HAL secures copter order from Peru

[vish]

Who's saying the Dhruv is the king of the ring?

God you guys don't give up do you? You keep going around shouting "IT'S INDIAN" with all your might, desperately trying to score points on a Pakistani website.

Gee... hit the nerve, didn't we? Who wants to score points?

We post here because this forum is unbiased; I don't give a rattlesnake's arse whether it is Pakistani, Ugandan, American or Martian.

I have been here two years and I have gotten used to a few things. Indian members have become very agile at explaining failures. And passing off small things and monumental things when they are not.

Isn't that likely to be a perception? You claimed Dhruv is a failure and you say so because of reasons you've left ambigious.

YOu have sold how many? How many have crashed? Stop passing off mediocrity as a huge acheivement. I for one and not gonna be amused by you guys blowing sunshine up each others ***** and coming rolling in.

I wonder what "*****" meant. We have sold 9-10 and it is a mediocre achievement; you presumed that we are claiming otherwise and went on downing our "tiny little raft" by claiming it is a failure.

So far the only thing thats working for India is to call something joint venture (Where the other guy does all the work and then you paint the Indian flag on the side)

Flaming are we? Perhaps the rules do not apply to the moderators. Further, all of our JVs have been two-way streets.

I point out again.
German design
British engine
Israeli avionics
Italian gun system
Indian paint

The German firm was the design consultant for the ALH.
The engine is a joint-development between HAL and Turbomeca (a French firm).
Some avionics are Isreali, some French, some Indian.
The gun system is Italian; we haven't developed one yet.
As far as the paint is concerned, I guess it is Indian.

9 helicopters sold..........

9+ foreign sales...

I look forward to you guys posting a thread explaining how the TATA NANO can beat a Ferrari

As far sales in thrild world countries go, the Nano will beat the F430 any day. By the way, stupid analogy and a pathetic joke.

 

[p2prada]

One last thing.....one of you guys have countered my argument that the armed service would kick up a stink if they were given a substandard product.I guess that explains why they are fighting the induction (or only inducting a handfull) of many other products.

IA and IAF have around 40 helis each.
IN have 6.
coast guard have 4

approx 100 ALH have already been and sold.

IA also plans to induct 65 ACH of the same ALH make.

 

[Keysersoze]

Please note a important phrase from the Turbomeca site (You are correct about its origins I went to the British website first in error)

The TM 333 2B2 is the sole production engine used on the Dhruv. Several hundreds engines have been ordered, with deliveries in progress.
TURBOMECA - Safran Group

Ok regards to my "flaming" I am taking you guys to task for it and you have used your usual swarm tactics where you and a few other members attempt to jump all over the poster who dares criticise any product produced by INDIA!

My reasons are simple If the army decides to choose the Fennec after trials. WHy then go for the Dhruv unless there was other reasons? After all would there not simply be another Trial if there were "bidding irregularities?"

And sorry the Idea that somehow you JV's involve any of the important parts is ludicrous. iAll of the JV's have involved the other partners doing the legwork whilst you change the trimmings.

Lets get back to the Dhruv again. Now what exactly did Indian develop on that aircraft? as we have covered. The engine is French. As stipulated above.

The guns on the Dhruv by Nextor systems
The medivac interiors aren't even done by HAL.

Under the terms of the first agreement, IAI will develop and supply an advanced avionics for the "Dhruv" helicopter, valued at tens of millions of dollars.

http://www.iai.co.il/Default.aspx?docID=28093&FolderID=28973&lang=en

100 points for anyone who can spot the words "joint venture" feel free to go and take a llok at athe IAI website for the rest of it.

Now if you guys weren't all on here swarming as you like to do then maybe this thread would have quietened down.

 

[JEFF]

I want to share a little story with you guys........

There is a program over here which sums up the kind of attitude some of you guys here...I have gotten really bored with some of the self aggrandizements you guys post.

