Has Chaudhry Nisar blamed the Chinese for their own kidnapping?

[haviZsultan]

Hi, folks. This article appeared a few days ago. I want to discuss this in detail and condemn the foolish remarks of the interior minister. This is based on this article:

ISLAMABAD:

Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan was told on Monday that the Chinese couple, which was abducted from Quetta last month and was later allegedly killed, belonged to a group of Chinese people who had obtained a business visa for Pakistan but were engaged in ‘preaching.’
Lee Zing Yang, 24, and Meng Li Si, 26, were abducted from Jinnah Town of Balochistan’s provincial capital on May 24. Later, the Islamic State terrorist group claimed that it had killed the abductees. However, the claim could not be verified as yet.

In a meeting held at the Interior Ministry to review issuance of visas to the Chinese and registration of international nongovernmental organisations (INGOs), Nisar was told the couple was part of a group of Chinese citizens who obtained business visa from the Pakistani Embassy in Beijing.

Advertisement

However, instead of carrying out any business activity they went to Quetta where they were engaged in evangelical activities in the garb of learning Urdu language from a Korean national, Juan Won Seo, who owns the ARK Info Tech Institute, the minister was told.

Expressing deep concern over the unfortunate incident, Nisar said there was a need to review the process of issuance of visas to the Chinese nationals coming to Pakistan for various projects and simultaneously to maintain a databank of the Chinese nationals present in various parts of the country.

Pakistan beefs up security for Chinese officials

“This databank, to be prepared by NADRA [National Database Registration Authority], should be shared with all security agencies,” Nisar told the participants who included secretary interior, advocate general, DG IMPASS, NADRA deputy chairman and other senior officers.


The minister said it was highly unfortunate that a misuse of the terms of business visa contributed to the unfortunate incident of abduction and subsequent murder. He directed secretary interior to investigate the matter and ensure that such misuse does not occur in the future.

Taking serious note of laxity often shown by the Pakistani missions abroad during grant of visas, the minister said all Pakistani missions are bound to undertake proper scrutiny of visa application forms and must get all necessary details before exercising their power of issuance of visas to foreign nationals.

He directed that the Ministry of Foreign Affair be taken onboard and their input be included while formulating new visa policy guidelines.

The minister, however, observed that ensuring security of foreign nationals was a shared responsibility.



Police investigating Islamic State claim of Chinese citizens’ ‘killing’

“Where the government makes every effort to provide security to foreigners, the visiting foreign nationals are equally bound to abide by the terms and conditions of their visas and inform local authorities about their movements and activities in view of the security requirements, if any,” he said.

INGOs registration

The meeting also reviewed progress in registration of INGOs under the new policy framework devised by the ministry. It was informed that so far 66 INGOs had been formally registered.

Nisar directed the ministry to expedite the process of obtaining required information from the INGOs so that decision could be taken about their registration. He directed that the process of granting formal registration to INGOs should be completed by end of July.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/143372...balochistan-preachers-says-interior-ministry/

Now the parts I find objection with have been highlighted in bold. I will talk about them in detail. I am not only against Nisar but some of the idiotic comments of the comittee which was grossly insensitive and unwilling to admit that it was their fault and their failure to provide security that is leading to yet another embarrassment for Pakistan.

Let me speculate a little as to why (Read my post 7 in this thread, I have expressed similar sentiment) I think the vicious slander of our Chinese brothers in recent days, possibly on the behest of American meddling and Indian intelligence actions (there is great suspicion in ISI that this was done by RAW and this is further part of creating a rift between India and Pakistan. There was an article claiming the Chinese Premier was angry at us which turned out false) is receiving no effect because of one extremely smart comment by Nisar. The claim that the 2 were preaching (without an iota of proof for that matter). Now we know how big of a deal preaching is in Pakistan and Ahmedis and Christians have been killed because they were perceived to be preaching.

