Has China Won?

[vi-va]

As much as I do not like certain aspects of Democracy here in the US, I also do not want a political system where someone like Mao can cause massive deaths and destruction unabated for decades.

1. During Mao era, population doubled. Before Mao, famine is normal day to day life.
2. During Mao era, tens of thousands of dam built, before Mao, flood and drought is day to day life.
3. During Mao ear, infectious disease epidemic was controlled, first time in China history, such as smallpox, plague, cholera, dysentery, typhoid, measles, diphtheria, pertussis, meningitis, mumps, schistosomiasis, Kala Azar, hemorrhagic fever, leptospirosis, encephalitis B, typhus, malaria, Kala Azar, leprosy, scarlet fever and pinkeye.
4. During Mao era, we defend China from invasion, have direct war with US in Korean peninsula, push Yankees and other 17 countries so called UN army back to 38°, first time since 1840.
5. During Mao era, we assisted, trained Vietnamese to defeat Yankee invasion, drove them out of East Asia and Southeast Asia, Yankees left tens of thousands body, failed politically, economically. US used Agent Orange, cause massive humanitarian disaster, but still defeated.
6. During Mao era, China built more rail way then past 100 years, more road them past 100 years, more hospital than past 100 years, more school than past 100 years.
7. During Mao era, we have a strong army, equipped with self-made jets, tanks, rifles, artilleries.
8. During Mao era, we have ICBM, satellite, rockets, multi-staged thermonuclear weapon which India lacks even today.

The Chinese People Have Stood Up! 1949, opening address by Mao Zedong , every great powers laughed at Chinese, the so called Sick Man of East Asia.
When we push Yankees back to 38°, everyone's jaw dropped to the ground.

The greatest man in China history.

When former colonizers demonize our founder of China, every year, every week, every day. One thing is for sure, he must be a patriot.

When former colonizers praise founder of India/South Africa, such as Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, one thing is for sure. He must did something for the sake of former colonizers.

Please don't use western lens to judge our greatest founder, because majority of 1.4 billions Chinese love him so much.

 

[fallstuff]

1. During Mao era, population doubled. Before Mao, famine is normal day to day life.
2. During Mao era, tens of thousands of dam built, before Mao, flood and drought is day to day life.
3. During Mao ear, infectious disease epidemic was controlled, first time in China history, such as smallpox, plague, cholera, dysentery, typhoid, measles, diphtheria, pertussis, meningitis, mumps, schistosomiasis, Kala Azar, hemorrhagic fever, leptospirosis, encephalitis B, typhus, malaria, Kala Azar, leprosy, scarlet fever and pinkeye.
4. During Mao era, we defend China from invasion, have direct war with US in Korean peninsula, push Yankees and other 17 countries so called UN army back to 38°, first time since 1840.
5. During Mao era, we assisted, trained Vietnamese to defeat Yankee invasion, drove them out of East Asia and Southeast Asia, Yankees left tens of thousands body, failed politically, economically. US used Agent Orange, cause massive humanitarian disaster, but still defeated.
6. During Mao era, China built more rail way then past 100 years, more road them past 100 years, more hospital than past 100 years, more school than past 100 years.
7. During Mao era, we have a strong army, equipped with self-made jets, tanks, rifles, artilleries.
8. During Mao era, we have ICBM, satellite, rockets, multi-staged thermonuclear weapon which India lacks even today.

The Chinese People Have Stood Up! 1949, opening address by Mao Zedong , every great powers laughed at Chinese, the so called Sick Man of East Asia.
When we push Yankees back to 38°, everyone's jaw dropped to the ground.

The greatest man in China history.

When former colonizers demonize our founder of China, every year, every week, every day. One thing is for sure, he must be a patriot.

When former colonizers praise founder of India/South Africa, such as Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, one thing is for sure. He must did something for the sake of former colonizers.

Please don't use western lens to judge our greatest founder, because majority of 1.4 billions Chinese love him so much.

