Happy Hanukkah from Pakistan to Jewish people around the world

[Solomon2]

Why all this bitterness during the festival of lights.

Because in context the holiday greeting becomes, "Have a good holiday while my country supports those who wish to eliminate you and your people."

Arafat was aware that was his message while you probably didn't realize it.

 

[W.11]

A nice thought, but the context is bitter. There are no Jews left in Pakistan; none free to worship openly, at any rate. Nor is there any movement to right wrongs committed by Pakistanis and their government against the community, or to make Jews in Pakistan feel welcome.

It's the sort of "good wishes" that only affects the air and is empty in deed, so it ends the moment after it is uttered.

It reminds me - though I'm pretty sure the OP is not that kind of person - of Yassir Arafat in 2002 wishing Israelis a happy Passover even as he sent terror bombers into Israeli cities to kill dozens of Israeli Jews: link

all pakistani jews immigrated to zionist state?

every body is free to worship in pakistan, why jews must be the only exception?

btw according to the last election there were 809 jew voters

Minorities’ votes may decide fate of 96 constituencies - DAWN.COM

 

[Slav Defence]

I hope those aren't the only reasons though, there's a lot we Pakistanis have to learn from secular nations in the West.

What you've said is great from an Islamic perspective, but why shouldn't it be true, for the sake of respecting other people's religion? Whatever they may be.

jungibaaz,it is our fault,if we have failed to understand Quran,and we have misinterpreted it-Allah has explained characterstics,the mistakes they have made in past,and we are instructed to sustain our behaviour-Surah namal,Surah Qasas,Surah bani Israel,Surah Baqra...the last verse of Surah Baqra is specifically a kind promise that Allah is taking from us,that we will believe in all books,prophets and we will not differentiate between them.
My friend,we have failed to understand of what is written in Quran,we have mis-interpreted it,that is why we are going astray.
Where as far as west is concerned,they are also not 'holy cows' we all are evident that how 'female covering' was banned in some of western countries,so where is now their 'freedom of expression' or 'freedom of speech'so even western countries cannot sustain their behaviour towards muslims either.
At this point,a question arises here that what is the key factor of this 'fog' due to which we are unable to see each other clearly and we have lost patience to listen each other,and we don't respect each other?the factors are as follows:
-We have failed to understand our own religion.
-West have created 'offensive policies' to maintain their power and to prevent it from shifting to other regions.
-Both sides are going on extreme,one gets too conservative while other one is getting too free to speak anything,this includes such statements too which can be included as 'offensive' by other group.
---------------------------------------
Thus best solution I suggest both groups is to re-analyse their policies,idelogies,concept,interpretation of religion,and hypothesis they have made,and diagnose the lapses within.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Because in context the holiday greeting becomes, "Have a good holiday while my country supports those who wish to eliminate you and your people."
.

Again moaning and groaning on a good holiday. Oh hoho hoo I didn't get to eat my favorite dish. oh ho ho ho. cry cry cry

FYI. You sound more and more like Tali-barbarians who would bring in politics and fanaticism in every damn thing.

Don't you know that Pakistan has never supported or said anything about eliminating jews or Israel. Extremists do, but then I have me quiet a few Israelis with very similar views.

Are you one of them extremists too? Hope not!

Arafat was aware that was his message while you probably didn't realize it.

No need to bring Palistine in this thread. Why are you hell bent on doing so?

 

[W.11]

but then, what can one say, instead of propagating peace, some jews are hell bent on spreading hate? can you win hearts by spreading hate, i dont think so

https://twitter.com/x/status/406525905528320000

there are sikh pakistani soldiers, why is he eager to fight for a IDF?

 

[FaujHistorian]

but then, what can one say, instead of propagating peace, some jews are hell bent on spreading hate? can you win hearts by spreading hate, i dont think so

https://twitter.com/x/status/406525905528320000

Great.

Just continue spreading the message.

Remember one thing. We have a lot of work to do to spread the message that Pakistan is a tolerant place.

A hell of lot of work. dare I say.


In 65+ years we have one Sikh officer (he has graduated BTW).

There are reasons for that. But 1 Sikh officer from the land of their guru is not that we start dancing around.

We need more work, more Sikh officers in our army.