By taking up populist but conservative stands like these and saying nothing about the Mashal case, rather protecting the mullahs who did it, do these PMLN, sons of Zia Ul Haq do these people play with the masses rather than teach them the benefits of tolerance. Other reasons for being so gullible include that we are not used to foreigners, particularly people with different customs from us. People to people contact also plays a role in accepting different ways of life. We on the other hand get too few foreigners so we are isolated. Anyway I digress. Whatever the reasons Nisar has played a political master stroke which is characteristic of a PMLN politician who plays with the emotions of the people. By the way this is a two way street. As strictly communist in ideology the Chinese are also not fond of proselytization and this is also an attempt to demonize the 2 in the eyes of the Chinese government.

First of all I would like to start by casting doubts into the so called revelations of this face saving "investigation."

I will start by saying what is known of Nisar. He has always played the nationalist card but has some secret dealings with the US including revealings by wikileaks saying he has nothing against the Americans. He is against the military too and has criticized it on many occassions forgetting that his gold mine was struck during the era of Zia Ul Haq. In personality he has never admitted that he ever made a mistake, even when he suggested that Musharraf be made army chief (though Musharraf was much better than Nawaz but that is not the topic) who ousted his pal Nawaz, nor has he ever expressed shame at the failure of the government to stop militant attacks as well as properly investigating them. He is also a known PMLN tout and thug, more loyal to Nawaz than to Pakistan according to some and his interior ministry has at times victimized political opponents.

Now the "investigation." 1) Now what is the proof that there was preaching in the first place? Why would a Chinese national, most of whom are known to be agnostic, specially since the communist revolution be preaching as compared to more religious societies, and if and most likely when past proselytization has occurred on the hands of Western organizations what action had the government taken against "preaching" earlier which surely did occur in the past (This can't be the first time)? Or has the issue popped up suddenly because of some malicious intentions and personal face saving?

Second we all know of Pakistan's record with ongoing terrorism, religious violence and its state policy against proselytization which is illegal in our country by the way.

Also knowing all that is going on in Pakistan with all sorts of terrorists and government support for mullahs I doubt anyone would be stupid enough, especially among foreigners where the reputation is worse, to try and “preach” (by the way the brainless Nisar doesn’t even have the vocabulary and is using children’s words because of his JI madrassa education. The proper word is “proselytize”)

Why would anyone preach their religion in our country despite the fact that China is one of the most irreligious countries in the world. Third none of the people who know them have stated they are anything but teachers. It seems to me Nisar is trying to direct the investigation to demonize our 2 Chinese guests as much as possible to displace blame from him to them. A very short sighted and narrow minded goal to serve his own interests.

2) Now if they were proselytizing, which I doubt, what is wrong with it anyway? I mean mullahs proselytize openly in the streets, many with terrorist sympathies, collect funds for militants openly, criticize and preach in Christian neighborhoods and in Hindu areas of Sindh. Ahmedis, Hindus and Christians are not allowed to at all. This is another debate but even so does it in anyway displace the fact that they were not only kidnapped but might have been killed in our country as our guests in our trust, given visas by us? I mean where is the shame? I mean why are we blaming the victims here which according to interior ministry version of events are dead?

3) Another thing. By highlighting Jon Wun Suo the Korean national owning Arc Infotech Institute after the abduction of Chinese in the same city for being part of a proselytization process puts his life in great danger. He is giving cannon fodder to the mullahs and militants to attack him. Even so right now is not the time to highlight foreigners who despite minuscule numbers have always been targeted in greater proportions, from the Polish geologist, Greek worker for Kalash, French engineers and Chinese who have been both kidnapped and killed before. There are also directions that Chinese can't visit Quetta, at least for a while, while at the time there is a South Korean sitting there according to this very article. Now that all Chinese in Quetta, reportedly 7 nationals in the city were removed on short notice, it gives the message of an encroaching bias towards the Chinese even before CPEC has started.

Next point. I will be repeating myself so I will qoute my older post from comment 7 here:

4) Second Nisar is planning to make the interior ministry and all under them the mutawwa's of Chinese citizens in Pakistan. I mean even an idiot like Nisar can most likely see that this is going too far and in the name of security (and preaching our religion is right but another religion wrong) we are victimizing the Chinese. I will write further about this in a new thread for this discussion but the basic principle of tourism is to give your tourists/foreign residents freedom and the more you give it the more they are likely to return home happy or tell others about their positive experience, even poor country's like Azerbaijan realize this and absolute monarchies like Qatar and UAE too have very liberal rules for tourists.