Impressive infrastructural development in Mao's time.
However, blaming the culture of the nation for leadership failure is the sign of a megalomaniac. Chinese people followed Mao's policies to the letter, however Mao certainly was not willing to entertain any thought that his decision to centralize all economic activities in the hand of the government was a spectacular failure.

 

[vi-va]

Impressive infrastructural development in Mao's time.
However, blaming the culture of the nation for leadership failure is the sign of a megalomaniac. Chinese people followed Mao's policies to the letter, however Mao certainly was not willing to entertain any thought that his decision to centralize all economic activities in the hand of the government was a spectacular failure.

Mao is no saint. Chinese officially admit Mao's achievement as well as mistakes. We don't praise our leader as God, or Stalin, or Emperor. We Chinese simply analyze his good and bad from historian perspective.

1. Without Mao, CCP was already been killed in 1933-1934.
2. Without Mao, CCP won't succeed during Long March.
3. Without Mao, CCP won't defeat Japanese invasion
4. Without Mao, CCP won't defeat KMT and end civil war so fast.
5. Without Mao, China dare not to challenge US and 17 other nations so called UN army in Korean Peninsula which benefit China so much.
6. Without Mao, China will not defeat India so successfully in 1962.
7. Without Mao, China won't push US to the limits, US won't come to China for peace during Vietnam War.
8. Without Mao, US won't restore foreign relationship with China.

Mao is a fighter, he is the man China needed the most during hard time.

1. Mao created the DNA of New China, while Gandhi and Nehru created modern India's. The fundamental difference of both countries DNA will make the gap bigger and bigger.
2. Unlike India, China was surrounded by 2 super power, both of which are very hostile toward China during Cold War. There is little chance China can survive without a tough leader like Mao.
3. Please put yourself in Chinese's shoes, from historian perspective, China succeeded while India failed, Mao's achievement is the major factor.
4. Mao broke the encircle, not only broke, but jump out of the encircle. Now China embrace the world, keep marching forward. China have best relationship in history with Russia, best international environment in history.
5. The current hostility of US and India is nothing compare to what we have faced during Mao era. The economy balance of power, the military balance of power has been better never before. Mao lead us through the hard time, we Chinese appreciate and love him very much.

 

[fallstuff]

1. During Mao era, population doubled. Before Mao, famine is normal day to day life.
2. During Mao era, tens of thousands of dam built, before Mao, flood and drought is day to day life.
3. During Mao ear, infectious disease epidemic was controlled, first time in China history, such as smallpox, plague, cholera, dysentery, typhoid, measles, diphtheria, pertussis, meningitis, mumps, schistosomiasis, Kala Azar, hemorrhagic fever, leptospirosis, encephalitis B, typhus, malaria, Kala Azar, leprosy, scarlet fever and pinkeye.
4. During Mao era, we defend China from invasion, have direct war with US in Korean peninsula, push Yankees and other 17 countries so called UN army back to 38°, first time since 1840.
5. During Mao era, we assisted, trained Vietnamese to defeat Yankee invasion, drove them out of East Asia and Southeast Asia, Yankees left tens of thousands body, failed politically, economically. US used Agent Orange, cause massive humanitarian disaster, but still defeated.
6. During Mao era, China built more rail way then past 100 years, more road them past 100 years, more hospital than past 100 years, more school than past 100 years.
7. During Mao era, we have a strong army, equipped with self-made jets, tanks, rifles, artilleries.
8. During Mao era, we have ICBM, satellite, rockets, multi-staged thermonuclear weapon which India lacks even today.

The Chinese People Have Stood Up! 1949, opening address by Mao Zedong , every great powers laughed at Chinese, the so called Sick Man of East Asia.
When we push Yankees back to 38°, everyone's jaw dropped to the ground.

The greatest man in China history.

When former colonizers demonize our founder of China, every year, every week, every day. One thing is for sure, he must be a patriot.