I don’t understand one thing, what you have anything to do with our attitude. No offence, but you have yet to answer some of my questions.

Simple fact is that BELL helicopters have sold more helicopters to private concerns in India than You have sold in the rest of the world. (I tried to find the total sales but it was taking too long) but 24 helicopters to a Mumbai company

EADS sold 802 helicopters in 2007 alone

Sikorsky have many many more......

Oh so you have so much self-respect for Dhurv that you give it a dignity and reputation by comparing it with Bell helicopter & Sikorsky.

You know the Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm, designed

Not designed rather consulation and it is widely accepted because there is nothing anything in it which makes it less as a Homegrown design.

Israeli avionics fitted

Sorry boss, it is comprise of isreali, French and Indian one.

British engine "The TM 333 2B2 is the sole production engine used on the Dhruv."
Helicopter.

Once again sorry for the foul, it is jointly made Shakti Engine between French and India.

With the above being said

Watch this to see the kind of mentality you guys seem to portray.

hvuocUXvxlI[/media] - Goodness Gracious Me - art is Indian!


Bell Helicopter - News: Global Vectra Helicorp Orders Two Bell 412s

Huh? One again question mark over our attitude. I am seriously amazed to see what it has anything to do with current discussion.

One last thing.....one of you guys have countered my argument that the armed service would kick up a stink if they were given a substandard product.I guess that explains why they are fighting the induction (or only inducting a handfull) of many other products.

Also do tell us what you used to guess with that.

God you guys don't give up do you?

Why there is a need to give up, when we are themselves enable to provide some valid points to correct some blatant error and prejudice over here.

You keep going around shouting "IT'S INDIAN" with all your might,

Then have you got any problem with? Or just envy of it.

desperately trying to score points on a Pakistani website.

Huh! Now What we are going to earn anything from above?

I have been here two years and I have gotten used to a few things. Indian members have become very agile at explaining failures. And passing off small things and monumental things when they are not.

Then why don’t you challenge them to counter their agility?

YOu have sold how many? How many have crashed? Stop passing off mediocrity as a huge acheivement.

Well we don’t need any confirmation or a permission from you to what we should call as a achievement or not.

I for one and not gonna be amused by you guys blowing sunshine up each others ***** and coming rolling in.

Then what’s problem with that, if they so invalid then you have every right to object it.

So far the only thing thats working for India is to call something joint venture (Where the other guy does all the work and then you paint the Indian flag on the side)

But biggest irony, you can’t provide anything sufficient to back up your claim.

I point out again.

Weren’t you admitted about getting boredom?

German design

Only consultation.

British engine

It is jointly made Shakti Engine.

Israeli avionics

Invalid, comprises of Isreali, French and India.

Italian gun system

But it works upon Indian system.

Indian paint

Do tell us about their colour.

9 helicopters sold..........

Don’t worry it was a promo, you have yet to see whole blockbuster movie.

I look forward to you guys posting a thread explaining how the TATA NANO can beat a Ferrari

Well we aren’t among one who will gona go haywire making a noise without any substantial back up.

 

[Keysersoze]

Oh and I got reps for that NANO joke so I guess its the way I tell em.....

 

[p2prada]

Oh and I got reps for that NANO joke so I guess its the way I tell em.....

Nice comeback



Anyways Shakti is not a brit but a french JV

 

[Keysersoze]

I don’t understand one thing, what you have anything to do with our attitude. No offence, but you have yet to answer some of my questions.




Oh so you have so much self-respect for Dhurv that you give it a dignity and reputation by comparing it with Bell helicopter & Sikorsky.



Not designed rather consulation and it is widely accepted because there is nothing anything in it which makes it less as a Homegrown design.



Sorry boss, it is comprise of isreali, French and Indian one.



Once again sorry for the foul, it is jointly made Shakti Engine between French and India.




Huh? One again question mark over our attitude. I am seriously amazed to see what it has anything to do with current discussion.



Also do tell us what you used to guess with that.




