Hangor Class Submarine Project | Updates & Discussions

[The Accountant]

Any thing worth having is expensive. You have to start from some where. For a nation of 220 million souls to industrialise & progress, a good metallurgy base is a must. There is all sorts of benefits in having that capability.
And you are probably more aware of that than I am.

Buddy lets be realistic, our steel industry is not capable to use in cars and u r talking about ship grade steel.

First we should start making autcar grade steel

 

[Kharral]

Buddy lets be realistic, our steel industry is not capable to use in cars and u r talking about ship grade steel.

First we should start making autcar grade steel

Read the posts again.

 

[The Accountant]

Read the posts again.

buddy you are asking to build capacity of high grade steel whereas we should start with much lower level first if you agree then we are on same page

 

[Kharral]

buddy you are asking to build capacity of high grade steel whereas we should start with much lower level first if you agree then we are on same page

Don’t you think it’s only natural that if we endeavour for high grade steel/metals we would reap low hanging fruits on the way ?

 

[Thorough Pro]

What are "long hanging fruits"?

Why would any industry produce anything for which there is no demand in the country? everything that is produced is based on commercial viability, Navy buys three subs after 30 years, who would invest in making anything for such tiny consumption?

Don’t you think it’s only natural that if we endeavour for high grade steel/metals we would reap long hanging fruits on the way ?

 

[Kharral]

What are "long hanging fruits"?

Why would any industry produce anything for which there is no demand in the country? everything that is produced is based on commercial viability, Navy buys three subs after 30 years, who would invest in making anything for such tiny consumption?

& You believe high strength steel/metals are only used for submarines and nothing else ?

'Low hanging fruits' implies Steels/Metals that are relatively easier to produce compared to something required for Submarines which also have a larger commercial value & usage. For example aluminium & steels for Automotive industry, Small arms, Heavy Machinery, Construction industry ( I know we are already manufacturing steel for construction industry but it could be further improved & expanded )

 

[The Accountant]

Don’t you think it’s only natural that if we endeavour for high grade steel/metals we would reap low hanging fruits on the way ?

No its not. Its the other way around. This is all about economics and demand and supply. These type of industries are very specific and you cannot run them below a certain level.
Do you know the cost of restarting furnance of Pakistan steel run into tens of millions and hence without production they keep it on running for months as to keep it running was cheaper than to restart but eventually they had to close it as they couldnt pay gas bills.

You can only produce material which has sufficient demand. A specialized grade steel requirement of Pakistan is not enough to justify a plant of own. However, we can start focusing on more generic products which we are currently importing from outside Pakistan like sheets coils etc. Once we achieve that and we start manufacture steel for cars, and house hold items then we can move to next stage where the existing plant can build add some additional quantities of very high grade steel.

Furthermore, we also need skilled workforce.

What you are suggesting is without working on motor cycle engine you start working on rocket engine. On a small level its possible as you require only highly qualified individuals but for a big commercial organization you need large number of skilled workforce therefore step by step approach is necessary and long lasting.

The China we see today started this development in 70s and only got at such level in 20th century. There is no shortcut for long lasting prosperity

 

[Thorough Pro]

What I think is irrelevant, Let's talk facts.

Give me some examples of the Pakistani industries that use special high strength steel, what is their annual consumption and where do they import it from?

& You believe high strength steel/metals are only used for submarines and nothing else ?

'Low hanging fruits' implies Steels/Metals that are relatively easier to produce compared to something required for Submarines which also have a larger commercial value & usage. For example aluminium & steels for Automotive industry, Small arms, Heavy Machinery, Construction industry ( I know we are already manufacturing steel for construction industry but it could be further improved & expanded )

 

[Ultima Thule]

What I think is irrelevant, Let's talk facts.

Give me some examples of the Pakistani industries that use special high strength steel, what is their annual consumption and where do they import it from?

May be PAC wanna use it, if we are not trying to expand our industrial capabilities then and relying on foreign imports like high strength steel how can we improve our economy and country sir

 

[The Accountant]

What I think is irrelevant, Let's talk facts.

