HAL to produce cryogenic engines for ISRO

[S-DUCT]

With all the complicated design...SSME simply cannot generate enough thrust for lift off without solid rocket boosters.
While Buran's energia rocket did not need solid rocket boosters and gained lift off by liquidfuels alone.

Yeah,thats because It uses LOX and kerosene.This fuel mixture gives more energy per mass volume than Hydrogen oxygen fuel mixture.
SSME has the highest TWR among all cryogenic engines.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

"intriguing'' because semi cryogenic are much more difficult to make than improve on an existing cryogenic design or improve on solid fuel rocket motors of the boosters,or a combination of both.

Why do you say that? on the contrary semi cryo engines are easier to make and handle because you are replacing LIQUID HYDROGEN with friendly refined kerosene.

 

[Safriz]

Why do you say that? on the contrary semi cryo engines are easier to make and handle because you are replacing LIQUID HYDROGEN with friendly refined kerosene.

Metullargy is difficult,as one pump/engine compartment is handling both cryogenic oxygen at minus silly degrees and kerosene at normal temperature.
Metal alloy should be able to bear those simultaneous thermal shocks.
Then combustion chamber design.
On semi cryo its extremely high presure and cant have too many injection points.
While on SSME we see bathroom shower shaped fuel injector with too many openings,that doesnt allow as much chamber pressure as semi cryo.

 

[S-DUCT]

Metullargy is difficult,as one pump/engine compartment is handling both cryogenic oxygen at minus silly degrees and kerosene at normal temperature.
Metal alloy should be able to bear those simultaneous thermal shocks.
Then combustion chamber design.
On semi cryo its extremely high presure and cant have too many injection points.
While on SSME we see bathroom shower shaped fuel injector with too many openings,that doesnt allow as much chamber pressure as semi cryo.

No,every CE/SCE has separate turbopumps for handling Fuel and oxidiser.So Fuel turbopumps require less harse metullargy in SCE engines also you don't need to bother about hydrogen embrittlement in SCE.
Each turbopump has two parts:pump and turbine.
Staged combustion engines: exhaust product from preburner are used to power turbines of each
turbopump.
Gas generator engines: exhaust product from gas generator used to power turbines of each
turbopump.


If SCE and CE operating under same cycle ,then SCE chamber pressure is higher than CE chamber pressure.CE/SCE working in staged combustion cycle has higher chamber pressure than any contempory CE/SCE working under different cycle.

 

[Safriz]

^^ Ok...then why nobody could make a 'first stage' SCE?
Except ruskies? There must be something to it.

 

[David James]

The over criticizing Indian posters and foreign trolls have missed 2 pints in the news:

The Indian Space Research Organisation is setting up a Rs.139-crore facility at the Bangalore unit of the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. to produce cryogenic engines and complex components for its GSLV and future rockets and it will be ready in three years.

ISRO Chairman K. Radhakrishnan said this on the sidelines of a lecture programme here on Saturday.

At present, ISRO is developing cryogenic engines with a consortium of Godrej and Hyderabad’s MTAR. HAL is said to have been approved as a second source of assemblage by the Space Commission last month.

 

[S-DUCT]

^^ Ok...then why nobody could make a 'first stage' SCE?
Except ruskies? There must be something to it.

F-1A :the most powerful ,single chambered SCE powered 1st stage of Saturn V much earliar N-1 moon rocket.
Russian designers use concept of shared turbopumps and they faced problems of combustion instability,in 1950s while designing bigger thrust chambers. At that time they solved the problem by using a cluster of smaller thrust chambers.

 

[Safriz]

F-1A :the most powerful ,single chambered SCE powered 1st stage of Saturn V much earliar N-1 moon rocket.
Russian designers use concept of shared turbopumps and they faced problems of combustion instability,in 1950s while designing bigger thrust chambers. At that time they solved the problem by using a cluster of smaller thrust chambers.

Yes thats true,F-1 was A kerosene burner,but had open loop and hence lower chamber pressure.The gases turning the fuel pump were exhausted instead of being fed back into combustion chamber.
I read somewhere that the uprated version F-1A was developed but never used.

Anyway lets get back to the topic...if you have any details about ISRO's rocket engine development please post here

 

[S-DUCT]

Yes thats true,F-1 was A kerosene burner,but had open loop and hence lower chamber pressure.The gases turning the fuel pump were exhausted instead of being fed back into combustion chamber.
I read somewhere that the uprated version F-1A was developed but never used.

Anyway lets get back to the topic...if you have any details about ISRO's rocket engine development please post here

Though all relevent details that i've searched are posted on ISRO's thread,I'll post in brief(i have test tommrrow @ 7:30am)
CE development:CE-20(open gas generator cycled),CE-60(closed staged combustion cycled).
SCE development:SCE-160(closed staged combustion).
CE-20 will be fully developed in 2017 if there is no failure of GSLV-MK3X mission.CE-60 is in advanced conceptual stage.
SCE developmentesign of single element thrust chamber was completed and single element thrust chamber injector elements realised and cold flow tested. A rubber composition resistant to ISROSENE was also qualified. Rectangular rings, gaskets and O-rings for control components and turbo pump of semi cryogenic engine
as well as Tri-ethyl aluminum (TEA) based hypergolic igniter have also been developed. Hot test was carried out with LOX step injection mode on semi cryogenic pre-burner injector at high pressure after completing cold flow trials and sequence validation tests. Further tests with step injection for ISROSENE and LOX are planned.

I was wrong about SCE having two turbopumps.All SCE have two pumps(one for oxidiser and other for fuel) but they have same turbine part this is also called Shared turbopump.