However this is not only stifling their tourist freedom, like going to bars and nightclubs, but also their every move, every step is going to be monitored. Americans who have the most notorious spying operations don't have the same monitoring and are let in even possibly without visas. Raymond Davis anyone? Rehman Malik and Yousuf Raza Gillani even gave them the Nadra database which I know how it can be used. It gives foreign intelligence agencies an entire database of Pakistani citizens, including military officials and other important people. Very useful for spying operations and of course stupid because if we ask for US database of citizens we will get a slap on our face.

This is a very much Gestapo like move.

5) Next. There is no where being said that the ISIS killers will be brought to book for their wanton brutality.

It gives a message of hopelessness. Bear in mind that foreigners from China especially (And US/EU before it) since CPEC, are the focus of much attention and they are considered to be a terrorist target and thus more important in the eyes of the government than the common Pakistani citizen. There lives are worth more. Though I have criticized this it is another debate so I will leave it but my point is despite knowing how important it was to offer them security we failed to protect them and it gives a message that we are an extremely weak country and/or uncaring for the lives of our allies, enough cannon fodder for our enemies which India has used with an article of spoiled relations between us over the incident.

6) Also think about the consequences? First we allow the Chinese to be kidnapped. Then we blame them for being in Quetta which happens to be a part of Pakistan btw just because it is unsafe. (I mean do we want people to see parts of Pakistan or all of it, or at least freely choose where they want to visit. What if they were businessmen and chose to go there because they saw an investment opportunity in Quetta/Balochistan? This is not Israel where you can't visit Palestinian territories or North Korea where you can only visit Pyongyang and have to go everywhere even in that city with a guide and not talk to locals)

7) Most of all this is a classic case of shedding responsibility and blaming the victim which has become a hallmark of Pakistani politics. When PMLN/PPP governments displace peaceful protestors on the streets, they blame the protestors for blocking the road. When Mukhtara Mai was raped even Musharraf blamed her for trying to gain sympathy and western citizenship. And the people have taken it up. When Mashal Khan was murdered the people blamed him for blasphemy. Until we take responsibility for our actions our condition will not change. For Godsake think who you are voting for. Are these the people you want?

This is not about support for PTI. I don't care if you vote PTI as long as Pakistan thrives and its issues show signs of disappearing. If PTI gets voted in next and doesn't work well, kick them out. But PMLN and PPP have been around for decades, more than 30 years. And yet nothing has improved. This is about being responsible for our mistakes and it is not just about politicians but all of us.

PS. I would like to say that there were some indications in the past that Nisar would make a better foreign minister than interior minister. But this incident has revealed that Nisar is like any other. The people in government are so convinced of their superiority that they are unwilling to admit their mistakes, much less resign when a disaster has occurred. This is why Pakistan's condition cannot change without accountability and end of self interest of our rulers. The national interest has to supersede.

I would like a good debate here. I doubt even PMLN supporters can refute the irrefutable evidence here. Please tag anyone who can provide a good argument. For the next few days I am ready for some debate.

@Hell hound @El Sidd @MastanKhan @Sinopakfriend @Beast @Chinese-Dragon @DESERT FIGHTER @salarsikander @HAIDER @Moonlight @WAJsal @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Divergent1 @TOPGUN @fatman17 @nair @Slav Defence @Arsalan

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@haviZsultan , my dear Pak Friend,


Incompetence always has someone else to blame. Apathy and incompetence do more damage sometimes than betrayal.

Your good minister is perhaps a minsiter not because smashing qualities of governance or killer academic achievements... perhaps because he might have some political weight to win elections for dear Mr. Sharif.

This entire episode was totally unavoidable had the established SOPs for the Chinese nationals bene followed.. both by the Pak security aparatus and the Chinese nationals. In both cases there was conduct of both apathy and incompetences. Both parties that is.

However, instead of going professional about it the minister took the indian route of blaming others instead of taking responsibilities. Had he followed the established Sino-Pak mechanisms there would have been a very quiet investigation conducted with Chinese professionals.

Not only would such following of SOPs would have found the rootcause and modus operandi of the killers but also had helped to revise SOPs where gaps were to be found.

