Hafiz saeed to challenge US bounty in international court

[Safriz]

 

[Vinod2070]

the tactics and emotions these indians display on PDF is truly mindbogglingly entertaining, i must say

you do know i actually hail from Parachinar right? what does HS or JuD have to do with Parachinar?


i can certainly vouch for the fact that some members of Difa e Pakistan (and some of its supporters) do hail from sectarian groups like Sipahe Sahaba (a banned outfit). But then again, before blowing tooting that horn of yours you perhaps overlooked the post where i ridiculed DeP for mixing religion emotions with a purely political agenda -- as such a thing causes confusions.

again -- for the umpteenth time......Lahore High Court -- the court with jurisdiction in this matter - acquitted HS on terrorism charges....the evidence needed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt his guilt was not provided to the prosecution.


the indians seem to prefer resting their hopeless heads on the lap of uncle sam, hoping he would be able to cajole Pakistan into blindly doing what they want us to do.....i heard that silly looking foreign minister of theirs was cheering and wagging his tail when the bounty was announced

Regarding your touching faith in Pakistani courts, I have to repeat what I have already done a few times here.

At the Multan DPC rally on February 17, Khatm-e-Nabuwat leaders bayed for Ahmadi blood while sharing the stage with the famed Malik Ishaq, a self-acclaimed Shia-killer. Newspaper reports say Ishaq was freed last year after frightened judges treated him like a guest in the courtroom, offering him tea and biscuits. One judge attempted to hide his face with his hands. But after Ishaq read out the names of his children, the judge abandoned the trial.

We have also seen how freely your judges handle the many blasphemy cases, totally ignoring the pressure from the fanatics firing in the air!

Who are you trying to kid?

What world of fantasy are you living in? You still think you have a long rope to try the shenanigans!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I doubt this Administration cares, nor are the bounties "symbolic" - you know better than that, AZ

.

in this case i would opine that it is symbolic......a mathematical approach as well

Just because what Saeed did doesn't violate Pakistan's laws doesn't get him off the hook.

well i think the fact that he's roaming freely is enough to convince me that the court with jurisdiction (an independent and respected one) felt that his detention was illegal sans formal and substantiated charges

substantiated is the key word here

That's not the issue here.

it is the single biggest issue here

Lets forget and toss aside india for a second since it's a ''democracy'' on paper only......Aren't suspected criminals in America also afforded due process? Dont you think that after Gitmo Bay, America needs to revamp and revitalize its image as a democracy that believes in a justice system whereby even the most seasoned criminals or suspected criminals be provided legal council before a courtroom and whereby the courts prove beyond a reasonable doubt (based on witness testimony, evidence, etc.) a suspect's guilt?

I dont want you to mistake me as supporting HS because I can only assure you in writing that I am not. He has little to offer Pakistan and has at times invited un-necessary attention (for e.g. when he claimed that OBL is a martyr -- which is a hard idea to sell to the average Pakistani)

But I'm a man of principle and I dont believe it's appropriate for my fellow citizens -- even ''suspect'' ones -- to be branded as terrorists without proper evidence and in the absence of any legal procedures (i.e. the norm)

The question isn't the evidence but the fact that what Saeed did and continues to do violates international laws that Pakistan has vowed to implement but has not done so; indeed, at this time, the FM is in a roundabout way declining jurisdiction.

Pakistan violated the norms by placing him under house arrest in the absence of proof......the U.S. applied pressure on Pakistan at that time; however since then the LHC exonerated HS.

therefore, it's difficult to see how Pakistan is violating international laws.....as for jurisdiction -- Pakistan being a member-state of the UN and a signatory of several treaties (admittedly, we have no extradition treaty with US though there have been documented cases where terrorism suspects were handed over sans charges) would cooperate with investigators if and when cooperation is required. The evidence must be provided first.

interestingly, Pakistan sent a team of investigators to hindustan for consultation with their counterparts across the border....unfortunately, the indians chose to waste our time and the investigators returned to Pakistan with nothing in hand, disappointed by india's inept inability to cooperate in a professional fashion.


if theyre trying to see the man behind bars -- well -- it's their loss, no?


blind requests that show blatant disregard (and contempt) of our court-rooms' rulings are unacceptable, and will not be tolerated....

neither is the ISI ''funding'' groups like JuD (which survive solely on zakat or other private donations nationally, internationally) nor does the ISI have (or need to) have contact with someone like HS


i believe the indians came up with a '''Major Iqbal -- top secret agent of the ISI''


no such name or individual exists in Pakistan


instead of acting like ********, act professional. You'll get a professional response in kind.

 

[Avatar]

Hell no! India made LeT itself by opression in Kashmir, now clean that up yourself.

Just like India made the sun to grow rice in the fields.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The ignorant fanboys with little knowledge of how the world works but only aware of their negative identity will only exacerbate the movement to that abyss.

sounds like you're describing those people of yours on your side.....

how is it that an MBA candidate is lecturing you on legalities and how courts work....you bhartis need to learn to utilize your brains (for a change)

 

[Vinod2070]

well i think the fact that he's roaming freely is enough to convince me that the court with jurisdiction (an independent and respected one) felt that his detention was illegal sans formal and substantiated charges

Even "the famed Malik Ishaq, a self-acclaimed Shia-killer" is roaming free. Not because the "the court with jurisdiction (an independent and respected one) felt that his detention was illegal [/B]sans formal and substantiated charges"!