Why there is a need to give up, when we are themselves enable to provide some valid points to correct some blatant error and prejudice over here.



Then have you got any problem with? Or just envy of it.



Huh! Now What we are going to earn anything from above?




Then why don’t you challenge them to counter their agility?



Well we don’t need any confirmation or a permission from you to what we should call as a achievement or not.



Then what’s problem with that, if they so invalid then you have every right to object it.


But biggest irony, you can’t provide anything sufficient to back up your claim.



Weren’t you admitted about getting boredom?



Only consultation.



It is jointly made Shakti Engine.



Invalid, comprises of Isreali, French and India.



But it works upon Indian system.



Do tell us about their colour.



Don’t worry it was a promo, you have yet to see whole blockbuster movie.




Well we aren’t among one who will gona go haywire making a noise without any substantial back up.

Ok jeff one of your ridiculously long posts which no one bothers answering because its such a pain in the arse to read but here goes......


1)Your questions are not really questions just attempts at being clever. ergo most of us can't be bothered with it. seriously its tedious going through your posts.

2)I give the Dhruv as much dignity as any Indian made product I pray I never have to trust the guys at HAL

3)Ah yes German design but hey lets take all the credit.....Do the words Bk-117 ring any bells? Go take a look seriously its like the Dhruv! the same way the ARJuN looks like early model leopards!!!! I bet the Indian designers came up with it all by themselves !!!

In July 1984, HAL started development of a new 12-seat helicopter known as the ALH (Advanced Light Helicopter) which was designed with assistance from MBB in Germany. It followed a similar layout to that of the BK-117 although it is a larger aircraft.
ttp://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/india.php

4)According IAI it developed the avionics..........take a look at my post above

5) nope the Turbomecca site claims their engine is the sole engine in the Dhruv and I will believe them. Jointly made engine huh? what did you bring to the table?


The rest of your post was drivel Jeff......I have given my sources where are yours please?

 

[Keysersoze]

i am off to work have fun guys....

 

[p2prada]

2)I give the Dhruv as much dignity as any Indian made product I pray I never have to trust the guys at HAL

the doors of the Airbus A-380 are being made by HAL. Pray u dont get into the A-380 anytime soon.

The entire electrical wiring of the Airbus A-380 cargo plane is being designed in india by a bangalore based company. It was actually a european company which moved base to bangalore. Pray u dont transport anything using the A-380.

 

[vish]

Please note a important phrase from the Turbomeca site (You are correct about its origins I went to the British website first in error)

The TM 333 2B2 is the sole production engine used on the Dhruv. Several hundreds engines have been ordered, with deliveries in progress.
TURBOMECA - Safran Group

What about this:
TURBOMECA - Safran Group

Ok regards to my "flaming" I am taking you guys to task for it and you have used your usual swarm tactics where you and a few other members attempt to jump all over the poster who dares criticise any product produced by INDIA!

I'm all okay with criticism of India's products that do not work. You haven't criticized; you simply went on all guns blazing without even making your points clear. Your criticism was more wishful than factual. As far as swarming goes, everybody has to face it some time or the other.

My reasons are simple If the army decides to choose the Fennec after trials. WHy then go for the Dhruv unless there was other reasons? After all would there not simply be another Trial if there were "bidding irregularities?"

Army Technology - A Tale of Two Air Forces - Indian Army Helicopters

Please read the above report.

And sorry the Idea that somehow you JV's involve any of the important parts is ludicrous. iAll of the JV's have involved the other partners doing the legwork whilst you change the trimmings.

Again a prejudice.

Lets get back to the Dhruv again. Now what exactly did Indian develop on that aircraft? as we have covered. The engine is French. As stipulated above.

The guns on the Dhruv by Nextor systems
The medivac interiors aren't even done by HAL.

I'll repeat again:
The German firm was the design consultant for the ALH.
The engine is a joint-development between HAL and Turbomeca (a French firm).
Some avionics are Isreali, some French, some Indian.
The gun system is Italian; we haven't developed one yet.
The medivac interiors are not Indian.
As far as the paint is concerned, I guess it is Indian.