All I can say that your good minister has not only done disservice to the Chinese slain but also actually harmed Pak standing.

I do appologise if I have conducted myself in an offensive manner with this post.. however, I do believe as a Friend of Pak... I must sometimes must point to shortcomings and not only engage in accentuating the positive.

If your good minister had any sense of dignity he would have resigned from his post. Since, it is Pak political class we are talking about.. heavens shall fall earlier than a Pak politico doing the right thing.

I do hope, however, that Pak Security Establishment would conduct the analysis properly, preferably with Chinese side, and come up with enhanced framework to avoid such incidents as much as possible.

With CPEC coming to the conclusion of phase 1... I do expect that the opposition will do its level best to subotage it.... the killers and paid terrorists will definitely go after Chinese nationals.

Something to ponder about.

Hopefully, in no way I have offended any sensitivities.

Regards,


SPF

 

[Vapnope]

I am glad that a fellow countryman is also thinking what i was thinking. You are a gem Havi.
On topic, this is shear stupidity and incompetence of interior ministry that they could not protect the citizens in Pakistan. The absence of accountability is the reason why he comes up with such nonsense and doesn't get called out for that.

 

[El Sidd]

I can only ask you humbly and politely to curb your sensationalism.

The matter is due investigation and one can only form an opinion when the full details are out in the open.

I will discuss this once the investigation report comes out. Trust your law enforcement agencies or atleast give them a benefit of doubt till the dust clears.

Blowing things out of proportion will not help and neither staying silent but that we can decide after the report is in the public eye.

 

[haviZsultan]

@haviZsultan , my dear Pak Friend,


Incompetence always has someone else to blame. Apathy and incompetence do more damage sometimes than betrayal.

Entirely true.

Your good minister is perhaps a minsiter not because smashing qualities of governance or killer academic achievements... perhaps because he might have some political weight to win elections for dear Mr. Sharif.

This is entirely true. The people who are given roles as heads of various ministries have no experience whatsoever in these fields at all. This is the truth not only with Nawaz Sharif's government but with other governments as well. Nisar's only characteristic for being chosen interior minister was his close link with Sharif from his very early days under dictator Zia Ul Haq. Why Nawaz chose him didn't have to do with the ability to manage sensitive national security institutions, make them coordinate or building trust between the government and these institutions or even improve the basic security situation in the country. Ideally a military or police man who has managed the security of at least a small region should be considered for the role. But a role had to be given to Sharif's most prominent supporter. The process is almost entirely random. The politician rarely asks or cares or trains himself for his new ministerial task.

This entire episode was totally unavoidable had the established SOPs for the Chinese nationals bene followed.. both by the Pak security aparatus and the Chinese nationals. In both cases there was conduct of both apathy and incompetences. Both parties that is.

Yes. I agree.

However, instead of going professional about it the minister took the indian route of blaming others instead of taking responsibilities. Had he followed the established Sino-Pak mechanisms there would have been a very quiet investigation conducted with Chinese professionals.

I agree. Blaming the victim has always been the standard policy of the Indian government and Pakistani politicians. Pakistanis have begun to have serious doubts about the capacity of certain institutions like police and FIA in solving cases. I know the FIA has been infiltrated by RAW and there are serious flaws in the organization. It comes under the interior ministry. Being the principle investigation agency for the interior ministry and a little though not completely pliable to the Interior minister it has been used to victimize political opponents.

Not only would such following of SOPs would have found the rootcause and modus operandi of the killers but also had helped to revise SOPs where gaps were to be found.

True.

All I can say that your good minister has not only done disservice to the Chinese slain but also actually harmed Pak standing.

True. That is the gist of what I have written in my post. The Pakistani standing has always been damaged by these incompetent rulers. The thing is, even though I do not support the government system in China, as too authoritarian at least you have a sound foreign policy and internal peace and are following your international goals admirably. Without peace at home we will not be able to exert any influence abroad. Its a mess these politicians have left us in.

I do appologise if I have conducted myself in an offensive manner with this post.. however, I do believe as a Friend of Pak... I must sometimes must point to shortcomings and not only engage in accentuating the positive.

No apology needed.

