HAL scouts partner for new UAV family

[vivINDIAN]

SOURCE: SP Guide Publications

With its order books full across manned platforms, including fighters and helicopters, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has decided to take the big plunge into unmanned air systems, and wants to do it quickly in order to be ready to compete for several ongoing and anticipated tenders from Indian and foreign security agencies. For starters, HAL has invited interest from global and Indian majors in a holistic joint venture: joint development, manufacturing and marketing of a family of UAVs: a fixed-wing medium altitude long-range (MALE) UAV, fixed-wing short-range tactical UAV and a mini UAV for use at the infantry platoon level. Indications are that HAL is not purely looking for ab-initio development models, but possible deep modifications of existing platforms as well.

The company has formulated a detailed process to identify a partner and then thrash out a business model. Interestingly, HAL has asked interested vendors to suggest methods and business plans going forward on the programme. HAL is hoping to sign a deal with a partner this financial year with everything in place to begin development work.

“HAL is expanding its reach to cover new product lines. As the UAS business in India and other countries is expanding, there is a need for collaboration to face the competitive scenario,” HAL has said in its invitation to prospective vendors. The company recently held a series of meetings where chairman R.K. Tyagi stressed on the need for a sharp diversification in the company’s product portfolio. Companies that have already sat up to take notice of HAL’s interest in joint venture activity include BAE Systems, IAI, Dassault Aviation, Northrop-Grumman, EADS and others.

HAL has made detailed technical stipulations for the family of UAVs it is seeking to partner in. The medium altitude long range UAV will be a multirole platform for intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance, data relay and communications, scientific and weather forecasting, in addition to disaster management and relief coordination. The MALE UAV will be in the two tonne class, 15 metres long and with a wingspan of 30 metres, capable of deploying a payload of 500 kg, 50 hours endurance and a top speed of 500 km/h. HAL has listed the mission profiles for the short range tactical UAV as battlefield target acquisition, battlefield damage assessment, surveillance and reconnaissance and correction of artillery fire, while the smallest of the three, the mini UAV, will presumably be developed for infantry level operations by regular troops, paramiliary and special forces, including in anti-Naxal operations.

A senior MoD official confirmed HAL’s plans, and added, “HAL had identified a yawning gap in the unmanned space. This was a space that is principally being addressed by DRDO and certain other agencies, as also the private sector in a big way. Keeping with its core competencies in aerospace applications, HAL has decided that this is the next big product thrust area. The MoD has approved the move, but with conditions that HAL cannot reinvent the wheel. It is for this reason that it is looking for a suitable technology-cum-business partner either in India or abroad. If the partner is foreign, all development work and manufacture will need to be within India.”

The only unmanned vehicle that HAL currently builds is the Lakshya targetting drone, and is supplying the Chetak helicopter platform as its share in the IAI-HAL naval rotory UAV (NRUAV) programme, that has lately run into serious delays. With several current and ongoing requirements for UAVs being articulated not just by the armed forces, but also the Home Ministry-administered paramilitary forces, state police services, intelligence agencies and private security agencies, there is a potentially enormous list of contracts that HAL finds itself excluded from by virtue of not being in the UAV space.

“Manned aircraft platforms will remain HAL’s overarching focus for the foreseeable future, but the importance of unmanned systems cannot be stressed enough. It is crucial that there is a mindset shift towards understanding what unmanned systems can achieve, and there must be a paradigm shift in the way HAL approaches its development processes for the future,” HAL’s Chairman R.K. Tyagi is quoted to have told his employees earlier this year at a meeting called specifically on the new thrust areas being drawn up by the company.

 

[Raje amar]

Dfinately a wellcomed step.
The best part I liked that "all the development work and manufacturing must be carried out in India only".

 

[sancho]

Dfinately a wellcomed step.
The best part I liked that "all the development work and manufacturing must be carried out in India only".

Is it? The development and manufacturing being done in India is exactly what we already do with DRDO Rustom drones. So when we already have indigenous MALE drone developments, it's just another pointless project of HAL, that is not really needed for our forces.
If they want to offer an alternative in the same class, they should not develop a new Indian one, but team up with a foreign partner, that already has such a project going on and benefit from fast development and ToT. The BAE Mantis could be such a chance, since it's already developed and in test stage, but neither the UK nor France or any other European government seems to want it, which is our chance. Teaming up with BAE, integrating as many Indian systems as possible and producing it the the most part in India would be the better way.

 

[Raje amar]

Well I thought the Rustam is among the UAVs being put up for manufacturing by HAL. Also MOD has instructed by no to reinvent the wheel. So I blindly assumed that they will be taking help from DRDO.

 

[cirr]

So Indians are incapable of making UAVs on their own。They need foreign know-hows and technical assistances。

 

[Srinivas]

So Indians are incapable of making UAVs on their own。They need foreign know-hows and technical assistances。

we respect IP laws and do not steal the tech and make useless junk like chinese.

