Has the American establishment finally crossed the line with Pakistan ...

[Samurai_assassin]

America is going through a civil war like situation at the moment with all the unrest. Do they even have the capacity to think about Pakistan?

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

If Pakistan trade the area with US I bet one thing US will turn Pakistan land into global power on the other hand Pakistani leadership will find a way to **** up a good country and economy like US into what it is today. Trump is Pakistani style leadership is it not?
Lots of talk and bull shit no work but taking credit for everything and not giving 2 fs because your vote bank is there no matter what.

 

[LeGenD]

We should be fully independent

This.

(1) Real power comes from a functioning economy, massive investment in education and R&D aspects, a functioning Law & Order system, and a culture of brotherhood and discipline in which corruption is dissuaded and politics of division take a backseat - characteristics which have the potential to create a superpower if followed to even like 70% in practice.

Having constructive relations with other countries is always helpful but become a superpower yourself instead of depending upon others so that other countries gravitate towards you and not the other way around.

Pakistan is a big country with a large population, and still in such a struggling condition which is really sad.

Others will not save you if a superpower come after you. Their 'saving' is not worth it when much of the country is burning in the end.

Trump administration contemplated and even threatened to wipe DPRK off the map in 2017 [in UN no less] and China could do nothing about it. DPRK leader Kim Jong-Un wrote a letter to Donald Trump to soothe tensions and commence talks. Whether the talks were fruitful or not is secondary, but TEMPERS were under control since.

DPRK have developed and tested ICBM and thermonuclear weapons by the way. But these things will not save you if you are somebody's poodle - refer back to (1) above.

They are not afraid of mere weapons amd armies, they after afraid of powerful nations which can challenge them on many fronts.

Pakistan should put its house in order, get its act together, and strive to become a superpower itself. This is the only way...

 

[IceCold]

Ha. If you had access you to neutral sources you would know how Nixon saved West Pakistan in 1971.
Here is one -
https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e7/48542.htm

And the only one who went whining to Clinton on July 4, 1999 was your Prime Minister asking for an exit. Who told you to go? Should have fought if you wanted.

Again BS. Was it Nixon or the chinese threat.
Here:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/41393113?seq=1

 

[ebrahym]

Ha. If you had access you to neutral sources you would know how Nixon saved West Pakistan in 1971.
Here is one -
https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e7/48542.htm

And the only one who went whining to Clinton on July 4, 1999 was your Prime Minister asking for an exit. Who told you to go? Should have fought if you wanted.

i have tackled this many times ........ there is a whole documentry about Kargil war in which Clinton first confronts Nawaz Sharif about troops in kargil and then brags about how he made them (Pakistan) withdraw......
he literally himself says that first Indian PM called him and then American intelligence confirmed this and then he confronted Nawaz....
i believe his exact words were....
"either he was lying or was the best actor in the world"...
US saved India in Kargil

Kargil you said? Was it Atal Bihari Bajpayee who ran to US with his entire family?

it was ..... not with his whole family though .... but he did complain on a phone line..


you know what I am gonna have to post that whole documentary on this forum.....
and i will as soon as I can.

I believe the relationship between DOD and the Pakistan armed forces is much stronger than anyone thinks. Despite all public political assertions, DOD will never abandon Pakistan.

Pakistan's military-to-military contacts are very strong around the world.....
much stronger than India..... infact they are not even in the same league....
This really paid off in 27 feb incident..... it was essential in deterring ground-to-ground missile strikes by India when we were informed before hand by "friendly nation"

 

[scorpionx]

i have tackled this many times ........ there is a whole documentry about Kargil war in which Clinton first confronts Nawaz Sharif about troops in kargil and then brags about how he made them (Pakistan) withdraw......
he literally himself says that first Indian PM called him and then American intelligence confirmed this and then he confronted Nawaz....
i believe his exact words were....
"either he was lying or was the best actor in the world"...
US saved India in Kargil


it was ..... not with his whole family though .... but he did complain on a phone line..


you know what I am gonna have to post that whole documentary on this forum.....
and i will as soon as I can.

Do you realize it had been a standard habit of both the country's figureheads to call big powers whenever a serious situation arised on military front? But there is difference between informing, asking to withdraw and begging. Don't twist things as your own convenience. What Vajpayee told Clinton is well documented and know the difference.

 

[Asian.Century]

In Kargil, India ran first to US. India always ran to US for help, when its position went shaky.

US has always given lip service to Pakistan, call peace, reduce tensions, backoff, sanctions and thats why Pakistani Military Establishment has lost much in real worth. And thats a dilema Pakistan has to live with.

 

[ebrahym]

Hardly broke? In a city you surrendered? Makes perfect sense.
Also read the link above.

Sam manekshaw himself claimed that not only was they astonished on Pakistan's warfighting capability but that he had us outnumbered 15-1 .....
even during surrender a handful of Indian officials were actually present inside dhakka...
Niazi in his memoirs wrote that we could have defended dhakka for months..... but sooner or later it had to end the same way....

