Hafiz saeed to challenge US bounty in international court

[notorious_eagle]

No sorry I could not attend. Could you?

I am not aware if any such meeting took place but since you made such an audacious claim, i assumed that you were part of the meeting.

There is a ton of evidence accepted by the governemnts and courts of countries other than India.

And where is that ton of evidence? Mind posting it for me because last i read never once did your government or any other foreign government officially accused the Government of Pakistan of master minding this terrorist attack.

There is a confession of a Pakistani operative in an American court of law.

There are confessions of Baloch terrorist leaders claiming they are being supplied with money and arms by RAW, should we take them for their word? Confession alone is not enough to implicate an entire State, you need rock solid evidence which is severely lacking in this case my friend.

So either provide evidence to disprove the above or take your own advice.

What evidence? Your the one who made this audacious claim, you need to prove it with facts and figures. So far i have seen nothing, only tall claims. I am not claiming anything, you are.

Dont joke man. India is always going to be Pakistan's biggest concern. As long as we are around. Or you are.

Not joking at all, we have far more serious threats facing our country than India.

I stand by my impression about the man. What one says is not necessarily what one feels or is.

He is a fanatic with Western veneer who will show his true colors sooner rather than later.

Thats your opinion and i respect it, but don't agree with it.

 

[Solomon2]

A few thoughts before I head out on vacation...

What I find most interesting in this discussion is the tone. The attitude isn't one of Muslims investigating their own to see whether he did something wrong or not but to rally to his defense, misrepresent the U.S. government's actions, demand proofs from non-Muslims, and, when these are received, rewind back to the beginning.

I presume these dissimulation and mental distortions are what happens in a community consisting almost entirely of Pakistani Muslims: choosing the path of strife with non-Muslims, and then once these are gone, picking fights within one's own community to divide it further, to one's personal profit and supposed glory, until the stronger oppress the weaker, who must then join the oppressors, or else walk on eggshells. Essentially, Pakistanis have given up civil rule for, in a word, barbarism.

Western history of the past two hundred years shows that there are better ways to live and think than this. You can be sure I'll cite this thread when people ask me what could possibly go wrong when becoming a Muslim.

 

[Armstrong]

An interesting watch :

 

[Developereo]

A few thoughts before I head out on vacation...

What I find most interesting in this discussion is the tone. The attitude isn't one of Muslims investigating their own to see whether he did something wrong or not but to rally to his defense, misrepresent the U.S. government's actions, demand proofs from non-Muslims, and, when these are received, rewind back to the beginning.

I presume these dissimulation and mental distortions are what happens in a community consisting almost entirely of Pakistani Muslims: choosing the path of strife with non-Muslims, and then once these are gone, picking fights within one's own community to divide it further, to one's personal profit and supposed glory, until the stronger oppress the weaker, who must then join the oppressors, or else walk on eggshells. Essentially, Pakistanis have given up civil rule for, in a word, barbarism.

Western history of the past two hundred years shows that there are better ways to live and think than this. You can be sure I'll cite this thread when people ask me what could possibly go wrong when becoming a Muslim.

Most of us have studiously avoided any religious angles and focused on legal issues.

You have a tendency to see everything from a religious perspective and paint with a broad brush. Not surprisingly, really, from an Israeli apologist, given that the standard Israeli rule-book invokes religion as a primary line of defence to discredit all criticism as anti-Semitism.

 

[vsdoc]

I am not aware if any such meeting took place but since you made such an audacious claim, i assumed that you were part of the meeting.

When you ***UME something notorious, you make an *** out of U and ME. (Credit: Silence of the Lambs)

Don't assume. Prove or disprove.

And where is that ton of evidence? Mind posting it for me

Not worth the effort as proven earlier in the thread by one of your compatriots and a fellow Think Tank (one would expect better, but I guess you take what you have).

You guys have one end so deep in the sand, its no fun speaking to the other.

So far i have seen nothing, only tall claims. I am not claiming anything, you are.

To see you need to open your eyes.

But first you need to get your head out of the sand.

Then you need to recognize that its only the ego of a Pakistani not wanting to accept than an Indian was right all along that prevents you from still seeing the blatantly obvious.

I do not believe that MOST of you actually support what this scum and his chain of command both ways did to our innocents.

I also believe that MOST of you realise that you have a number of such loose cannons amongst you that need to magically disappear (but NOT at Indian behest - NO SIR, that would hurt our Pakistani pride!) for you fear that you are ONE international terror strike from loosing by concerted FORCE all current charades of SOVEREIGNTY.

Not joking at all, we have far more serious threats facing our country than India.

Maybe your Generals did not get the memo. Check out your troop deployments. Are they playing gilli-danda?

Thats your opinion and i respect it, but don't agree with it.

I'm cool with you not respecting it as well. I'm seldom wrong when it comes to my gut, and I know a fanatic fundamentalist when I see one.

 

[Developereo]

notorious,

Not worth the effort as proven earlier in the thread by one of your compatriots and a fellow Think Tank (one would expect better, but I guess you take what you have).

I think he is talking about the case where it was reported that the court convicted HS with no evidence, purely on Kasab's testimony.

The Indian media brainwashing is so utterly thorough, they are willing to suspend due process in a mad blood-lust.

 

[vsdoc]

notorious,

I think he is talking about the case where it was reported that the court convicted HS with no evidence, purely on Kasab's testimony.