When former colonizers praise founder of India/South Africa, such as Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, one thing is for sure. He must did something for the sake of former colonizers.

Please don't use western lens to judge our greatest founder, because majority of 1.4 billions Chinese love him so much.

You have your lenses, I have mine. We are never going to be on the same page. I somehow get a feeling you hold CCP with very high regards. I do not. I like to side with the people as I have little faith in politicians. Leaders should be held accountable to the people as the leaders are public servants.
I think CCP were aimlessly meandering the first thirty years of existence. Deng Xiaoping decided to let the people start their own businesses thereby setting the nation on right track.

Folks in Hong Kong and Taiwan are doing just fine economically without any involvement of the CCP. Chinese people are intelligent and hardworking, the Government just need to let them do whatever they need to do.

Anyway I am just going leave it at agree to disagree.

 

[GumNaam]

Frankly the title of this thread is wrong, the first two words need to be switched to reflect the true ground reality.

 

[vi-va]

You have your lenses, I have mine. We are never going to be on the same page. I somehow get a feeling you hold CCP with very high regards. I do not. I like to side with the people as I have little faith in politicians. Leaders should be held accountable to the people as the leaders are public servants.
I think CCP were aimlessly meandering the first thirty years of existence. Deng Xiaoping decided to let the people start their own businesses thereby setting the nation on right track.

Folks in Hong Kong and Taiwan are doing just fine economically without any involvement of the CCP. Chinese people are intelligent and hardworking, the Government just need to let them do whatever they need to do.

Anyway I am just going leave it at agree to disagree.

USA and European democracy's accountability is after election, in which case, the mass may elect an a$$hole and regret, then make him step down. In history there are quite some figures who are very good at manipulating the mass, such as Hitler, Mussolini, or Trump. When he step down, damage was made.

You can clearly see most of leaders in developing countries are not accountable at all comparing with China in recent 40 years. Many leaders in developed countries are opportunities, such as Sarkozy, Francios Hollande, Silvio Berlusconi and so on. George W. Bush has no brain, Obama is a typical politician who focus on votes only, and then Trump.

Selecting a wise leader in western political system is almost impossible after cold war. Most of the leaders only interested in either his own interest or party interest. Of course the mass can regret and abandon the politicians.

Italians regretted repeatedly:
2011 Mario Monti 1 year, 163 days in office
2013 Enrico Letta 300 days in office
2014 MatteoRenzi 2 years, 294 days in office
2016 Paolo Gentiloni 1 year, 171 days in office
2018 Giuseppe Conte 1 year, 9 days in office

Japanese regretted repeatedly:
1989 Sōsuke Uno 69 days
1989 Toshiki Kaifu 2 years and 88 days
1991 Kiichi Miyazawa 1 year and 278 days
1993 Morihiro Hosokawa 263 days
1994 Tsutomu Hata 64 days
1994 Tomiichi Murayama 1 year and 196 days
1996 Ryūtarō Hashimoto 2 years and 201 days
1998 Keizō Obuchi 2 years and 201 days
2000 Yoshirō Mori 1 year and 22 days
2001 Junichirō Koizumi 5 years and 154 days
2006 Shinzō Abe 1 year and 1 day
2007 Yasuo Fukuda 365 days
2008 Tarō Asō 358 days
2009 Yukio Hatoyama 266 days
2010 Naoto Kan 1 year and 87 days
2011 Yoshihiko Noda 1 year and 116 days

India Prime Minister length of term

This fast change of head of the government is not accountability, this is called bad governance, unstable, populism and irresponsible for the country and people.

Western system can only work when economy is good. When economy goes bad, chaos happens if not revolution.

Regarding human rights, I have said enough. it's abused, domestically and internationally. In USA, human rights is excuse for self-interest on a lot of issues. Internationally, human rights is the tool to demonize other countries, otherwise USA won't sleep in bed with Saudi Arabia Mr. Bone Saws. I am fine with it, but I am not comfortable with the hypocrisy.

