Hamza Ali Abbasi take on homosexuality

[ziaulislam]

Hamza Ali Abbasi

My heart sank when my 12 yr old nephew asked me what is gay? and why are people celebrating gay marriage being legal in US? I am really sorry but i am disappointed at people in Pakistan celebrating a behaviour which is taboo even in animals. I wont hate you if you are gay but i will certainly NOT CELEBRATE IT. Stop trying to justify homosexuality under the banner of "universal love". And please, we have bigger issues in the world and in our own country than trying to make normal and natural what is abnormal and un-natural. Gay marriage does not mean "human equality". Stop mutilating the concepts of human equality and justice. Tolerance means tolerating something...not celebrating it. Whats next? Legalising and celebrating incest?

 

[VCheng]

What is legal or illegal in the US has no bearing or jurisdiction on the rest of the world. US laws are for USA and its citizens only. What's next will be determined by US citizens according to their own legal process, whatever it might be. Why should anybody else fret about that since it does not apply to them at all?

 

[Manindra]

I am not supporter of homosexual marriage but in India you could get arrested for being homosexual is absurd.
I wish Government of India should allow homosexual marriage but barred them from adopting children.

 

[Jango]

There country, there laws. None of our concern.

Although I do oppose it, and that's about it. Amreeki jo karain karnay do.

What is legal or illegal in the US has no bearing or jurisdiction on the rest of the world. US laws are for USA and its citizens only. What's next will be determined by US citizens according to their own legal process, whatever it might be. Why should anybody else fret about that since it does not apply to them at all?

The public stance that he is taking isn't anti-American or whatever. His stance on the issue is, "I don't support it, but they've done it, whatever".

His main grudge in this whole issue is that the so-called liberal and progressive thinking chaps in Pakistan are ridiculing him and others for such issues, referencing to his acting shoots and other such adventures and then labeling him a closet Mullah and hypocrite and whatever.

His next status is much more explanatory...have a look at that.

Not taking sides here, just giving the backdrop of this.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

I wish Government of India should allow homosexual marriage but barred them from adopting children.

they shouldnt be arrested that i agree
but allow them to marry the next thing they demand will be adoptions

 

[VCheng]

His main grudge in this whole issue is that the so-called liberal and progressive thinking chaps in Pakistan are ridiculing him and others for such issues, referencing to his acting shoots and other such adventures and then labeling him a closet Mullah and hypocrite and whatever.

That is an important debate for Pakistanis to have as well, as a nation. Must all Pakistanis conform to the State enforcement of the majority's will regarding religion, or is diversity allowed and tolerated, and to what extent? That is the real issue here, IMO.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Legalising and celebrating incest?

exactly wait a decade or two every thing will repeat itself

 

[Jango]

That is an important debate for Pakistanis to have as well, as a nation. Must all Pakistanis conform to the State enforcement of the majority's will regarding religion, or is diversity allowed and tolerated, and to what extent? That is the real issue here, IMO.

No it is not.

This freedom of choice/expression/speech thing is a hyperbole, over-used, misunderstood etc etc.

There is no such thing as total freedom of speech. There are always certain bounds and limits imposed by a society.

The society always has underlying prejudices in it's mind, either consciously or sub-consciously and they show over the larger scale. Your concept of freedom of speech might not be the same as mine. So whose concept to take forward? Yours or mine? That's where the state has to come in and regulate some stuff. And it does that. What's the problem in that?

One such often cited example is that of Holocaust and Nazi related material. Quoting from an American on another forum himself regarding the confederate flag debate, "Sons of confederate veterans" is a perfectly valid forum because it highlights the sacrifices of the Confederates for their beliefs but a "Sons of Nazi/Holocaust veterans" would be berated all over the place and ridiculed and the law will take it's action. In Germany you'll get arrested. This is because of the underlying prejudices of the society I mentioned above.

 

[VCheng]

No it is not.

This freedom of choice/expression/speech thing is a hyperbole, over-used, misunderstood etc etc.

There is no such thing as total freedom of speech. There are always certain bounds and limits imposed by a society.

The society always has underlying prejudices in it's mind, either consciously or sub-consciously and they show over the larger scale. Your concept of freedom of speech might not be the same as mine. So whose concept to take forward? Yours or mine? That's where the state has to come in and regulate some stuff. And it does that. What's the problem in that?