Give me some examples of the Pakistani industries that use special high strength steel, what is their annual consumption and where do they import it from?

He has no idea what he is talking about.

May be PAC wanna use it, if we are not trying to expand our industrial capabilities then and relying on foreign imports like high strength steel how can we improve our economy and country sir

Bro you have to analyze demand to make products. If you want to industrialize then work on industries where you have some local demand or you have some kind of edge. For example rather than working on steel industry its much effecient to work on copper industry due to huge copper deposits.

Basic of economics. You invest only on those product where you have demand. So for highly industrial we dont have demand but we have copper ore due to which we can establish a full supply chain of copper products cheaper than other countries so its better to work on copper industry rather than steel industry as youc an compete globally in copper industry whereas steel produce from plants running at lower capacity will be expensive and hence will be in losses.

 

[Thorough Pro]

PAC? Of course, their next fighter would be made with 12 soot solid high strength stainless steel plates

May be PAC wanna use it, if we are not trying to expand our industrial capabilities then and relying on foreign imports like high strength steel how can we improve our economy and country sir

That's the common disease in Pakistan, the ones who don't know what they are talking about, scream the loudest.

He has no idea what he is talking about.


Bro you have to analyze demand to make products. If you want to industrialize then work on industries where you have some local demand or you have some kind of edge. For example rather than working on steel industry its much effecient to work on copper industry due to huge copper deposits.

Basic of economics. You invest only on those product where you have demand. So for highly industrial we dont have demand but we have copper ore due to which we can establish a full supply chain of copper products cheaper than other countries so its better to work on copper industry rather than steel industry as youc an compete globally in copper industry whereas steel produce from plants running at lower capacity will be expensive and hence will be in losses.

 

[Ultima Thule]

PAC? Of course, their next fighter would be made with 12 soot solid high strength stainless steel plates
AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR STUPID LOGICS SIR WHY WE INITIATE PROJECTS LIKE AGOSTA 90B/F22P/AND NOW TYPE 54A/HANGORE CLASS SUBMARINES I KNOW A DEMAND AND SUPPLY RULES BUT IF WE GET THESE TYPE OF TECH WITH TOT DEMAND WILL APPEAR IN FUTURE RELYING ON FOREIGN COUNTRY IS NOT GOOD THING SIR THAT'S HOW WE CAN IMPROVE OUR ECONOMY AND COUNTRY SIR


That's the common disease in Pakistan, the ones who don't know what they are talking about, scream the loudest.

 

[The Accountant]

PAC? Of course, their next fighter would be made with 12 soot solid high strength stainless steel plates




That's the common disease in Pakistan, the ones who don't know what they are talking about, scream the loudest.

12 soot ... loolzzzz

 

[Ultima Thule]

PAC? Of course, their next fighter would be made with 12 soot solid high strength stainless steel plates




That's the common disease in Pakistan, the ones who don't know what they are talking about, scream the loudest.

YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE FUTURE PERSPECTIVE SIR WE BUILD CAN BUILD OUR OWN SUBS/NAVAL SHIPS/INDUSTRIAL MACHINES/MANUFACTURING MACHINES BY OUR OWN THAT'S CALLED SELF RESILIENCE AND ALL REDEVELOPING COUNTRIES ARE LOOKING FOR IT SIR

 

[War Historian]

YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE FUTURE PERSPECTIVE SIR WE BUILD CAN BUILD OUR OWN SUBS/NAVAL SHIPS/INDUSTRIAL MACHINES/MANUFACTURING MACHINES BY OUR OWN THAT'S CALLED SELF RESILIENCE AND ALL REDEVELOPING COUNTRIES ARE LOOKING FOR IT SIR

Bro no one here for country's self reliance. In our defence department the only thing, import every thing and make mall for after retirement plans.
From new jets, sub, frigates, corvette, marine services, MBT , new upgrading logistic vehicles, each and every thing using engines, electronics, metals of special grade and characteristics needed. But we will only import all these items. And put the " Made in Pakistan " sticker on it, and present in front on nation and international forums to make ourselves continue fool.
That's all case closed.