Brother I guess you do not know me. I am much more open to criticism towards my country and its policies than a lot of people. Criticism helps us identify our mistakes and when a foreigner does it, it is double beneficial because it helps us see how some foreigners see us. I usually expect the same from foreigners and get in trouble as a result. Most people by the way don't like their country criticized even by allies. Sometimes Turks and Arabs who we have friendly relations with have been offended by me or other Pakistanis criticism. This is why I am a little reserved when talking about other countries even allies as I don't want ill-will. But without criticism how would we fix our mistakes? So keep criticizing us.

And why should we expect anyone to behave any different from us anyway when we want the same thing of protecting our people and serving our interests.

If your good minister had any sense of dignity he would have resigned from his post. Since, it is Pak political class we are talking about.. heavens shall fall earlier than a Pak politico doing the right thing.

Agreed. Once people have power it becomes more about remaining in power than doing the right thing. And that is a fallacy.

I do hope, however, that Pak Security Establishment would conduct the analysis properly, preferably with Chinese side, and come up with enhanced framework to avoid such incidents as much as possible.

Because of what I have suffered with the Indians the only security institution I trust is the ISI and even in it I want major changes, which is why despite being offered before by a colleague I still haven't been given a job though it is one of my many dreams. I won't go into details of course but I do tend to think that it isn't impossible for institutions other than the ISI to arrest/kill a criminal, terrorist or Indian agent, just unlikely, considering how deeply an institution like the FIA has been infiltrated.

With CPEC coming to the conclusion of phase 1... I do expect that the opposition will do its level best to subotage it.... the killers and paid terrorists will definitely go after Chinese nationals.

I agree. By the way though I don't doubt that Islamic State terrorists are willing to do so but only India and US have a real interest in sabotaging Sino-Pak relations. They might have been used as a tool.

Something to ponder about.

Hopefully, in no way I have offended any sensitivities.

Regards,


SPF

You have not offended me brother and most Pakistanis will appreciate this. I like debate and you have given me an opportunity to express and expand on my views. Btw I was waiting for the thread to fill up then reply, so sorry for being a little late.

 

[HAIDER]

Hi, folks. This article appeared a few days ago. I want to discuss this in detail and condemn the foolish remarks of the interior minister. This is based on this article:


https://tribune.com.pk/story/143372...balochistan-preachers-says-interior-ministry/

Now the parts I find objection with have been highlighted in bold. I will talk about them in detail. I am not only against Nisar but some of the idiotic comments of the comittee which was grossly insensitive and unwilling to admit that it was their fault and their failure to provide security that is leading to yet another embarrassment for Pakistan.

Let me speculate a little as to why (Read my post 7 in this thread, I have expressed similar sentiment) I think the vicious slander of our Chinese brothers in recent days, possibly on the behest of American meddling and Indian intelligence actions (there is great suspicion in ISI that this was done by RAW and this is further part of creating a rift between India and Pakistan. There was an article claiming the Chinese Premier was angry at us which turned out false) is receiving no effect because of one extremely smart comment by Nisar. The claim that the 2 were preaching (without an iota of proof for that matter). Now we know how big of a deal preaching is in Pakistan and Ahmedis and Christians have been killed because they were perceived to be preaching.

By taking up populist but conservative stands like these and saying nothing about the Mashal case, rather protecting the mullahs who did it, do these PMLN, sons of Zia Ul Haq do these people play with the masses rather than teach them the benefits of tolerance. Other reasons for being so gullible include that we are not used to foreigners, particularly people with different customs from us. People to people contact also plays a role in accepting different ways of life. We on the other hand get too few foreigners so we are isolated. Anyway I digress. Whatever the reasons Nisar has played a political master stroke which is characteristic of a PMLN politician who plays with the emotions of the people. By the way this is a two way street. As strictly communist in ideology the Chinese are also not fond of proselytization and this is also an attempt to demonize the 2 in the eyes of the Chinese government.

First of all I would like to start by casting doubts into the so called revelations of this face saving "investigation."