, why is he eager to fight for a IDF?

Well if a Pakistani is settled in Israel, he will be loyal citizen and thus fight alongside other Israelis in IDF.

similarly


if a Pakistani is settled in USA or UK, he will be loyal citizen and thus fight alongside other American or British soldiers.

Just a simple thingy.

 

[Solomon2]

Again moaning and groaning...

It's not unusual for Orthodox Jews to spend an hour or so recalling the sobering words of Ecclesiastes during joyous holidays.

Don't you know that Pakistan has never supported or said anything about eliminating jews or Israel. Extremists do -

Actions matter. Jews in Pakistan gone or almost all gone. No synagogues. No safety unless you work for the Pakistani government. Lots of unopposed vocal and political support for people and governments who seek to eliminate Israel and its Jewish populace.

When the Napoleon realized that the demeaning status of Jews demeaned the French themselves and was a vestige of Roman Church control he made the Jews into French citizens. When the Germans determined that the Holocaust was a mistake and a stain they offered reparations. When some Norwegians realized that the Oslo Accords had become a travesty they sent a delegation to Israel to publicly apologize. Sadat convinced Israelis that he was genuinely interested in pursuing lasting peace by going to Jerusalem. Have you thought about what you could do, Fauji?

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

inn ko tou khuda na khush kar saka , tum kay khush karo gai , meray bhai!

 

[pakdefender]

Because in context the holiday greeting becomes, "Have a good holiday while my country supports those who wish to eliminate you and your people."

Arafat was aware that was his message while you probably didn't realize it.

lets tun your argument on its head , don't jews pray on Hanukah and almost every jewish religous ocassion for the restoration of the temple of Solomon ? For that to happen , the jews want to martyr Qibla-e-Awal , the Al-Aqsa mosque.

So while people are wishing you happy hanukkah , you are praying and working toward desecration and destruction of one of the most sacred places in Islam.

 

[Solomon2]

lets tun your argument on its head , don't jews pray on Hanukah and almost every jewish religous ocassion for the restoration of the temple of Solomon ?

Yes, we do.

For that to happen , the jews want to martyr Qibla-e-Awal , the Al-Aqsa mosque.

Not so. I'm sorry you can't see the difference.

you are praying and working toward desecration and destruction of -

If you look at the "Palestine in pictures" thread you'll see for yourself that the Dome of the Rock has never looked better than it is now with Jerusalem under Israeli rule and the Temple Mount administered by the Jerusalem Islamic waqf.

 

[Solomon2]

Don't you know that Pakistan has never supported or said anything about eliminating jews or Israel.

Say hello to the Holtzbergs!

Here's their wedding:

And here's their funeral:

Who are the Holtzbergs? Maybe you once knew the answer? Rabbi Holtzberg and wife were the hosts of Chabad's Nariman House in Mumbai. On November 26, 2008, they were deliberately sought out and slain with torture or mutilation by terrorists trained by the Pakistani military, supplied by Pakistani "agencies", and controlled from Pakistan.

It wasn't enough to eliminate the Jews from public view in Pakistan; evil hands had to reach out to eliminate Jews elsewhere, too.

How many Pakistanis will declare that their countrymen who plotted the Holtzbergs' demise should be prosecuted as criminals and will work to make that a reality?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Say hello to the Holtzbergs!

Here's their wedding:

And here's their funeral:

Who are the Holtzbergs? Maybe you once knew the answer? Rabbi Holtzberg and wife were the hosts of Chabad's Nariman House in Mumbai. On November 26, 2008, they were deliberately sought out and slain with torture or mutilation by terrorists trained by the Pakistani military, supplied by Pakistani "agencies", and controlled from Pakistan.

It wasn't enough to eliminate the Jews from public view in Pakistan; evil hands had to reach out to eliminate Jews elsewhere, too.

How many Pakistanis will declare that their countrymen who plotted the Holtzbergs' demise should be prosecuted as criminals and will work to make that a reality?

This is precisely what Tali-barbarians wanted to do.

And you are playing straight into their hands. With strong emotional scenes of death and destruction, who in their mind could resist the temptation to simply accuse the whole of Pakistan.