Under the terms of the first agreement, IAI will develop and supply an advanced avionics for the "Dhruv" helicopter, valued at tens of millions of dollars.

http://www.iai.co.il/Default.aspx?docID=28093&FolderID=28973&lang=en

100 points for anyone who can spot the words "joint venture" feel free to go and take a llok at athe IAI website for the rest of it.

Does this imply that all the avionic components in the Dhruv are Isreali? All the above report clarifies is that the Dhruv does use Isreali components.

Now if you guys weren't all on here swarming as you like to do then maybe this thread would have quietened down.

This thread would have quietened down if it weren't for your rhetoric and prejudice. You are assuming that we claim that the Dhrucv is a spectacular success; you are stating that the Dhruv is a failure; in both cases you're wrong.

 

[p2prada]

Bangalore: With the first official flight of the Shakti-powered Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv scheduled to take off on Thursday, designer-manufacturer of the helicopter, the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), is undoubtedly euphoric.

Two helicopters, one with a glass cockpit and powered by the Shakti, and another with air-to-air missiles, rockets and turret guns will fly past an audience that will include the Secretary (Defence Production).

On Friday, the helicopters will demonstrate their capabilities to the Chief of Army Staff General J.J. Singh. The Army is the Dhruv’s biggest customer having received a majority of the 70-odd helicopters.

Until now, the Dhruvs have been powered by the French-built Turbomeca 333 2B2 engine, but the Shakti which has been developed jointly by the HAL and Turbomeca has over 20 per cent more power. The power will serve the helicopter well when it is used by the defence forces at high altitude as well as in hot, dry and humid conditions.

But with questions having been raised by the three service chiefs over Dhruv’s fleet serviceability and with issues over the supply of spares, HAL will have to pull out all the stops if they are to satisfy their customers. According to HAL chairman Ashok Baweja, problems over the Dhruv’s fleet serviceability and spares are a thing of the past.

Speaking to The Hindu, Mr. Baweja said that there had been a time a few months ago when HAL had been busy equipping their helicopters with glass cockpits (rather than the conventional instrumentation systems) and this could have cau sed a few minor delays.

“All fleets have these problems. This is nothing unusual. The ALH’s supply lines are working fine.”

Highlighting the light-weight Dhruv’s matchless ability to operate at high altitude (6 km) and its unique offset flapping hinges, Mr Baweja said that HAL had orders (for the Dhruv) till 2015-16.

A number of countries especially Turkey, Chile, Venezuela and Bolivia have also evinced interest in the civilian variant of the Dhruv.
Glass cockpits

HAL has equipped all the Dhruvs that were produced during the 2006-07 financial year with glass cockpits, switching from the multi dialled conventional instrumentation system to one that has just four MFDs (multi-function displays).

These Dhruvs, which have been inducted into the Army Aviation Corps’ 203 squadron, offer pilots information at their fingertips, besides decreasing workload and increasing man-machine interface.

The Hindu : Karnataka News : Shakti-powered Dhruv helicopter to fly today

 

[p2prada]

The Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv, the technology showpiece of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), soared to greater heights with the more powerful Shakti engine and in weaponised role.
The inaugural flights of Dhruv powered by Shakti engine and loaded with weapons took place at HAL’s Helicopter Division in Bangalore on Thursday.
Addressing the media after impressive maiden flights, HAL Chairman Mr Ashok K. Baweja said that a simulator school will be set up by next September along with CAE, Canada with common modules of training, though primarily for ALH.

The ALH has the utility and weaponised variants, and while conceptualizing the latter, there was a need for a more powerful engine for the additional payload of weapons, especially while operating at high altitude.“The Shakti engine, developed jointly by Turbomeca (French) and HAL, develops almost 30 per cent more power compared to the TM 333-2B2 engine, with 19 per cent content of Indian development,” Mr Baweja said.