I will start by saying what is known of Nisar. He has always played the nationalist card but has some secret dealings with the US including revealings by wikileaks saying he has nothing against the Americans. He is against the military too and has criticized it on many occassions forgetting that his gold mine was struck during the era of Zia Ul Haq. In personality he has never admitted that he ever made a mistake, even when he suggested that Musharraf be made army chief (though Musharraf was much better than Nawaz but that is not the topic) who ousted his pal Nawaz, nor has he ever expressed shame at the failure of the government to stop militant attacks as well as properly investigating them. He is also a known PMLN tout and thug, more loyal to Nawaz than to Pakistan according to some and his interior ministry has at times victimized political opponents.

Now the "investigation." 1) Now what is the proof that there was preaching in the first place? Why would a Chinese national, most of whom are known to be agnostic, specially since the communist revolution be preaching as compared to more religious societies, and if and most likely when past proselytization has occurred on the hands of Western organizations what action had the government taken against "preaching" earlier which surely did occur in the past (This can't be the first time)? Or has the issue popped up suddenly because of some malicious intentions and personal face saving?

Second we all know of Pakistan's record with ongoing terrorism, religious violence and its state policy against proselytization which is illegal in our country by the way.

Also knowing all that is going on in Pakistan with all sorts of terrorists and government support for mullahs I doubt anyone would be stupid enough, especially among foreigners where the reputation is worse, to try and “preach” (by the way the brainless Nisar doesn’t even have the vocabulary and is using children’s words because of his JI madrassa education. The proper word is “proselytize”)

Why would anyone preach their religion in our country despite the fact that China is one of the most irreligious countries in the world. Third none of the people who know them have stated they are anything but teachers. It seems to me Nisar is trying to direct the investigation to demonize our 2 Chinese guests as much as possible to displace blame from him to them. A very short sighted and narrow minded goal to serve his own interests.

2) Now if they were proselytizing, which I doubt, what is wrong with it anyway? I mean mullahs proselytize openly in the streets, many with terrorist sympathies, collect funds for militants openly, criticize and preach in Christian neighborhoods and in Hindu areas of Sindh. Ahmedis, Hindus and Christians are not allowed to at all. This is another debate but even so does it in anyway displace the fact that they were not only kidnapped but might have been killed in our country as our guests in our trust, given visas by us? I mean where is the shame? I mean why are we blaming the victims here which according to interior ministry version of events are dead?

3) Another thing. By highlighting Jon Wun Suo the Korean national owning Arc Infotech Institute after the abduction of Chinese in the same city for being part of a proselytization process puts his life in great danger. He is giving cannon fodder to the mullahs and militants to attack him. Even so right now is not the time to highlight foreigners who despite minuscule numbers have always been targeted in greater proportions, from the Polish geologist, Greek worker for Kalash, French engineers and Chinese who have been both kidnapped and killed before. There are also directions that Chinese can't visit Quetta, at least for a while, while at the time there is a South Korean sitting there according to this very article. Now that all Chinese in Quetta, reportedly 7 nationals in the city were removed on short notice, it gives the message of an encroaching bias towards the Chinese even before CPEC has started.

Next point. I will be repeating myself so I will qoute my older post from comment 7 here:

4) Second Nisar is planning to make the interior ministry and all under them the mutawwa's of Chinese citizens in Pakistan. I mean even an idiot like Nisar can most likely see that this is going too far and in the name of security (and preaching our religion is right but another religion wrong) we are victimizing the Chinese. I will write further about this in a new thread for this discussion but the basic principle of tourism is to give your tourists/foreign residents freedom and the more you give it the more they are likely to return home happy or tell others about their positive experience, even poor country's like Azerbaijan realize this and absolute monarchies like Qatar and UAE too have very liberal rules for tourists.

However this is not only stifling their tourist freedom, like going to bars and nightclubs, but also their every move, every step is going to be monitored. Americans who have the most notorious spying operations don't have the same monitoring and are let in even possibly without visas. Raymond Davis anyone? Rehman Malik and Yousuf Raza Gillani even gave them the Nadra database which I know how it can be used. It gives foreign intelligence agencies an entire database of Pakistani citizens, including military officials and other important people. Very useful for spying operations and of course stupid because if we ask for US database of citizens we will get a slap on our face.

This is a very much Gestapo like move.

5) Next. There is no where being said that the ISIS killers will be brought to book for their wanton brutality.