A good system should select leader more wisely. I think US system should learn from China on this regard.

China meritocracy has long history and use imperial examination system (科举制度) to select elites which is different from western one which is base on blood. China has been using imperial examination system since Sui Dynasty(隋朝) which is 1400 years ago.

The central goverment has schools(中央党校) and Organization Department（中共组织部）. There is a TED video on youtube for this:

I am writing this without payment from anyone. I am seriously comparing different political systems. We Chinese are open to learn from any political systems as long as it fit us.

Edit:
W Bush went to war in Iraq due to WMD but no WMD was found. Over 4000 Americans died and many more maimed. The US treasury drained. Iraq as a country destroyed and million displaced and handed over to Iran which is now US's new enemy.

Is W Bush accountable ?

=================
As you can see the leaders of Indian, US and across European countries, the depth of the corruption is unimaginable. Not to mention the quality of lower ranking city mayors. There are few countries in the world which have NOT been controlled by bankers, transnational corporations. Iran and China are 2 of them.

Do you know any US congressman who is innocent? They are all corrupted.

Every single US president should go jail.

1. Bush junior, start 2 wars with fabricated proof.
2. Clinton and Hilary, the most corrupted US presents and family in recent decades. How many people they killed to cover their corruption?
   • Clinton Body Count (conspiracy theory).
   • Clinton Foundation
   • Hillary Clinton Email Archive
3. Obama, his cabin is full filled by Citigroup
   • Citigroup chose Obama’s 2008 cabinet, WikiLeaks document reveals
   • The Most Important WikiLeaks Revelation Isn’t About Hillary Clinton

The corruption depth of west countries are deeper than people usually thought.

In most countries, crony capitalism, entrenched corruption, a powerful security service and the absence of any rule of law has continued unchecked.

Are those politicians in so called democracy countries accountable and guilty for their doings?

No, those criminals stepped down, have world class protection of FBI, and enjoying billionaire life.

 

[vi-va]

Frankly the title of this thread is wrong, the first two words need to be switched to reflect the true ground reality.

Laugh my a$$ off, good one.

 

[sinait]

You have your lenses, I have mine. We are never going to be on the same page. I somehow get a feeling you hold CCP with very high regards. I do not. I like to side with the people as I have little faith in politicians. Leaders should be held accountable to the people as the leaders are public servants.
I think CCP were aimlessly meandering the first thirty years of existence. Deng Xiaoping decided to let the people start their own businesses thereby setting the nation on right track.

Folks in Hong Kong and Taiwan are doing just fine economically without any involvement of the CCP. Chinese people are intelligent and hardworking, the Government just need to let them do whatever they need to do.

Anyway I am just going leave it at agree to disagree.

The achievements of CCP is well known and acknowledged by the world.

I somehow get a feeling you hold CCP with very high regards.
I do not

You don't need to.
Mao is not responsible for Bangladesh or your newly IDOLIZED FORMER WHITE MASTERS.

Mao did well by the Chinese and that's all that matters.
May you happily carry on being brainwashed by your AMERICAN IDOLS, their expertise being WE LIE, WE CHEAT, WE STOLE.
.

 

[fallstuff]

The achievements of CCP is well known and acknowledged by the world.

You don't need to.
Mao is not responsible for Bangladesh or your newly IDOLIZED FORMER WHITE MASTERS.

Mao did well by the Chinese and that's all that matters.
May you happily carry on being brainwashed by your AMERICAN IDOLS, their expertise being WE LIE, WE CHEAT, WE STOLE.
.

There is no reason to get so thin skinned as It is just a discussion forum.

If the CCP policies that were introduced in the late 1970's were introduced in the 1950's China would be developed by now like Taiwan and South Korea.

You cannot deny the fact that Chinese exports to US and the Western Europe along with the proper CCP policies starting in the late 1970's help pulled China out of extreme poverty.

 

[sinait]

There is no reason to get so thin skinned as It is just a discussion forum.