The new engine is likely to get the certification by January next year, after carriage trials, butt firing and air firing besides various other trials. ``The weapons are being integrated on the variant. We are doing everything to make it (weaponised Dhruv) a lethal platform for the military services,’’ he said, adding that the ALH would provide the right solution for the forces’ strategy.

After introducing the ALH in 2002, phenomenal improvements have been made after incorporating feedback from the users – Army, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard, who have operationalised the aircraft and flown it over the desert, sea and high mountains. ``The ALH today is different from when it was introduced in 2002,’’ the Chairman added. Improvements include the glass cockpit, weapons and new engine.

“The current order book for the ALH is large and the number of helicopters required is clearly indicative of its excellent performance,” Mr Baweja added.

On the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH), Mr Baweja said that the copter will be of tandem seating and capable of operating at very high altitudes. The LCH is likely to make its inaugural flight sometime in August next year. On the LCA Tejas project, Mr Baweja said that the LSP began in March and HAL was committed to deliver the aircraft on time.

The Hawk production would start shortly and the first batch of the Advanced Jet Trainers would be handed over to the customer early April 2008. “Existing infrastructure will be used for Hawk production after winding up Jaguar operations and the LCA manufacture too will pick up full steam. There will also be new hangars for the Hawks and LCA. The order book is firm and the Company is moving ahead with a clear vision for the next 5 to 10 years,” the Chairman said.

New programmes like the heavy cargo lift and new generation fighter coming up, HAL too has changed its strategy of business, keeping in mind the multiplicity of tasks involved. Four divisions will be dedicated to helicopters.

Replying to a query on Dhruv’s export potential, Mr Baweja said that the primary focus would be to set up maintenance facilities and cater to the domestic market first, taking into account the huge requirements.

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited

 

[p2prada]

The Ardiden is the latest member of the Turbomeca engine family. Its first application is the Dhruv twin-engine helicopter (formerly called the ALH - Advanced Light Helicopter) from HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) of India.

image
Turbomeca has developed a new turboshaft engine with a completely different design concept. The Ardiden features a simple, modular and compact design. It is built around a gas generator with two centrifugal compressor stages, coupled to a single-stage high-pressure turbine. The power turbine comprises two stages. The engine is controlled by a dual-channel Engine Electronic Control Unit (EECU).
With its simple and modular design, the Ardiden offers very low cost of maintenance and ownership. It is designed to develop 900 kW (1,200 shp) takeoff power and satisfy the most demanding mission requirements, while retaining full performance under high altitude and hot temperature conditions.

The Ardiden is intended for helicopters in the 5 to 6.5-ton class. For its first application, the Dhruv, a first engine variant christened the Ardiden 1H (or "Shakti" in India) is jointly developed and producted with HAL.
image.

TURBOMECA - Safran Group

 

[p2prada]

The Ardiden features a simple and modular design with 3 modules for easy maintenance: a reduction / accessory gearbox module, a gas generator module and a power turbine module. The Ardiden has a TBO (Time Between Overhaul) ranging from 3,000 to 6,000 hours.

EASA certified in December 2007, the Ardiden 1H, christened "Shakti", powers the Dhruv twin-engine helicopter (formerly called ALH - Advanced Light Helicopter) built by HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.) of India. Shaki has completed its first run on test bench in October 2005, with production of more than 300 engines on the horizon.
The Dhruv, re-engined with the Ardiden 1H, made its maiden flight on August 16th 2007, in HAL’s helicopter division, Bangalore, India.

TURBOMECA - Safran Group

The engine was certified only recently(2007).
I guess more proof is not required.

 

[nitesh]

Isnt this being discussed in a different thread already.

Hey I had already cross posted it. this is why i request to bundle up everything in to one thread something like "India Airforce Thread". And keep every discussion there. Otherwise things get scattered. Yes but LCA and Arjun needs a different thread