war Pak army has to realize it has to create greater trust and communication and equal chance in budget and post of joint chief of staff

We listen everyday core commanders meeting happening only army commander sit their and discuss

There should be trilateral meeting every year and 15 day exercise mandatory between three pullers to enhance more communication



We must start NCC mandatory for all collage students

Army has more influence on structure that's y lead but. Im Agree with you,i have seen other discrimination from media on this defence day as wl that they gave less coverage to navy then air force and army ,there should be trilateral meetings and exercises every year

 

[wiseone2]

No.

There is joint chiefs of staff, but otherwise they each act rather independently. Before WoT I'm not sure there was any kind of coordination.

are you saying your air force can oppose your army on matters of national security ?

 

[Flash_Ninja]

are you saying your air force can oppose your army on matters of national security ?

before the WoT, I remember reading about how Army and Air Force chiefs came into disagreements over strategy and how there was often a lack of communication. I believe after kargil they realised the Army and Air Force need to be much more aligned, and so they implemented a string of reforms and you can see the effectiveness of that in Zarb-E-Azb

 

[Signalian]

One criticism of Pakistans performance in 1965, 1971, and Kargil, was that there was a distinct lack of understanding and communication between the different branches of the military.From the Kargil War wiki:

"After the war, a few changes were made to the Pakistan armed forces. In recognition of the Northern Light Infantry's performance in the war, which even drew praise from a retired Indian Lt. General, the regiment was incorporated into the regular army.[76] The war showed that despite a tactically sound plan that had the element of surprise, little groundwork had been done to gauge the politico-diplomatic ramifications.[161] And like previous unsuccessful infiltrations attempts, such as Operation Gibraltar, which sparked the 1965 war, there was little co-ordination or information sharing among the branches of the Pakistani Armed Forces. One US Intelligence study is reported to have stated that Kargil was yet another example of Pakistan's (lack of) grand strategy, repeating the follies of the previous wars.[162] In 2013, General Musharraf's close collaborator and confidential subordinate Lieutenant General (retired) Shahid Aziz revealed to Pakistan's news televisions and electronic media, that "[Kargil] adventure' was India's intelligence failure and Pakistan's miscalculated move, the Kargil operation was known only to General Parvez Musharraf and four of his close collaborators".[163][164][165]"​

Of course, Pakistan Air Force is one of our greatest institutions in this country , but time and time again when conflict comes around they act very autonomously, instead of being part of a larger joint-defence structure with both the Army and the Navy. For things such as fire support, air defense, and airlifts, communication is critical.

I understand that with Zarb-E-Azb coordination with air strikes is improved, but I fear that whatever relationship that was created will just be limited to that operation and forgotten afterwards. I think that for the best advantage, we need to establish a much deeper command structure where both wings can efficiently coordinate with eachother.

Thoughts?

this HQ is made for a purpose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Staff_Headquarters_(Pakistan)

 

[Flash_Ninja]

this HQ is made for a purpose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Staff_Headquarters_(Pakistan)

Isn't this just for general matters, rather than real time operations?

Besides, this was set up after 1971, but the analysis of kargil in 1999 shows that coordination was still lacking.

 

[Signalian]

Isn't this just for general matters, rather than real time operations?

Its for both.

Besides, this was set up after 1971, but the analysis of kargil in 1999 shows that coordination was still lacking.

COAS is above JSHQ.

If he doesnt want to involve PAF, then what can JSHQ do.

 

[Sine Nomine]

COAS is above JSHQ.

If he doesnt want to involve PAF, then what can JSHQ do.

CJSHQ is a toothless tiger,he must be above COAS,what is COAS? a person equal to Naval chief and Airchief but that's not case here,COAS is ultimate authority even in Air and Navy case which has screwed output of tri services again and again.During kargil PAF simply backed out from office just saying''next time do tell uss before attacking anyone''
Our Officer's knowledge of each other's work is pathetic in many cases,that's also a reason behind ineffectiveness of CJSHQ.

 

[araz]

So if an officer on the ground puts in a request for air support, what happens? Does the Army put the call in to the air force, or do they use their own aviation corps?

You are confusing 2 different scenarios. The first is a planned aggressive or defensive counter attack. Assetts would be allocated and ready for such a scenario. The second would be one of emergency use in case of unexpected attack. In those cases depending on availability and feasibility assetts would be deployed if available. Depending on who is nearer what the threat is and how best it can be met army or AF units will respond and come to help.
A