Has China overplayed its hand?

[xunzi]

Mate...for sure you are a false flagger. Arn't you? By my analysis of threads on this forum...guys who quote "Hindus" for Indians are normally Pakistanis not Chinese.... as they don't care about other's religion as much...

Nah he's Chinese even if he has a hot temper. Even I, a realist and very pragmatic, cannot stand to see how the bully India can dictated what others in this case the land border is between Bhutan and China and has nothing to do with them. What is even worse is India don't respect the principle of treaty and pact which form the foundation of international law.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Nah he's Chinese even if he has a hot temper. Even I, a realist and very pragmatic, cannot stand to see how the bully India can dictated what others in this case the land border is between Bhutan and China and has nothing to do with them. What is even worse is India don't respect the principle of treaty and pact which form the foundation of international law.

Be more specific. Which treaty? What principles? Your generic braying is nonsensical.

Mate...for sure you are a false flagger. Arn't you? By my analysis of threads on this forum...guys who quote "Hindus" for Indians are normally Pakistanis not Chinese.... as they don't care about other's religion as much...

Actually I have a simple way of confirming who is from where And your thinking is on the money.

 

[xunzi]

Be more specific. Which treaty? What principles? Your generic braying is nonsensical.

The treaty of 1890, Convention of Calcutta which settle the border of Tibet and Britain's Sikkim.

 

[Roybot]

Nah he's Chinese even if he has a hot temper. Even I, a realist and very pragmatic, cannot stand to see how the bully India can dictated what others in this case the land border is between Bhutan and China and has nothing to do with them. What is even worse is India don't respect the principle of treaty and pact which form the foundation of international law.

China, a country of 1.4 Billion people has forcefully captured land that Bhutan claims to be its own, Bhutan a nation of just 700,000 people!!!!!

China signed an agreement with tiny Bhutan, to not to change the status quo till they have settled the border dispute.

China acts like a thug, goes and starts consolidating its hold on the disputed land anyways, thus dishonoring the agreement.

India which has an agreement with Bhutan moves in, slaps some Chinese soldiers around, and asks them to basically ef off, and tells them to go and pick on someone their own size.

Chinese start whining and crying like babies.

Who is the bully?

 

[Shajida Khan]

The treaty of 1890, Convention of Calcutta which settle the border of Tibet and Britain's Sikkim.

Issue is not with India and China border on Sikkim.

Issue is with China and Bhutan border which is disputed.


https://www.google.cn/maps/@26.9420431,89.0264942,7z
https://www.google.com/maps/@26.9420431,89.0264942,7z

See these two maps. There is your issue. The tri junction of Indo-Bhutan-Chinese border shifts by 6-8 kilometers depending upon whose version of border is accepted.

 

[Roybot]

The treaty of 1890, Convention of Calcutta which settle the border of Tibet and Britain's Sikkim.

But but but, why is China accepting a treaty signed by a colonial power! I mean that is basic premise of China disputing the McMahon line, and claiming Arunachal Pradesh as its own!!!

Do you guy have hypocrisy for breakfast?

 

[xunzi]

China, a country of 1.4 Billion people has forcefully captured land that Bhutan claims to be its own, Bhutan a nation of just 700,000 people!!!!!

China signed an agreement with tiny Bhutan, to not to change the status quo till they have settled the border dispute.

China acts like a thug, goes and starts consolidating its hold on the disputed land anyways, thus dishonoring the agreement.

India which has an agreement with Bhutan moves in, slaps some Chinese soldiers around, and ask them to basically ef off, and tell them to pick on someone their own size.

Who is the bully?

Don't bring this victimhood mentality into any discussion; otherwise you wouldn't annex Sikkim into your country right?. So you lose any high ground to talk about a big bullying a small state in a claim dispute. The fact remain is that we are 1000x more powerful than Bhutan and could have easily annex them but yet we chose to talk and negotiate with them to resolve the tiny bit of land dispute. However because of you who treat Bhutan nothing more than a proxy satellite states refused to allow Bhutan complete sovereign freedom to talk with China directly and thus the resolution never resolved to this day. You don't think we don't know that your coercion tactic on your small neighbor preventing any real solution?