 

[Ankit_Pujari]

pretty old news AFAIK.
www.aame.in/2013/03/hal-looking-for-partners-to-develop-and.html
Has any company been chosen for the partnership?

@cirr
that you're ignorant, is apparent from your post
must be not worth the 50-cent you earn for each post to realise HAL, till now was primarily a manufacturing company, executing designs DRDO labs came up with

It is now itself diversifying into the R&D domain. Other DRDO-intitiated UAV programs continue in parallel.

Quantity over quality, your posts

 

[MilSpec]

Is it? The development and manufacturing being done in India is exactly what we already do with DRDO Rustom drones. So when we already have indigenous MALE drone developments, it's just another pointless project of HAL, that is not really needed for our forces.
If they want to offer an alternative in the same class, they should not develop a new Indian one, but team up with a foreign partner, that already has such a project going on and benefit from fast development and ToT. The BAE Mantis could be such a chance, since it's already developed and in test stage, but neither the UK nor France or any other European government seems to want it, which is our chance. Teaming up with BAE, integrating as many Indian systems as possible and producing it the the most part in India would be the better way.

HAL is not a government lab like DRDO, If they find there is a business case to provide alternatives to DRDO's system, they should be able to do so... I thought you were up for competition among defence equipment manufacturers?

 

[sancho]

HAL is not a government lab like DRDO, If they find there is a business case to provide alternatives to DRDO's system, they should be able to do so... I thought you were up for competition among defence equipment manufacturers?

Competition yes, that's why suggested to team up on an already existing project and customize it with Indian systems according to our needs, that would give competition and alternatives to the DRDO one, but we don't need another made in India MALE UAV, only to say HAL made one too.

 

[MilSpec]

So Indians are incapable of making UAVs on their own。They need foreign know-hows and technical assistances。

Competition yes, that's why suggested to team up on an already existing project and customize it with Indian systems according to our needs, that would give competition and alternatives to the DRDO one, but we don't need another made in India MALE UAV, only to say HAL made one too.

Cost, technology, reliability....

 

[sancho]

Cost, technology, reliability....

Means? None of this would be an advantage when HAL develops a new MALE drone or?

 

[MilSpec]

Means? None of this would be an advantage when HAL develops a new MALE drone or?

Proven manufacturing reliability and COPQ almost 1/4th of all DRDO labs combined. Warranty's and spares cost almost 1/10th of DRDO labs. And anyways when did DRDO become a defence manufacturer. After the LCA episode, I have no apprehensions if HAL wants develop it's own systems. All of us have been complaining about HAL and it's product line since ages now, so let them have autonomy in product development, distribution and marketing. Let them decentralize and work like ONGC or NTPC. Becuase in the end DRDO will bungle up the process and production design and will make cost HAL more revenue, eventually killing the appeal for the product. OR give HAL the ability to reject DRDO designs if it deems fit. For example, HAL should have the ability to ask DRDO to contract some other PSU to build it's system if it doesn't see the potential in it.

For the nth time, on the benefit vs impact, if a project has high benefit with low impact on resources, it makes sense in taking on the project, UAV's are in the same category, I would take it one step further for HAL and even go into feasibility analysis for munitions, rockets and missiles creating competitions for BDL, OFB. It's time HAL begine to push back, get strategic business partnership with Irkut and RAC and start utilizing it's facilities for export subsytems or sub contract for Russian lines.

 

[sancho]

Proven manufacturing reliability and COPQ almost 1/4th of all DRDO labs combined.

Which nobody denies, but does that justify another MALE UAV development? Obviously not! Either you say that HAL does the manufacturing of the Rustom H, because of their competence (which is likely anyway), or HAL should had proposed an alternative design in competition to the Rustom H years ago.
At this point of the Rustom H development, HAL is not competition anymore, since the forces already have decided for the Rustom H, but will be an additional development that is not needed. So why waste time and money again on a project that is not necessary?

After the LCA episode, I have no apprehensions if HAL wants develop it's own systems.

Neither have I, but why not in areas where we don't have a project running? Why not a HALE drone, like IN is asking for and where IAF surely would invest too?

All of us have been complaining about HAL and it's product line since ages now, so let them have autonomy in product development, distribution and marketing.

Because HAL is not a privat company but bound under MoD and the priority must be to develop products that our forces need, not that they can market around the world.
On the other hand as I said above, nobody will stop HAL proposing alternative designs or developments to DRDO/ADA once, when they are provided in competition to each other and from the start, not when the forces have already decided for one product.