It gives a message of hopelessness. Bear in mind that foreigners from China especially (And US/EU before it) since CPEC, are the focus of much attention and they are considered to be a terrorist target and thus more important in the eyes of the government than the common Pakistani citizen. There lives are worth more. Though I have criticized this it is another debate so I will leave it but my point is despite knowing how important it was to offer them security we failed to protect them and it gives a message that we are an extremely weak country and/or uncaring for the lives of our allies, enough cannon fodder for our enemies which India has used with an article of spoiled relations between us over the incident.

6) Also think about the consequences? First we allow the Chinese to be kidnapped. Then we blame them for being in Quetta which happens to be a part of Pakistan btw just because it is unsafe. (I mean do we want people to see parts of Pakistan or all of it, or at least freely choose where they want to visit. What if they were businessmen and chose to go there because they saw an investment opportunity in Quetta/Balochistan? This is not Israel where you can't visit Palestinian territories or North Korea where you can only visit Pyongyang and have to go everywhere even in that city with a guide and not talk to locals)

7) Most of all this is a classic case of shedding responsibility and blaming the victim which has become a hallmark of Pakistani politics. When PMLN/PPP governments displace peaceful protestors on the streets, they blame the protestors for blocking the road. When Mukhtara Mai was raped even Musharraf blamed her for trying to gain sympathy and western citizenship. And the people have taken it up. When Mashal Khan was murdered the people blamed him for blasphemy. Until we take responsibility for our actions our condition will not change. For Godsake think who you are voting for. Are these the people you want?

This is not about support for PTI. I don't care if you vote PTI as long as Pakistan thrives and its issues show signs of disappearing. If PTI gets voted in next and doesn't work well, kick them out. But PMLN and PPP have been around for decades, more than 30 years. And yet nothing has improved. This is about being responsible for our mistakes and it is not just about politicians but all of us.

PS. I would like to say that there were some indications in the past that Nisar would make a better foreign minister than interior minister. But this incident has revealed that Nisar is like any other. The people in government are so convinced of their superiority that they are unwilling to admit their mistakes, much less resign when a disaster has occurred. This is why Pakistan's condition cannot change without accountability and end of self interest of our rulers. The national interest has to supersede.

I would like a good debate here. I doubt even PMLN supporters can refute the irrefutable evidence here. Please tag anyone who can provide a good argument. For the next few days I am ready for some debate.

@Hell hound @El Sidd @MastanKhan @Sinopakfriend @Beast @Chinese-Dragon @DESERT FIGHTER @salarsikander @HAIDER @Moonlight @WAJsal @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Divergent1 @TOPGUN @fatman17 @nair @Slav Defence @Arsalan

I been saying since last many month , Interior minister is now joining the hands of hardcore religious clan. And majority of Pakistani channels condemn his statement and were shocked. How a state IM pass such a irresponsible statement. It seems he is getting information from street hackers.

 

[salarsikander]

Bro thank you so much for tagging me and having a faith in me .

@haviZsultan brilliant analysis. But for now, I will reserve my judgement when investigations are complete. Though it did strike me odd as why a Chinese would preach. Plz. If possible keep me posted.

 

[SQ8]

PML have strong ties to extremes groups in rural Punjab. However, this could be either a genuine case of visa misuse or just a coverup of a botched rescue and our inability to provide protection to Chinese citizens working here

 

[haviZsultan]

I can only ask you humbly and politely to curb your sensationalism.

The matter is due investigation and one can only form an opinion when the full details are out in the open.

I will discuss this once the investigation report comes out. Trust your law enforcement agencies or atleast give them a benefit of doubt till the dust clears.
a
Blowing things out of proportion will not help and neither staying silent but that we can decide after the report is in the public eye.

First of all these reports are not made public are they? Even if they are being investigated in and outside the interior ministry. Ever.
Like the Bhutto assassination? How many agencies were investigating it and we got only speculation.

Has a detailed report been made available to the public over any of the major bombings. Has the APS bombing report been made public?

https://www.dawn.com/news/1230064

Second, why don't we try to learn something from the system of the west? There the leaders are always held in scrutiny by the public. They are always criticized by their opponents and often by their supporters as well. Why in Pakistan are we so lacking in objectivity? Criticism has its benefits that we need to appreciate. I am not criticizing for sensationalism but to make the country better.