I expected better than that Dear Solomon. A lot better than simply playing straight into the hands of those who tried to murder an innocent girl Malala, and they murdered a middle of the road governor of Punjab state/province.

Choice is yours dear.

It is yours.

you choose to side with Tali-barbarians as the sole representatives of Pakistan.

or perhaps with the silent majority who is utterly against the Islamism.


Thank you

lets tun your argument on its head , don't jews pray on Hanukah and almost every jewish religous ocassion for the restoration of the temple of Solomon ? For that to happen , the jews want to martyr Qibla-e-Awal , the Al-Aqsa mosque.

So while people are wishing you happy hanukkah , you are praying and working toward desecration and destruction of one of the most sacred places in Islam.

Yaara Defender of Pakistan.


Please remember, that Israel is not planning to demolish Masjid Aqsa just to build some temple.

Still they have better record than Muslims (temples churches in Pak, and Bamyan Buddha in Afgh) and Indians (Babri) when it comes to protecting religious sites built 100s of years ago.


peace

 

[Solomon2]

This is precisely what Tali-barbarians wanted to do. And you are playing straight into their hands. With strong emotional scenes of death and destruction, who in their mind could resist the temptation to simply accuse the whole of Pakistan.

The Taliban wanted to prosecute the plotters of 26/11?

Note I did not accuse "the whole of Pakistan" of committing Jew-murder.

But I do accuse Pakistanis as a nation of condoning it!

Religious Jews are supposed to try to follow 613 commandments, yet we expect a society of righteous gentiles to follow only seven. One of these is the prohibition against murder. Another is the establishment of courts for effective legal recourse. Where these Jews are concerned, Pakistan fails both tests.

A lot better than simply playing straight into the hands of those who tried to murder an innocent girl Malala, and they murdered a middle of the road governor of Punjab state/province.

Have you tried confronting those who honored the killer of Governor Taseer? Do you mean the Taliban are so powerful that you fear their retribution if you prosecute jew-killers, rather than being on guard and considering the trial an opportunity to flush them out?

 

[FaujHistorian]

The Taliban wanted to prosecute the plotters of 26/11?

Note I did not accuse "the whole of Pakistan" of committing Jew-murder.

But I do accuse Pakistanis as a nation of condoning it!

Religious Jews are supposed to try to follow 613 commandments, yet we expect a society of righteous gentiles to follow only seven. One of these is the prohibition against murder. Another is the establishment of courts for effective legal recourse. Where these Jews are concerned, Pakistan fails both tests.

Have you tried confronting those who honored the killer of Governor Taseer? Do you mean the Taliban are so powerful that you fear their retribution if you prosecute jew-killers, rather than being on guard and considering the trial an opportunity to flush them out?

Noone condones it.

At least not the large sections of the society.

But we are going through Islamist civil war in the region. I am sure you can look at the map and see a bit our neighborhood. Hopefully.

And every institution is stretched to the limit.

It is like living in Israel next to Ghaza border. Yes one can have the finest police, courts, and military in the world.

But the citizens live in constant fear. People ordinary or high officials die with pathetic regularity.


I don't think you know that we have 1000 times the Gazha border in the form of Afghanistan with 40 years long war.

Just keep this context in your mind before accusing courts or police or army in Pakistan.


thank you






p.s. I hate to see Happy Hanukkah thread turned into political discussion by none other than an American of Jewish faith. Please open a new thread if you want to discuss politics or religious fanaticism.

While some Islamists tried to flame this thread, they failed. But an American Jewish person keeping the flames alive in the thread.

How odd!

 

[RescueRanger]

But I do accuse Pakistanis as a nation of condoning it!

So do Jewish people

when all of them are blamed for bad stuff going on between Israel and Palestinians.

Fauji bahi, you know i respect you for being a balanced individual, so why assume i blame the jews for anything, if anything i have a deep respect for the Jewish people, i have been to Auschwitz during my university years and studied about the holocaust at the british library holocaust recordings (because one of my family members great grand chacha was sent to Italy as part of RIASC 4 Ind Div Troop Transport Coy.

However i do hold great exception to people like Solomon and their "holier than thou" attitude, trust me brother. Nothing you do or say, no matter how well intentioned will please people like Solomon who only wish to view the world through their own warped prism.