Had warned Pakistan of consequences if IAF pilot not returned.

[criticalerror]

What else is a diplomatic win? Let's see. Given India's overtly aggressive designs against us, having them removed from FATF adjudication panel? Highlighting India's War Mania in the General Assembly of the United Nations? Starting a resolution calling for an arms embargo on India for destroying regional peace through irresponsible behavior? If I need to explain this to you, then I am losing interest in this debate already. And I have nowhere talked about keeping him. I am only advocating to release him under iron clad guarantees that suit our own interests.

If you think the US is not complicit in placing us on the grey list, and aggressive diplomacy alone can save us from that, then you are correct. I am losing interest as well. Indian atrocities have been highlighted at every level but if the game is rigged by the US against you, what possibly could you achieve diplomatically? You think we could change the entire geo-strategic game against us by just playing the Indian war hysteria card? Overly simplistic and foolish is what i would call that. And what iron-clad guarantees can you get from a neighbour who doesn’t adhere to any pacts we ve made. You think they will not turn on you the moment they get their pilot back, you are deluded.

 

[CriticalThought]

If you think the US is not complicit in placing us on the grey list, and aggressive diplomacy alone can save us from that, then you are correct. I am losing interest as well. Indian atrocities have been highlighted at every level but if the game is rigged by the US against you, what possibly could you achieve diplomatically? You think we could change the entire geo-strategic game against us by just playing the Indian war hysteria card? Overly simplistic and foolish is what i would call that. And what iron-clad guarantees can you get from a neighbour who doesn’t adhere to any pacts we ve made. You think they will not turn on you the moment they get their pilot back, you are deluded.

No you are trying hard to justify the status quo. Did I say you would succeed in turning around the rigged game? The difference is between standing up for your rights vs acting like a slave. But at least you have now admitted the game is rigged and we are powerless to change it. Thus is an admission you cannot go back on. So now tell me, isn't Modi in his full rights to brag about pushing us into a corner and making us a nobody on the international level? I am frankly admitting this reality and overly zealous countrymen including yourself are trying to construct castles in clouds.

 

[criticalerror]

No you are trying hard to justify the status quo. Did I say you would succeed in turning around the rigged game? The difference is between standing up for your rights vs acting like a slave. But at least you have now admitted the game is rigged and we are powerless to change it. Thus is an admission you cannot go back on. So now tell me, isn't Modi in his full rights to brag about pushing us into a corner and making us a nobody on the international level? I am frankly admitting this reality and overly zealous countrymen including yourself are trying to construct castles in clouds.

Yeah if you wont succeed than you are better served applying your strategies elsewhere. And your childish attempts to twist my words are laughable at best. What can’t i go back on? If you didnt know the US was complicit even in the attack on 26th, you have much to learn first. Also I don’t know where you got your fact that modi has pushed us into a corner internationally from. The New york times ( mouthpiece of the US establishment) article is quite an eye opener if you read it. Their narrative crashed on the international stage. Please enlighten us all how modi has cornered us? Over zealous is your pursuit of projecting incompetency when there was none.

 

[Hareeb]

The pace at which Indians are changing facts, ten years onwards they will be claiming IAF shoot down X no. of PAF jets and captured their pilots.

 

[CriticalThought]

Yeah if you wont succeed than you are better served applying your strategies elsewhere.

Defeatest attitude and mentality.

And your childish attempts to twist my words are laughable at best. What can’t i go back on? If you didnt know the US was complicit even in the attack on 26th, you have much to learn first.

Dont try to hide behind accusations of naivete. Be a man and accept what you wrote earlier.

Also I don’t know where you got your fact that modi has pushed us into a corner internationally from. The New york times ( mouthpiece of the US establishment) article is quite an eye opener if you read it. Their narrative crashed on the international stage. Please enlighten us all how modi has cornered us? Over zealous is your pursuit of projecting incompetency when there was none.

Let me spoon feed you. Yes, America is our mortal enemy. But Modi's masterstroke is in aligning himself with our enemy at a time of extreme geo-political turmoil and playing his cards well. He saw an opportunity and seized it. Contrast with our defeatest leadership who had an opportunity in Abhinandan and squandered it under international pressure. But that's not it. To rub salt into our wounds, they lodged a complaint of ecological terrorism in an ineffective arm of the UN. This is outright treason against Pakistan and its vested interests. And here you are defending them like a monkey.

 

[criticalerror]

Defeatest attitude and mentality.



Dont try to hide behind accusations of naivete. Be a man and accept what you wrote earlier.



Let me spoon feed you. Yes, America is our mortal enemy. But Modi's masterstroke is in aligning himself with our enemy at a time of extreme geo-political turmoil and playing his cards well. He saw an opportunity and seized it. Contrast with our defeatest leadership who had an opportunity in Abhinandan and squandered it under international pressure. But that's not it. To rub salt into our wounds, they lodged a complaint of economic terrorism in an ineffective arm of the UN. This is outright treason against Pakistan and its vested interests. And here you are defending them like a monkey.

