Hangor Class Submarine Project | Updates & Discussions

[khanasifm]

At gawadar expo

 

[MastanKhan]

That is why I said- try to get technology transfer (with blueprints and codes) and then see. You are allowed to reverse engineer arms sold to you but getting the blueprint? That is wet dreams

Hi,

There are different levels of technology transfer---. You can only use those levels---from which you can reproduce successfully---.

The thought process of pakistan versus india in TOT is different---. So---what is important to india---may not be important to pakistan---.

 

[ziaulislam]

If China gives technology, then China will be considered as aggressor nation. Being nuclear armed is not the game changer. Nuclear technology is 1940s technology. Also, it is not all powerful. Submarine technology is critical and involves stealth and other aspects.

Obviously for you it is acceptable that China risks itself for Pakistan. But that calls for greater question - will chinacbe ready to face india in case of india pakistan war? Moreover, India can easily take out pakistan even before it gets ToT.

China can give technology but at its own peril. We have seen that countries prefer to give arms instead of technology as aids. So, you may be expecting too much.



India did not borrow any critical defence technology from Russia. Russia did not give seekers for brahmos or nuclear submarine reactor/propulsion, SAM technology etc. Russia gave SU30 technology (except engine).

what do you mean if ?
its well known that Chinese are doing everything already!

what random state, no matter how much tech you give to Taiwan they have better sources(uncle sam) what tech you can give them which uncle SAM cant..i mean really..india doesnt produce a single tech that taiwan cant make it her self!

if china thinks Taiwan is going nuclear or strategic, it will simply immediate attack take it over, will take them couple of days at bestly

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi at the moment all Chinese war games are Taiwan centric specially their airforce
J20 with j10/j16 so yea I think in near future might not be soon but they will
Decide about to get Taiwan back by on or the other
Thank you

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi at the moment all Chinese war games are Taiwan centric specially their airforce
J20 with j10/j16 so yea I think in near future might not be soon but they will
Decide about to get Taiwan back by on or the other
Thank you

Hi,

Younger Taiwanese are finding jobs in mainland china---so pretty soon---once the influence of older Taiwanese wears off---Taiwan would re-join mainland china.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Taiwan has nowhere to go but to go back to mainland china---.

It is the older generation that is stuck up in its old thinking---. Times have changed---mainland china has changed---the future and welfare of both the china's depend on each other---specially that of Taiwan---.

There is no justification for Taiwan to start or have a war with mainland china---there is no reason or rhyme to it---.

As the younger generation finds more and more jobs in the mainland---and will become dependent on the economy of the mainland---the ideology in Taiwan would change.

 

[war&peace]

The deal was signed in this manner is due to ' VERY ' large kickbacks---.

Sir nothing gets done in Pakistan without huge kickbacks. It is a norm and considered halal by both the civilian and the military guardians of the country. No harm in getting a nice hefty chunk from the pie before bidding farewell to their illustrious careers.

 

[Inception-06]

View attachment 454532

At gawadar expo

@Quwa you have seen that picture? Might be interesting for your analyses?

 

[syed zia Hassan]

Sir very nice and complete information you share nice work.... Pakistan Navy have huge experience on Agosta-class submarine from France ..I dont known Chinese submarine technology is better then French technology it take time . and need today and deal for the next 10 years .. again Fire Arrow from T-90 Tank. PNS dockyard performance not bed by the way,, is it possible to change our foreign policy of pakistan to deal Weapons. why not we deal along with technology to create jobs or get more better results. Please think about it ..when We stand up with own legs when ?

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Sir very nice and complete information you share nice work.... Pakistan Navy have huge experience on Agosta-class submarine from France ..I dont known Chinese submarine technology is better then French technology it take time . and need today and deal for the next 10 years .. again Fire Arrow from T-90 Tank. PNS dockyard performance not bed by the way,, is it possible to change our foreign policy of pakistan to deal Weapons. why not we deal along with technology to create jobs or get more better results. Please think about it ..when We stand up with own legs when ?

Everyone demands for technology but it is rarely given. Why would someone give away the technology and thereby a customer? The seller always wants to have customers who buy regularly, not one-off purchases

 

[Safriz]

@Quwa you have seen that picture? Might be interesting for your analyses?