One such often cited example is that of Holocaust and Nazi related material. Quoting from an American on another forum himself regarding the confederate flag debate, "Sons of confederate veterans" is a perfectly valid forum because it highlights the sacrifices of the Confederates for their beliefs but a "Sons of Nazi/Holocaust veterans" would be berated all over the place and ridiculed and the law will take it's action. In Germany you'll get arrested. This is because of the underlying prejudices of the society I mentioned above.

Actually, that is quite close to what I am trying to say here: It is up to Pakistani society to determine for itself what level of freedom of speech it wants for itself and what bounds it wants place and how to enforce them. What happens halfway across the world in another country has nothing to do with this debate at all. All I am saying is that it is important for Pakistanis to have such a debate too.

 

[Jango]

Coming specifically to Pakistan's case, there is no grey area in our case, it's written in black and white in our constitution and also the Quran regarding gay laws. So, nothing to be discussed.

All I am saying is that it is important for Pakistanis to have such a debate too.

Why?

 

[VCheng]

Coming specifically to Pakistan's case, there is no grey area in our case, it's written in black and white in our constitution and also the Quran regarding gay laws. So, nothing to be discussed.




Why?

So how do you propose to deal with gays in Pakistan? Are there none? Or do you want to pretend there are none? Do you propose to kill them all as the black-and-white laws prescribe? Or do you want them to just carry on in private without any public discourse? All of these are valid options for Pakistan, and must be respected as decided by the people of Pakistan.

 

[Hyperion]

You couldn't be more wrong dear..... United States of America has this habit of shoving 'their' version of 'cool' down EVERYONE ELSES throat.

Mark my words and bookmark this thread, very soon, gay-lesbo rights /support centers coming to US consulate near you... this is just the beginning, soon after this, you'll see first gay-rights-war being waged against some poor defenseless country, pretext will be "XYZ were not letting dude A and dude B to tie the knot"....... after that wait for IMF withholding disbursements based on country X's gay-rights-profile...... soon after the UN and all other multilateral agencies to be forcefully renamed, RUN (Rainbow United Nations)..... etc etc......

In the END, you guys will focus all your attention on China..... and the punchline would be "China isn't gay enough".....

What is legal or illegal in the US has no bearing or jurisdiction on the rest of the world. US laws are for USA and its citizens only.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

decided by the people of Pakistan.

they would want them slaughtered

So how do you propose to deal with gays in Pakistan?

just carry on in private without any public discourse?

they should for their own sake

 

[Jango]

So how do you propose to deal with gays in Pakistan? Are there none? Or do you want to pretend there are none? Do you propose to kill them all as the black-and-white laws prescribe? Or do you want them to just carry on in private without any public discourse? All of these are valid options for Pakistan, and must be respected as decided by the people of Pakistan.

No one is killing them. They are doing whatever they do in their own lives perfectly well.

Why does a person need to parade around with a "GAY" stamp on his forehead?

And the majority in Pakistan is fine with the laws as they are...so what's the problem?

Or are you trying to impose your liberal views on us? The blame that the liberal lobby most often puts on those "Jahil Mullahs"?

In informal terms, aap ko kia takleef hai? Just like, hamain kia takleef hai amreeka main kia ho raha hai?

A case of tumhara kutta Tommy, mera kutta kutta?

You couldn't be more wrong dear..... United States of America has this habit of shoving 'their' version of 'cool' down EVERYONE ELSES throat.

Exactly my point.

The US and also the pseudo-liberals in Pakistan say that let others do what they want, but in reality, they are shoving their own version on other people, just like Maulvis are blamed for it on the other end of the spectrum.

 

[VCheng]

No one is killing them. They are doing whatever they do in their own lives perfectly well.

Why does a person need to parade around with a "GAY" stamp on his forehead?

And the majority in Pakistan is fine with the laws as they are...so what's the problem?

Or are you trying to impose your liberal views on us? The blame that the liberal lobby most often puts on those "Jahil Mullahs"?

In informal terms, aap ko kia takleef hai? Just like, hamain kia takleef hai amreeka main kia ho raha hai?

A case of tumhara kutta Tommy, mera kutta kutta?



Exactly my point.

The US and also the pseudo-liberals in Pakistan say that let others do what they want, but in reality, they are shoving their own version on other people, just like Maulvis are blamed for it on the other end of the spectrum.

Every country decides for itself, but then every country also interacts with other countries according to its own ideals and aspirations, tempered by realpolitik. Therefore, if USA says or does anything that Pakistanis feel threatens their way of life, they are perfectly within their rights to respond as best as they can.

Given that basic tenet, kisi ko koi takleef nahi honee chahiye, from either side.