For the nth time, on the benefit vs impact, if a project has high benefit with low impact on resources, it makes sense in taking on the project, UAV's are in the same category,

Mate repeating something that is wrong, doesn't make it right. There is no benefit in developing something that the Indian forces don't need, be it ADA/DRDOs AMCA, be it HTT40, or this HAL UAV. The earlier attempts wasted money so far but didn't get us anything and the same would be the case for HALs UAV.

HAL does not need new areas, on the contrary, they need to master their current areas first! Developing UAVs, or even ammos like you suggested, in times, where nearly all their aircraft developments are delayed and in trouble logically is not a good idea. Make it simple should be a motto for our industry, which means get these developments done first, further improve the helicopter development areas, which is the only successfull area so far, but still needs HAL to improve for the long run too (production and maintenance capabilities of Dhruv for example).

 

[MilSpec]

Mate repeating something that is wrong, doesn't make it right. There is no benefit in developing something that the Indian forces don't need, be it ADA/DRDOs AMCA, be it HTT40, or this HAL UAV. The earlier attempts wasted money so far but didn't get us anything and the same would be the case for HALs UAV.

Neither you or I are privy to the information for feasibility analysis for envisaged projects. It is my apprehension that HAL sees low impact high benefit in a UAV project and strengthen it's future portfolio, or it sees something quite wrong with Rustom.

HAL does not need new areas, on the contrary, they need to master their current areas first! Developing UAVs, or even ammos like you suggested, in times, where nearly all their aircraft developments are delayed and in trouble logically is not a good idea. Make it simple should be a motto for our industry, which means get these developments done first, further improve the helicopter development areas, which is the only successfull area so far, but still needs HAL to improve for the long run too (production and maintenance capabilities of Dhruv for example).

Highlighted line is gross oversimplification of follies commited by IAF/ MOD and blaming it on HAL. Also the aforementioned projects are under escalation, but does that mean stop development for all future portfolio's. It is evident UCAV's and UAV will be backbone of future CAS/Strike operations (your own words), HAL's interest in diversification of it's limited portfolio with positive foresight is a welcome step, to ensure it doesn't have to suffer misplanning of third party developers.

 

[sancho]

It is my apprehension that HAL sees low impact high benefit in a UAV project and strengthen it's future portfolio, or it sees something quite wrong with Rustom.

For whom? For HAL, or for the Indian forces? For the latter there is no benefit!

Highlighted line is gross oversimplification of follies commited by IAF/ MOD and blaming it on HAL.

We already discussed about IJT and I showed you that it was HAL's mistake that caused the main delays and how would you blame IAF/MoD on Saras? On LCA I always defended HAL, since ADA and DRDO are the main problems, but that doesn't mean HAL wouldn't had their share too (early radar developments for example). You making it too simple to blame IAF/MoD only and "always" take HAL out of the responsibility.

Also the aforementioned projects are under escalation, but does that mean stop development for all future portfolio's.

Who said HAL should stop future developments? But don't wast time and resources in fields that are unnecessary (basic trainer, MALE UAV, the planned AJT and at least as of today the IMRH) and master the core fields first!

It is evident UCAV's and UAV will be backbone of future CAS/Strike operations (your own words), HAL's interest in diversification of it's limited portfolio with positive foresight is a welcome step, to ensure it doesn't have to suffer misplanning of third party developers.[/quote]

Which is the reason why DRDO is developing Rustom H UAV, Rustom H armed drone and AURA UCAV and again, these projects are already decided and ready for funding. HAL is way too late to come up with an "own" alternative and that is their own fault!
As I always said, it would had been simple for HAL to use the IAI JV, the already available Kaveri engine and develop a UCAV and a HALE UAV together (IAI is searching for partners for years!). Similarly, BAE has shown the Mantis drone at Aero India years ago and HAL could have used that to form a JV as an alternative offer to DRDO's proposal.

Just to show you the problem here from a different point of you. What HAL is doing and what you are suggesting is like, the US government deciding for LM's F35 and Boeing still going to develop the X32, without a requirement only because they can, but that doesn't change the fact that the decision was already made!!!

We do need alternative offers for future projects, alternatives from the privat industry as well as from HAL, but in the initial stages of such a requirement, not when HAL feels their own need.


Btw, did you read this article?

IAF miffed with HAL for failing to keep pace with changing times

All is not well between the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), one of India's largest aerospace companies. So much so that of the USD 150 billion defence deals that IAF has planned for the next 15 years, all HAL gets will be crumbs off the table. The reason: the IAF is miffed with HAL, which has not developed into an agency that can provide the cutting-edge state-of-the-art technology to the IAF...

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...o-keep-pace-with-changing-times/1/321910.html

I think the report is too one sided, but can't be fully denied either. HAL is not doing a good job in the last few years / decades and must improve much more! That's why I'm saying to focus on the core and improvements, not on spreading to new fields and waste money or resources. Getting better does not necessarily mean getting bigger!