But because he named the judges children and the judge was too scared.

This was in a case where Pakistani Shia had been butchered and the incentive to try the butcher was presumably more.

Now think of the case when the deep state is complicit!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The FM has issued a statement which carefully skirts the issue of Saeed's guilt and jurisdiction. link

Do you know what the next step is, Abu Zolfiqar?

i do.....

the onus is on you (and the indians you have sitting by your knees) to provide the proof


the LHC would surely act -- since there'd be a lot of expectations on them (inside and outside) to do so.


the funny thing is you people actually think HS is popular and commands respect throughout the country......yes him and the so-called ''defence of Pakistan council'' (that in itself a comical name) are using politics to get peoples' emotions stirred....but then again, things got emotional when people we call allies attack our soldiers while they are fast asleep; or when ''contractors'' go rogue and become trigger happy in our streets (people we later FREED despite public outcry)


i agree with HS on one thing....the Americans are the ones who are fanning anti-American sentiment in the ENTIRE region (literally).

the Americans are eager to see the NATO supply routes be re-opened. This is America's way of applying pressure on Pakistan to act. If the supply routes opened tomorrow, we'd never even be hearing about this guy Saeed


Pakistan is a responsible country and when there is proof of terrorists lurking our streets (we know they exist, since we are under constant threat as well) we will act undoubtedly.


blind requests, media trials, threats, bribes, propaganda ---these will not be tolerated. That isnt how to gain cooperation, that's only how to gain middle finger.

Now think of the case when the deep state is complicit!

ladies and gentlemen -- i present to you Kamran Shafi's long lost intern

 

[Solomon2]

i do.....

the onus is on you (and the indians you have sitting by your knees) to provide the proof -

No, all that's been done. All the requirements for Saeed's arrest under international law via treaties Pakistan has signed have been fulfilled. The locals having declined to undertake enforcement extraterritoriality applies.

The next step is for the U.S. to invade Pakistan!

 

[Bond]

Common Vinod Bhai.. you are expecting too much from people whoc can hide worlds Most wanted Man and mass murderer under government / millitary protection...

nothing is going to change.. Pakistan will keep on harboring terriorists and keep getting bitten in the a$$ ... It is all about ideology...

Even "the famed Malik Ishaq, a self-acclaimed Shia-killer" is roaming free. Not because the "the court with jurisdiction (an independent and respected one) felt that his detention was illegal [/B]sans formal and substantiated charges"!

But because he named the judges children and the judge was too scared.

This was in a case where Pakistani Shia had been butchered and the incentive to try the butcher was presumably more.

Now think of the case when the deep state is complicit!

 

[Vinod2070]

sounds like you're describing those people of yours on your side.....

how is it that an MBA candidate is lecturing you on legalities and how courts work....you bhartis need to learn to utilize your brains (for a change)

You are just a funny person to me. One who uses his brain so little. (Or may be makes the best of what mother nature could offer him).

I can't even begin to detail out your delusions here. Let me just say you are cut off from reality.

 

[Rana4pak]

No, all that's been done. All the requirements for Saeed's arrest under international law via treaties Pakistan has signed have been fulfilled. The locals having declined to undertake enforcement extraterritoriality applies.

The next step is for the U.S. to invade Pakistan!

the next step for tailban is to start sucide bombing in US

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

No, all that's been done. All the requirements for Saeed's arrest under international law via treaties Pakistan has signed have been fulfilled. The locals having declined to undertake enforcement extraterritoriality applies.

The next step is for the U.S. to invade Pakistan!

unless there is cooperation with our courts, i see no other feasible choice....


go for it

 

[Bond]

yep ... back to the ideology... great going...

the next step for tailban is to start sucide bombing in US

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You are just a funny person to me. One who uses his brain so little. (Or may be makes the best of what mother nature could offer him).

I can't even begin to detail out your delusions here. Let me just say you are cut off from reality.

sorry you feel that way kid, wish i could help you....which part of my argument did you take such offense to?


it seems mother nature is calling at your end, and the best thing i could recommend for you would be some tampons and some privacy!

 

[Solomon2]

unless there is cooperation with our courts, i see no other feasible choice....go for it

Pakistan's courts don't do anything because they don't recognize Pakistan's international obligations if they aren't explicitly incorporated into Pakistani law. International relations recognizes no such barrier. The Secretary-General has been bugging the Pakistani government for years about this to no avail. Now the chickens come home to roost.

Unlike the OBL operation, I think the "invasion" - an armed team of thirty minimum, I imagine - should be sent as openly, publicly, and politely as possible. Either Pakistani officials can aid them or thwart them, it should all be public. If the team is aided, all will be well; if thwarted, Pakistan sets itself directly in violation of international laws - from that point a quick trip to Pakistan's designation as a terror state, cutoff of trade and aid, and subsequent political collapse.

I don't see why the U.S. should retain any qualms about embarrassing Pakistanis in public and shaming the entire nation, do you?