I don't know what the hell you are talking about but since our soliders had move in after you stop our road construction, news are out that we destroyed 2 of your outpost in the area. And now we are requesting you very nicely to go back to your own territory. Do not misread our red line and cross into our border again.

Issue is not with India and China border on Sikkim.

Issue is with China and Bhutan border which is disputed.


https://www.google.cn/maps/@26.9420431,89.0264942,7z
https://www.google.com/maps/@26.9420431,89.0264942,7z

See these two maps. There is your issue. The tri junction of Indo-Bhutan-Chinese border shifts by 6-8 kilometers depending upon whose version of border is accepted.

Look at the map. For you to cross over to the red square spot, you would have cross into our border from the left side and that's why we told you to go back to your boarder which is to the Sikkim.

 

[Roybot]

Don't bring this victimhood mentality into any discussion; otherwise you wouldn't annex Sikkim into your country right?. So you lose any high ground to talk about a big bullying a small state in a claim dispute. The fact remain is that we are 1000x more powerful than Bhutan and could have easily annex them but yet we chose to talk and negotiate with them to resolve the tiny bit of land dispute. However because of you who treat Bhutan nothing more than a proxy satellite states refused to allow Bhutan complete sovereign freedom to talk with China directly and thus the resolution never resolved to this day. You don't think we don't know that your coercion tactic on your small neighbor preventing any real solution?

I don't know what the hell you are talking about but since our soliders had move in after you stop our road construction, news are out that we destroyed 2 of your outpost in the area. And now we are requesting you very nicely to go back to your own territory. Do not misread our red line and cross into our border again.

Sikkim joined the Indian union after a referendum, people of Sikkim actually got the right to vote and decide what they wanted for themselves. But then you are a Chinese, what would you know about voting and freedom to choose

Maintaining status quo means leaving the place as it is. The place your troops were building the road is uninhabited. The sole reason for the construction of that road was to further strengthen your military stranglehold on land that belongs to Bhutan. The road construction was being done by the Chinese army, Indian soldiers waltzed in, and asked them to piss off, which they did very obediently!

Given how treacherous the Chinese are when dealing with smaller countries( That is bullying), and their thug like behavior of dishonoring the agreement that they made with Bhutan, there is no guarantee that China will not try to pull the same stunt again in the future.

So Bhutanese and Indian soldiers will stay put. Now please ask your CPC and its mouthpieces to stop whining and whinging, frankly its very embarrassing!

 

[xunzi]

But but but, why is China accepting a treaty signed by a colonial power! I mean that is basic premise of China disputing the McMahon line, and claiming Arunachal Pradesh as its own!!!

Do you guy have hypocrisy for breakfast?

The Britain is the sole legal representation of the whole South Asia at the time, just as we have honor whatever treaty the Qing had signed with various legal owners.

 

[Roybot]

The Britain is the sole legal representation of the whole South Asia at the time, just as we have honor whatever treaty the Qing had signed with various legal owners.

Well why don't you honor the McMahon line in that case

 

[xunzi]

Sikkim joined the Indian union after a referendum, people of Sikkim actually got the right to vote and decide what they wanted for themselves. But then you are a Chinese, what would you know about voting and freedom to choose

Maintaining status quo means leaving the place as it is. The place your troops were building the road is uninhabited. The sole reason for the construction of that road was to further strengthen your military stranglehold on land that belongs to Bhutan. The road construction was being done by the Chinese army, Indian soldiers waltzed in, and asked them to piss off, which they did very obediently!

Given how treacherous the Chinese are when dealing with smaller countries( That is bullying), and their thug like behavior of dishonoring the agreement that they made with Bhutan, there is no guarantee that China will not try to pull the same stunt again in the future.

So Bhutanese and Indian soldiers will stay put. Now please ask your CPC and its mouthpieces to stop whining and whinging, frankly its very embarrassing!

You put a gun into their head and tell them to join you through a referendum. I hate to say this but this is similar to how Russia annex Crimea recently but hey believe me, I'm a realist and understand how big can swallow up small states at will. I have no issue with you annexing Sikkim if you have the capability to do so before someone intervene.