Third, this is not blowing things out of proportion. What you are showing is our standardized response, affected mostly by years of terrorist violence on the psyche that this is normal. You are treating a terrorist attack as normal and also an older problem, the behavior or incompetence, rather of the government as normal too. When we don't try for change and point out our leaders mistakes how can we ever attempt to solve our problems? It will continue the same way.

Fourth, this might be an ongoing investigation but even you can probably see the fallacies in Chaudhry Nisar's comments. I mean how many times in this meeting have the Chinese been blamed for their own possible deaths or others. First they were blamed for preaching, as if this justifies it. Second the immigration authorities were blamed. Can Chaudhry Nisar ever take responsibility?

Fifth, the ISI and MI are unlikely to have been present at the meeting. At least it doesn't say so in the article. Anyway these institutions do not come under the Interior ministry meaning this is mostly an FIA investigation with further reliance on the police mostly.

Don't ask me what disaster I have had to suffer with these FIA officials. I respect the FC and Rangers though and their efforts against terrorism have been better. But from what I have seen FIA is a disaster of an institution. Some of its officers are corrupt, it is infiltrated by RAW, it is too easily influenced by the USA and its abilities extremely weak. Clearly not all FIA is surely like this but its my personal experience with it. Of course this is a controversial statement but you would think the same thing if you had gone through what I went through. The onus of course is not on the FIA to prove the victimized party wrong but for the victimized party to demand a proper investigation and through it justice.

 

[El Sidd]

First of all these reports are not made public are they? Even if they are being investigated in and outside the interior ministry. Ever.
Like the Bhutto assassination? How many agencies were investigating it and we got only speculation.

Has a detailed report been made available to the public over any of the major bombings. Has the APS bombing report been made public?

https://www.dawn.com/news/1230064

Second, why don't we try to learn something from the system of the west? There the leaders are always held in scrutiny by the public. They are always criticized by their opponents and often by their supporters as well. Why in Pakistan are we so lacking in objectivity? Criticism has its benefits that we need to appreciate. I am not criticizing for sensationalism but to make the country better.

Third, this is not blowing things out of proportion. What you are showing is our standardized response, affected mostly by years of terrorist violence on the psyche that this is normal. You are treating a terrorist attack as normal and also an older problem, the behavior or incompetence, rather of the government as normal too. When we don't try for change and point out our leaders mistakes how can we ever attempt to solve our problems? It will continue the same way.

Fourth, this might be an ongoing investigation but even you can probably see the fallacies in Chaudhry Nisar's comments. I mean how many times in this meeting have the Chinese been blamed for their own possible deaths or others. First they were blamed for preaching, as if this justifies it. Second the immigration authorities were blamed. Can Chaudhry Nisar ever take responsibility?

Fifth, the ISI and MI are unlikely to have been present at the meeting. At least it doesn't say so in the article. Anyway these institutions do not come under the Interior ministry meaning this is mostly an FIA investigation with further reliance on the police mostly.

Don't ask me what disaster I have had to suffer with these FIA officials. I respect the FC and Rangers though and their efforts against terrorism have been better. But from what I have seen FIA is a disaster of an institution. Some of its officers are corrupt, it is infiltrated by RAW, it is too easily influenced by the USA and its abilities extremely weak. Clearly not all FIA is surely like this but its my personal experience with it. Of course this is a controversial statement but you would think the same thing if you had gone through what I went through. The onus of course is not on the FIA to prove the victimized party wrong but for the victimized party to demand a proper investigation and through it justice.

Patience is still a virtue.

Sensationalism will lead to nothing. Why can't you wait for the report like the million other normal folks.

 

[HAIDER]

PML have strong ties to extremes groups in rural Punjab. However, this could be either a genuine case of visa misuse or just a coverup of a botched rescue and our inability to provide protection to Chinese citizens working here

Usually any foreign group of workers comes to Baluchistan , PA and other agencies give them security briefing. If this couple didn't follow the advised protocol, then its different story ... hope they are alive, so this hope we might get true story . Baluchistan is even insecure of Baluchis, then rest are security risk anyway ...