If the CCP policies that were introduced in the late 1970's were introduced in the 1950's China would be developed by now like Taiwan and South Korea.

You cannot deny the fact that Chinese exports to US and the Western Europe along with the proper CCP policies starting in the late 1970's help pulled China out of extreme poverty.

You are very NAIVE.
Even as an US ally, Japan was restricted in its development by the US when it got too big.
Only those tiny nations that don't threaten the hegemony of the US, will be supported by the Financial and Military hegemon to develop.

China was lucky that when the US was starting to pile up the pressure, 9/11 happened, followed by Iraq which gave China extra years to develop its economy where it can now rival the US.
I watched how the US was demonizing Japan daily and now China.

Don't make me laugh.
Just because you have STOCKHOLM SYNDROME, and inferiority complex, you thought others have it too.
Singapore wouldn't be at its status today if we are thin skinned with inferiority complex, always looking for others to blame like you.
You don't see us acting as STOOGES going on a FRENZIED ATTACK FOR YOUR WHITE MASTERS based on their LIES and PROPAGANDA.

Don't make countries choose sides, says Singapore PM Lee Hsien Loong

Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong says uncertainty over Washington's commitment to a "reliable and constructive" presence in Asia as the most critical issue facing the region.

www.afr.com

Don't make countries choose sides, says Singapore PM Lee Hsien Loong
.

 

[aziqbal]

yes just ask how Huawei won

the most advanced Chinese company back back the state killed by a single pass of US law

Huawei 'failed to improve UK security standards'

Huawei has failed to adequately tackle security flaws in equipment used in the UK's telecoms networks despite previous complaints, an official report says.
It also flagged that a vulnerability "of national significance" had occurred in 2019 but been fixed before it could be exploited.
The assessment was given by an oversight board, chaired by a member of the cyber-spy agency GCHQ.
It could influence other nations weighing up use of Huawei's kit.
The report said that GCHQ's National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) had seen no evidence that Huawei had made a significant shift in its approach to the matter.
And it added that while some improvements had been made, it had no confidence they were sustainable.
As a result, it concluded, the board could only provide "limited assurance that all risks to UK national security" could be mitigated in the long-term.
In July, the government announced that due to US sanctions Huawei would eventually be excluded from the new 5G telecoms network by 2027, but the Chinese company can continue to play a role in older mobile phone networks and fixed broadband.
The US has argued that using Huawei's equipment creates a risk of the Chinese state carrying out espionage or sabotage, something the company has always denied.
Despite the criticisms, British security officials say they can manage the current risks posed by using Huawei's existing kit, and they do not believe the defects they have found are a result of Chinese state interference.
Huawei has responded saying the report highlights its commitment to openness and transparency.
"The report acknowledges that while our software transformation process is in its infancy, we have made some progress in improving our software engineering capabilities," a spokesman said.
Although the company now has limited prospects in the UK, it is still hoping to sell its 5G kits to other parts of Europe.
Earlier this week, the chief of its Italian business suggested that other countries could carry out detailed inspections of their own to help overcome security concerns.
"We will open our insides, we are available to be vivisected to respond to all of this political pressure," said Luigi De Vecchis.
However, the Financial Times has reported that Germany is set to be next to ban local networks from using the firm's 5G products.
One expert said setting up an operation like HSEC required a state to provide considerable resources, and offered no guarantee of success.
"Even if Huawei passes the technical evaluation, which we see from today's report is not certain, they may yet be blocked at the political level," said Emily Taylor, editor of the Journal of Cyber Policy.
Delayed findings
Huawei equipment has been used in the UK for a decade and a half.
Since 2010, a special Huawei Cyber Security Evaluation Centre (HCSEC), based in Banbury, has been tasked with checking its telecoms infrastructure products.
An oversight board then examines the work of HCSEC and reports to the UK's National Security Advisor annually, although the latest report covering 2019 was delayed because of the coronavirus pandemic.
Last year, the report raised serious concerns about standard of Huawei's equipment and software, and there is no major change in the latest assessment.
In 2018, Huawei committed to a $2bn (£1.5bn) five-year plan to improve its software engineering processes in response to previous criticism.