The Indian media brainwashing is so utterly thorough, they are willing to suspend due process in a mad blood-lust.

Wrong case Developero. That helps, but its an Indian court. And you are Pakistanis.

Its like asking asking an Indian to believe that Pakistanis are peaceful, open minded, forward looking, democratic and secular at heart, and actually care for and want whats best for Kashmiris in particular and Indian Muslims at large.

Try the one in the US where Headley implicated directly and in pretty sordid detail the ISI.

 

[Developereo]

Wrong case Developero. That helps, but its an Indian court. And you are Pakistanis.

Its like asking asking an Indian to believe that Pakistanis are peaceful, open minded, forward looking, democratic and secular at heart, and actually care for and want whats best for Kashmiris in particular and Indian Muslims at large.

Try the one in the US where Headley implicated directly and in pretty sordid detail the ISI.

OK, never mind. I wasn't following the other discussion. I thought this discussion was about HS, so assumed the first case.

 

[POPS]

Wrong case Developero. That helps, but its an Indian court. And you are Pakistanis.

Its like asking asking an Indian to believe that Pakistanis are peaceful, open minded, forward looking, democratic and secular at heart, and actually care for and want whats best for Kashmiris in particular and Indian Muslims at large.

Try the one in the US where Headley implicated directly and in pretty sordid detail the ISI.

sorry to inerrupt but i think here its just the "zionist" propogenda or something....owr dear freinds will never ever admit the truth no matter who says it or how many facts are present to rectify it ...to them its all fabricated & evil yaindoo & Zionist cnspiracy against muslims & specially the land of the pure

 

[vsdoc]

OK, never mind. I wasn't following the other discussion. I thought this discussion was about HS, so assumed the first case.

Headley implicated the scum also Developero. You can thus stay in this discussion as well.

All roads eventually lead to PAKISTAN.

You guys must be SO proud!

 

[Developereo]

Headley implicated the scum also Developero.

Implicated how? Actual physical evidence or just testimony?

I agree that testimony can be enough for an indictment (which is all that the international community has agreed to), but conviction requires more than that.

 

[vsdoc]

Implicated how? Actual physical evidence or just testimony?

I agree that testimony can be enough for an indictment (which is all that the international community has agreed to), but conviction requires more than that.

I don't know man.

I doubt the reaper will appreciate the difference or care either way.

And somehow I suspect, neither will the scum.

And the souls of 166 innocent men, women, and children who were brutally killed and families stunned into mourning overnight will not either.

I am related by blood to one of the young Taj chefs who was found dead by the poolside btw ... after refusing to escape hours earlier so that he could stay with the scared guests and even make all of them sandwiches ..... if it means something to you.

 

[Developereo]

I don't know man.

I doubt the reaper will appreciate the difference or care either way.

And somehow I suspect, neither will the scum.

And the souls of 166 innocent men, women, and children who were brutally killed and families stunned into mourning overnight will not either.

I am related by blood to one of the young Taj cooks who was found dead by the poolside btw ... after refusing to escape hours earlier and staying with the guests and even making all of them sandwiches ..... if it means something to you.

I can understand that you guys would react emotionally, but that's no way to do justice. In fact, it is precisely these highly charged cases that test the mettle of the justice system. The US has a habit of using drones to bypass due process -- that's one of the perks of being a superpower.

 

[EjazR]

A few thoughts before I head out on vacation...

What I find most interesting in this discussion is the tone. The attitude isn't one of Muslims investigating their own to see whether he did something wrong or not but to rally to his defense, misrepresent the U.S. government's actions, demand proofs from non-Muslims, and, when these are received, rewind back to the beginning.

I presume these dissimulation and mental distortions are what happens in a community consisting almost entirely of Pakistani Muslims: choosing the path of strife with non-Muslims, and then once these are gone, picking fights within one's own community to divide it further, to one's personal profit and supposed glory, until the stronger oppress the weaker, who must then join the oppressors, or else walk on eggshells. Essentially, Pakistanis have given up civil rule for, in a word, barbarism.

Western history of the past two hundred years shows that there are better ways to live and think than this. You can be sure I'll cite this thread when people ask me what could possibly go wrong when becoming a Muslim.

Solomon this not about Muslims, but about Pakistanis.

On top of that, I may add that there are even the much maligned Salafi Pakistanis who ACTUALLY know what HAfiz Saeed has been involved in and are fed up of him and have taken out protest processions against him. The problem is that he is a puppet of the PA/ISI and hence he will be protected.

Did Pakistan ask for evidence from the US when Khalid Sheikh Muhammad was handed over to the US? No courts were invoked and he was quietly handed over. There are many other Pakistani citizens like Afia Siddiquie and others who would not have been handed over to the US other than foriegn terrorists without the involvement of Pakistani agencies.

Don't know if you understand Hindi/Urdu but you will see in the thread below video evidence of Pakistani Salafis protesting against Hafiz Saeed calling him not just a terrorist but also an agency puppet and a embezzler of charity funds.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-hadees-pakistan-protest-against-jud-let.html

 

[Rig Vedic]

The bounty is good but the larger picture is the state apparatus that sustains Hafiz Saeed and his ilk, the network of Madrassas, the radicalized curriculum in the schools, and the psychological insecurity of nations that have lost their civilizational roots.