HAL secures copter order from Peru

[Vinod2070]

So What have they decided to replace the Chetak with? Also why are the govt deciding to ram the aircraft down the navies throat?

And maybe the IA and IAF have decided to think of the "larger good" as well.

I read somewhere that the JF-17 was rammed down the unwilling Chinese Air Force throat for the same reason: "larger good".

This secured for them another air force, the PAF.

 

[Keysersoze]

One other point....The IA has a requirement of 12 air ambulances. From the original article it would seem the HAL would have to outsource the interiors as they don't do them themselves.

 

[Keysersoze]

I read somewhere that the JF-17 was rammed down the unwilling Chinese Air Force throat for the same reason: "larger good".

This secured for them another air force, the PAF.

I think you will find that the topic in this thread is the Dhruv helicopter. And the Chinese situation is not clear.

 

[vish]

So What have they decided to replace the Chetak with? Also why are the govt deciding to ram the aircraft down the navies throat?

The navy has made it clear that they want a bigger toy. The MoD's being a miser and saying no. This is rather common in India. Just because they are replacing the Chetak it does not imply they'll go for something in that class only. May be the IN intends to augment its capacity.

And maybe the IA and IAF have decided to think of the "larger good" as well.

You're jumping the gun. If indeed what you're suggesting is true, we would have heard a whole lot of noise.

 

[Keysersoze]

The navy has made it clear that they want a bigger toy. The MoD's being a miser and saying no. This is rather common in India. Just because they are replacing the Chetak it does not imply they'll go for something in that class only. May be the IN intends to augment its capacity.



You're jumping the gun. If indeed what you're suggesting is true, we would have heard a whole lot of noise.

Well it appears the aircraft is being rammed down at least one services throat. Why is it unreasonable to assume that this was not the case previously. Its unusual that they would go for a totally different platform. Would it not be a easy task to remove some of the internal space with fuel storage and increase endurance?

 

[vish]

Well it appears the aircraft is being rammed down at least one services throat. Why is it unreasonable to assume that this was not the case previously.

The Indian armed services have a history of being very vocal about their displeasure with home-made stuff. So your assumption is moot.

Its unusual that they would go for a totally different platform.

The IN will buy whatever suits its needs. Why is this unusual? Obviously they must have looked at everything and then come to the conclusion that the Dhruv does not float their boat. How does this imply that the Dhruv is a failure given that the IA and IAF have praised it?

Would it not be a easy task to remove some of the internal space with fuel storage and increase endurance?

If it were that easy it would have been done by now. People who working on these birds are competent enough. Things obviously are more difficult.

Yes, the HAL will have to outsource the interiors.

 

[Keysersoze]

The Indian armed services have a history of being very vocal about their displeasure with home-made stuff. So your assumption is moot.



The IN will buy whatever suits its needs. Why is this unusual? Obviously they must have looked at everything and then come to the conclusion that the Dhruv does not float their boat. How does this imply that the Dhruv is a failure given that the IA and IAF have praised it?



If it were that easy it would have been done by now. People who working on these birds are competent enough. Things obviously are more difficult.

Yes, the HAL will have to outsource the interiors.

You mean by buying larger amounts of foreign kit? Such as the Fennec for the IAF (which then is suddenly "scrapped")

My assertion is not moot, as the procurement of other "indigenous" products has followed similar patterns.

 

[vish]

You mean by buying larger amounts of foreign kit? Such as the Fennec for the IAF (which then is suddenly "scrapped")

My assertion is not moot, as the procurement of other "indigenous" products has followed similar patterns.

Army Technology - A Tale of Two Air Forces - Indian Army Helicopters

The above report speculates that the Fennec, which is half the weight and price of Dhruv, was ordered so as to maintain a backup given the fact that the Dhruv will be HAL's first attempt at making a helicopter.

Further, the report clearly states that the Dhruv is "an effective system."

Your assumption that the Dhruv is a failure is moot.

 

[p2prada]

Well it appears the aircraft is being rammed down at least one services throat. Why is it unreasonable to assume that this was not the case previously. Its unusual that they would go for a totally different platform. Would it not be a easy task to remove some of the internal space with fuel storage and increase endurance?

A recent 300+ helicopter deal by the indian army with BELL or EUROCOPTER was turned down due to alleged kickbacks in the deal. So, govt has probably put helicopter deals on hold to curb corruption. so, they are suggesting the ALH to IN. The reporters always make it sound like everything is the Govt's fault. But, i hope the IN gets a better heli. The IN is not looking for endurance, they are looking for a medium lift heli instead of the light heli.


The heli functions well in mountains and at high altitudes. If u notice carefully, all countries the Dhruv is being marketed to are mountaineous regions. Bolivia, Chile, Nepal, Burma and Peru.

 

[blain2]

I read somewhere that the JF-17 was rammed down the unwilling Chinese Air Force throat for the same reason: "larger good".

This secured for them another air force, the PAF.

JF-17 as it stands is better than 95% of the current PLAAF. J-10 and J-11s are only available in very small numbers and have a cost factor greater than the JF-17. While most Indians carry on speculating about the reluctance of the PLAAF about acquiring the JF-17/FC-1 (based on statements on some Chinese forum by a non-Chinese aviation industry player), the facts are otherwise.

Now back on to Dhruv/ALH.

 

[BATMAN]

The Chile deal would have gone to HAL had it not been Uncle Sam's arm twisting.

Quite right, but now they twist the arm of Peru to compensate the earlier arm twisting of yours

IMO, it is unfair to complain US any more on sour Chilean wine.

 

[Goodperson]

JF-17 as it stands is better than 95% of the current PLAAF. J-10 and J-11s are only available in very small numbers and have a cost factor greater than the JF-17. While most Indians carry on speculating about the reluctance of the PLAAF about acquiring the JF-17/FC-1 (based on statements on some Chinese forum by a non-Chinese aviation industry player), the facts are otherwise.

Now back on to Dhruv/ALH.

May be true, As you said there were speculation. But

HAL securing order from Peru is a fact. Whatever discussed here is a speculation.

 

[Keysersoze]

May be true, As you said there were speculation. But

HAL securing order from Peru is a fact. Whatever discussed here is a speculation.

I guess the assertions that the Dhruv lost orders because of "arm twisting" are speculation too. And the product was imply not good enough.

I am sure Peru would love both of the helicopters as much as the Nepalese did.

 

[vish]

I guess the assertions that the Dhruv lost orders because of "arm twisting" are speculation too. And the product was imply not good enough.

The Chile deal is well known to have swung in Bell's favor due to political pressure.

I am sure Peru would love both of the helicopters as much as the Nepalese did.

Can you tell me from where exactly do you deduce that Nepal is unhappy with the Dhruv?

Quite right, but now they twist the arm of Peru to compensate the earlier arm twisting of yours

We don't have much influence over Peru; so how will we arm-twist them?

IMO, it is unfair to complain US any more on sour Chilean wine.

We ain't complaining any more; I'm contending people's assertion that Dhruv is a failure.

 

[nitesh]

I guess the assertions that the Dhruv lost orders because of "arm twisting" are speculation too. And the product was imply not good enough.

I am sure Peru would love both of the helicopters as much as the Nepalese did.

End of the day Dhruv won an order. So whatever happened in history is closed chapter