View attachment 461040

does not seem to have any VLS

 

[The-Hack]

The Type-039/041 "Yuan" class conventional submarine, likely the basis for the export-centric S20. Photo credit: Wikipedia
Bilal Khan -
PAKISTAN MINISTRY OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION CONFIRMS SUBMARINE CONTRACT
The Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) confirmed in its 2014-2015 report that a contract to construct new generation submarines for the Pakistan Navy was signed in April 2015. While no specific timelines were given (in regards to production and delivery), the MoDP’s report is genuine confirmation that the long-awaited program is assuredly in the procurement pipeline.

Pakistan began negotiating with China for new submarines in 2011, when at the time it was reported that the Pakistan Navy was interested in six ships powered by air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems. In April 2015, the Government of Pakistan formally approved the purchase of eight Chinese AIP submarines, and in July 2015 it was reported that the contract had been forwarded to Beijing, which would then greenlight Pakistan’s proposed financing arrangements.

In April 2016, the Pakistan Navy’s Commander of Logistics, Rear Admiral Syed Imdad Imam Jafri, praised Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW) for winning a contract to produce four of the eight AIP submarines. In fact, Rear Admiral Jafri’s statements not only confirmed that the submarine deal was live, but that Pakistan was still committed to procuring AIP-equipped submarines. This is an important aspect, considering the tactical advantages borne by AIP systems, as discussed in an earlier Quwa article:

AIP technology allows SSKs to operate underwater without snorkeling for much longer periods of time, potentially as long as multiple weeks. In addition, AIP technology helps in keeping the submarine quiet, thus reducing its acoustic signature, a key advantage in subsurface combat where sound (i.e. acoustics) is the main method of detection and engagement. These advantages are more profound in the South Asian maritime theatre where there is close proximity between the two powers. For Pakistan, the amount of time a submarine can remain undetected will matter more than how far it can travel.

Beyond the fact that the submarine deal with China was signed and that KSEW will produce four of the eight ships, there are no official details, especially in regards to the submarine’s design, specifications, sensor suite, weapons inventory, or even the origin or design of its AIP system. It is believed that Pakistan’s submarines will be derived from the S20, the export variant of the Type 039A/Type 041. However, the details can only be left for speculation, at least at this stage. That said, it would be safe to assume that the Pakistan Navy will aim to position these submarines as strategic assets (via nuclear-tipped land attack cruise missiles), so as to complete Pakistan’s second-strike triad.

Overall, the Pakistan Navy’s submarine modernization roadmap is promising. With the Agosta 90Bs placed in the upgrade pipeline (with the Turkish shipbuilder STM’s support), the inclusion of these eight Chinese submarines will go a significant way in strengthening the Pakistan Navy’s anti-access and area denial (A2/AD) capabilities. In fact, there are not many countries that would boast as many as 11 AIP-powered submarines.
SOURCE:quwa.org

Please correct me sir if i am wrong, the last submarine of this deal will deliver in 2028.... According to First post report:

"The first four submarines are expected to be delivered by the end of 2023 while the remaining four will be assembled in Karachi by 2028."

https://www.firstpost.com/world/pak...-eight-chinese-attack-submarines-2985174.html

 

[monitor]

does not seem to have any VLS

If I am not wrong benefit of having VLS is launching ballastic missile with nuclear warhead.. Pakistan will use Babur-3 SLCM through the torpedo tube for missile launch .

 

[Safriz]

If I am not wrong benefit of having VLS is launching ballastic missile with nuclear warhead.. Pakistan will use Babur-3 SLCM through the torpedo tube for missile launch .

Yes but cruise missiles can also be launched from VLS with added benefit of being able to fire from greater depth than from torpedo tubes.

 

[Karl]

Yes but cruise missiles can also be launched from VLS with added benefit of being able to fire from greater depth than from torpedo tubes.

I wonder what size the torpedo tubes are. Israeli dolphin class subs have 6 × 533 mm and 4 × 650 mm diameter ones. If I'm not mistaken China's Type 032 submarine Qing class testbed submarine had

• 1 × 650 mm, 1 x 533 mm torpedo tubes
• 2 SLBM VLS and 4 Cruise missile VLS,

Ideally, you'd want a mix of boats, my suggestion would be

4 with 6 × 533 mm and 4 × 650 mm torpedo tubes
4 with 8 × Cruise missile VLS

Save the SLBM VLS for the nuke sub (although doubtful Pakistan will go for a SSBN, probs a SSN attack like Brazil)