• Nokia clinches 5G deal with BT to phase out Huawei
• Huawei: 'Survival is the goal' as it stockpiles chips
• Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

But the new report complains that Huawei has yet to convince that it can complete the effort on time, and adds that "unless a detailed and satisfactory plan has been provided, it is not possible to offer any degree of confidence that the identified problems can be addressed by Huawei".
In particular it highlighted "poor coding practices" and said there was a "range of evidence" employees were not following Huawei's own guidelines.
Huawei argues it is still in the early stages of the plan and real improvements will only be reflected in future reports.
Broadband flaw
The report adds the amount of vulnerabilities reported in 2019 were "significantly beyond" the number found in 2018, but says this is partly due to the increasing effectiveness of the checks rather than an overall decline in standards.
But it highlights one vulnerability of "national significance" in 2019, which required extraordinary measures to fix.
The BBC has learned this was related to broadband - but officials do not believe anyone exploited the flaw.
The report covers 2019, and so does not address the period when the US imposed new sanctions affecting Huawei.
Those sanctions technically affect HCSEC itself, since it is part of Huawei, and will require changes in its organisational structure.

IMAGE COPYRIGHTHUAWEI
image captionHuawei still hopes to supply 5G equipment to other European nations
Huawei is also currently building an alternative supply chain for crucial technology affected by the sanctions.
The report comes a day after NCSC's ex-chief explained why the UK had to be alert to the risks of using Huawei's kit in unusually plain language.
"We have to plan on the basis that at some point, Huawei could be made subservient operationally to the Chinese state," Ciaran Martin told a committee of MPs.
"You always have to have in mind a scenario where every bit of involvement of Huawei was turned against the UK.
"And you don't make that assumption for Nokia, you don't make that assumption for Ericsson."
Additional reporting by Leo Kelion

Huawei 'failed to improve UK security standards'

Officials raise fresh concerns about firm's ability to tackle engineering problems with its products.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[fallstuff]

You are very NAIVE.
Even as an US ally, Japan was restricted in its development by the US when it got too big.
Only those tiny nations that don't threaten the hegemony of the US, will be supported by the Financial and Military hegemon to develop.

China was lucky that when the US was starting to pile up the pressure, 9/11 happened, followed by Iraq which gave China extra years to develop its economy where it can now rival the US.
I watched how the US was demonizing Japan daily and now China.

Don't make me laugh.
Just because you have STOCKHOLM SYNDROME, and inferiority complex, you thought others have it too.
Singapore wouldn't be at its status today if we are thin skinned with inferiority complex, always looking for others to blame like you.
You don't see us acting as STOOGES going on a FRENZIED ATTACK FOR YOUR WHITE MASTERS based on their LIES and PROPAGANDA.

Don't make countries choose sides, says Singapore PM Lee Hsien Loong

Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong says uncertainty over Washington's commitment to a "reliable and constructive" presence in Asia as the most critical issue facing the region.

www.afr.com

Don't make countries choose sides, says Singapore PM Lee Hsien Loong
.

A good first step to engage in a conversation would be to refrain from snides. You need to learn from history, not deny it.

Anyways the thread is about did China won ? My point is these are going to be ongoing diplomatic clashes for a while with each side claiming victory.
I wish Chinese people all the good luck.

 

[vi-va]

A good first step to engage in a conversation would be to refrain from snides. You need to learn from history, not deny it.

Anyways the thread is about did China won ? My point is these are going to be ongoing diplomatic clashes for a while with each side claiming victory.
I wish Chinese people all the good luck.

Thanks, we must be humble. We need world cooperation, especially developing countries like Bangladesh, with as many as possible countries joined in hand, we all can achieve something worth memorized.