The piece of road that we have built on is constantly being patrol by our troops. Bhutan can claim that road as their own, we can claim that land as own. The fact remains who control and patrol that piece of land will be given the right to build in the area. It's a similar concept to what you did in Arunachal Pradesh. You can build what you want there and ignore our complains.

Well why don't you honor the McMahon line in that case

We have stick to the McHahon Line in our informal agreement.

 

[Roybot]

You put a gun into their head and tell them to join you through a referendum. I hate to say this but this is similar to how Russia annex Crimea recently but hey believe me, I'm a realist and understand how big can swallow up small states at will. I have no issue with you annexing Sikkim if you have the capability to do so before someone intervene.

The piece of road that we have built on is constantly being patrol by our troops. Bhutan can claim that road as their own, we can claim that land as own. The fact remains who control and patrol that piece of land will be given the right to build in the area. It's a similar concept to what you did in Arunachal Pradesh. You can build what you want there and ignore our complains.

Still better than capturing a large state like Tibet, and kicking its original inhabitants and leaders out of their own country. We did it with referendum in a dignified fashion, you did it with violence and bloodletting, therefore we have all the rights to take the moral high ground.

As for your "fact" of doing whatever you want as long as you hold the land, is exactly why the Indian and Bhutanese soldier are going to stay put. If you are driven by this logic, then why sign an agreement of maintaining status quo, only to dishonor it later? This makes your country look like a treacherous thug, and understandably makes your neighbors doubt your integrity and intentions.

We have stick to the McHahon Line in our informal agreement.

Why informal, why not make it formal and be done with it?

 

[xunzi]

Still better than capturing a large state like Tibet, and kicking its original inhabitants and leaders out of their own country. We did it with referendum in a dignified fashion, you did it with violence and bloodletting, therefore we have all the rights to take the moral high ground.

As for your "fact" of doing whatever you want as long as you hold the land, is exactly why the Indian and Bhutanese soldier are going to stay put. If you are driven by this logic, then why sign an agreement of maintaining status quo, only to dishonor it later? This makes your country look like a treacherous thug, and understandably makes your neighbors doubt your integrity and intentions.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining the history of Tibet and China. My point is very clear in how you try to annex Sikkim like how Russia annex Crimea and we know how the West views it. Actually when it comes to sticking with the principle of treaty and pact, we have a lot in common with the West than you India. This is why despite our different view in political reality, we still have a very workable relationship with the West.

If this is how you want to resolve this through force, then so be it. I have nothing left to say but remember this, it won't be us that instigate this war.

Why informal, why not make it formal and be done with it?

I'm not going to teach you how geopolitics play in close door. But let me tell you this, no states want to close the door without exempting every possible scenarios first.

 

[Roybot]

I'm not going to waste my time explaining the history of Tibet and China. My point is very clear in how you try to annex Sikkim like how Russia annex Crimea and we know how the West views it. Actually when it comes to sticking with the principle of treaty and pact, we have a lot in common with the West than you India. This is why despite our different view in political reality, we still have a very workable relationship with the West.

If this is how you want to resolve this through force, then so be it. I have nothing left to say but remember this, it won't be us that instigate this war.

No one is interested in your cherry picked history of Tibet and China or the Chinese logic of "oh some random Chinese sailor took a dump on this island some 700 years ago therefore this Island belongs to me, to hell with UNCLOS to hell with other international norms". We are not brainwashed communists to fall for such logic and reasoning.

This is not how we want to solve the problem, but we are left with no other option. It is time the everyone stood up to the bully, which brings me back to my original point of China being the bully here and not India!

 

[Shajida Khan]

Look at the map. For you to cross over to the red square spot, you would have cross into our border from the left side and that's why we told you to go back to your boarder which is to the Sikkim.

That portion is not in Indian territory, its actually a disputed territory between Bhutan and China. Indian Army is camping there in support of Bhutanese border guards. China started the trouble by trying to build roads in a region that is disputed between Bhutan and China. And no we do not need to cross into your territory to reach there. We can easily go there by our common border with Bhutan, which they share with Sikkim. Its a tri nation border.

We are merely helping our allies, just like you help Pakistan by blocking our attempts to embargo their terrorists or by promoting their interests in NSG.

The message is quite clear to China now. If you meddle in our stuff by over promoting your Iron brother, be ready for a payback in kind elsewhere.