Do you realize it had been a standard habit of both the country's figureheads to call big powers whenever a serious situation arised on military front? But there is difference between informing, asking to withdraw and begging. Don't twist things as your own convenience. What Vajpayee told Clinton is well documented and know the difference.

exactly ......dont twist things for your own convenience.......
your username has been noted and it will be tagged with "documented" documentary .........
regards....

@scorpionx since i can be late
i am giving you these pieces to read until then......
they were gathered after a quick google search ....nothing fancy ...... one is from foreign policy ..... the other is from Yale university....
https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/day-nuclear-conflict-was-averted
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/14/the-story-of-how-nawaz-sharif-pulled-back-from-nuclear-war/

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Pakistan should put its house in order, get its act together, and strive to become a superpower itself. This is the only way..

Keyword and mindset you said " strive to become a superpower itself".
Unfortunately we live by the laws of
"Appay tapsi tay thus karsi"

 

[Jackdaws]

Go ahead prove that it that you evicted Pakistani troops from Dhaka.

Evicted? We were the landlords of Dacca? Were we supposed to give them eviction notice?

i have tackled this many times ........ there is a whole documentry about Kargil war in which Clinton first confronts Nawaz Sharif about troops in kargil and then brags about how he made them (Pakistan) withdraw......
he literally himself says that first Indian PM called him and then American intelligence confirmed this and then he confronted Nawaz....
i believe his exact words were....
"either he was lying or was the best actor in the world"...
US saved India in Kargil


it was ..... not with his whole family though .... but he did complain on a phone line..


you know what I am gonna have to post that whole documentary on this forum.....
and i will as soon as I can.


Pakistan's military-to-military contacts are very strong around the world.....
much stronger than India..... infact they are not even in the same league....
This really paid off in 27 feb incident..... it was essential in deterring ground-to-ground missile strikes by India when we were informed before hand by "friendly nation"

Vajpayee told Clinton that there would be no talks and no negotiation nor would Indian military action stop till all of Kargil is back with India. First Sartaz Aziz came to India asking to stop military action. Jaswant Singh said no. Then Nawaz ran to USA. Feel free to post any documentary. It will bear out these sequence of events.

Again BS. Was it Nixon or the chinese threat.
Here:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/41393113?seq=1

Lol. How is it BS if it is state department unclassified document? Is the US State Department on the payroll of Modi?

 

[scorpionx]

Sam manekshaw himself claimed that not only was they astonished on Pakistan's warfighting capability but that he had us outnumbered 15-1 .....
even during surrender a handful of Indian officials were actually present inside dhakka...
Niazi in his memoirs wrote that we could have defended dhakka for months..... but sooner or later it had to end the same way....


exactly ......dont twist things for your own convenience.......
your username has been noted and it will be tagged with "documented" documentary .........
regards....

@scorpionx since i can be late
i am giving you these pieces to read until then......
they were gathered after a quick google search ....nothing fancy ...... one is from foreign policy ..... the other is from Yale university....
https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/day-nuclear-conflict-was-averted
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/14/the-story-of-how-nawaz-sharif-pulled-back-from-nuclear-war/

Please read your own source. NS was not invited. Read the language used by Americans. I have hardly seen such disrespectful treatment to a head of the state by another. I am quite aware what happened those days, not just from Indian authors but Pakistani and American authors as well. So save your documentary for yourself. You can change narrative but you can't change history. Indian response forced you to go nuclear. Does that ring any bell?

 

[khail007]

Nonsense. The Americans have over the years saved the Pakistanis.

Pure BS - indeed they saved the games among bunch of corrupt politicians and benefitted them.

 

[Maarkhoor]

And the only one who went whining to Clinton on July 4, 1999 was your Prime Minister asking for an exit. Who told you to go? Should have fought if you wanted.

I disagree to that part, It was Indian diplomat and minster who were chasing USA president wherever he goes and then our idiot P.M surrenders under Clinton's pressure and pull back troops.

Fighting was on 2 fronts even after the war your army does't know that we intruded on 5 locations.

 

[Jackdaws]

Is it even possible for India to invade Pak? Indians will be very worried of the mass retaliation. Any misadventure NO Indian solider should be spared.

India is not stupid to invade Pak. Such stupidity to invade has been the sole domain of tin pot Pakistani generals with some tactics in place and 0 strategy in place.

I disagree to that part, It was Indian diplomat and minster who were chasing USA president wherever he goes and then our idiot P.M surrenders under Clinton's pressure and pull back troops.

Fighting was on 2 fronts even after the war your army does't know that we intruded on 5 locations.

Which Indian diplomat?

 

[Maarkhoor]

Which Indian diplomat?

Google it....Even there is video of Clinton interview on youtube where he admits that Indian were chasing him everywhere to mediate.