Spoonfeeding BS doesn’t change the nature of BS. It was no achievement of Modi to align with the US. The US needed a policeman to counter China. Now you can award this achievement to Modi all you want. It was the US interest that aligned. Otherwise Modi was even banned from entering the US. Why didnt Modi use his vedic superpowers of persuasion then? What you are calling defeatist is steeped in practicality .

Also FATF complaint was lodged last year. So how you linked AbhiNoneDone with that can only be explained by you.

I am not defending like a monkey. On the contrary i am trying to cure a case of rabies causing you to froth at the mouth. Seriously, when the insults start , you know the debate is over.

 

[graphican]

And Modi forgot to warn Pakistan for Kulbhushan's return altogether? Somebody tell those retard Indians that they shouldn't be fooled this easy.

 

[CriticalThought]

Spoonfeeding BS doesn’t change the nature of BS. It was no achievement of Modi to align with the US. The US needed a policeman to counter China. Now you can award this achievement to Modi all you want. It was the US interest that aligned. Otherwise Modi was even banned from entering the US. Why didnt Modi use his vedic superpowers of persuasion then? What you are calling defeatist is steeped in practicality .

Also FATF complaint was lodged last year. So how you linked AbhiNoneDone with that can only be explained by you.

I am not defending like a monkey. On the contrary i am trying to cure a case of rabies causing you to froth at the mouth. Seriously, when the insults start , you know the debate is over.

For the record, you started with accusation of childishness.

Practical is making use of the opportunities you are given. Defeatest is smartly saluting American Diktats even at the cost of national interests. We needed to show spine in the face of international pressure and get the world to agree with our point of view. Under an Indian threat of war, we failed miserably. While our Foreign Minister was seen repeating the Mantra of Peace like someone working the beads of a rosary, India projected aggression. The outcome? You are still grey listed for financing terrorism, and India enjoys the status of peaceful nation. Let's turn the tables. Just recently we had our Jawans Martyred in Baluchistan. In a hypothetical world, if Pakistan bombs India in retaliation with solid proofs of involvement, what would happen? There would be a resolution moved in the Security Council. You would acquire the status of a pariah nation. Nations would pull away investments from you. This is called a diplomatic victory. This contrast should highlight the impotence of our lame leadership.

 

[BATMAN]

And Modi forgot to warn Pakistan for Kulbhushan's return altogether? Somebody tell those retard Indians that they shouldn't be fooled this easy.

May be not a single indian is fooled but what about all of west and Iran? They only read the news and believe whatever modi says. Why should they come to defence.pk to hear the explanations we give.
If we have objection or denial, our leadership should go out in tomorrow's press.
Now is the time for SMQ to explain his vision of 'in good faith'

 

[prashantazazel]

Never trust a politician.

 

[BATMAN]

Practical is making use of the opportunities you are given.

I can tell you, with all the experience and events we faced, my reply to US would be 'stop interfering in Pakistani affairs, if you can't do anything to demobilize Indian army from war posture' no promises of returning pilot in any given time frame.

Never trust a politician.

In your case it's opposite... 'never trust IAF'

 

[criticalerror]

For the record, you started with accusation of childishness.

Practical is making use of the opportunities you are given. Defeatest is smartly saluting American Diktats even at the cost of national interests. We needed to show spine in the face of international pressure and get the world to agree with our point of view. Under an Indian threat of war, we failed miserably. While our Foreign Minister was seen repeating the Mantra of Peace like someone working the beads of a rosary, India projected aggression. The outcome? You are still grey listed for financing terrorism, and India enjoys the status of peaceful nation. Let's turn the tables. Just recently we had our Jawans Martyred in Baluchistan. In a hypothetical world, if Pakistan bombs India in retaliation with solid proofs of involvement, what would happen? There would be a resolution moved in the Security Council. You would acquire the status of a pariah nation. Nations would pull away investments from you. This is called a diplomatic victory. This contrast should highlight the impotence of our lame leadership.

For the record, that was you twisting my words for your benefit to which i responded. But lets move on.

You have yet to provide one example of how we can counter US on the international stage diplomatically. That’s because whether you like it our not, you cannot in the current scenario. The US is well and truly the only “jis ki lathi us ki behns”. So that is a reality, hence why i linked it to practicality. All you can do is defend yourself because the US dictates the entire world’s geopolitics. You can only beat the enemy once you accept their ability. The US can dispatch us several times over. Whether diplomatically or militarily or both. So i see only jingoism when someone screams don’t bow to US diktat and get in their faces. We can only smartly counter their diktat at best.


Under Indian threat of war, we gave them a bloody nose. That’s all we can do sadly, owing to the state of our economy. You and I both know, we can’t afford a full blown war , not at this time where we are trying to sort the mess that is our economy. So what options does that leave us with? Respond but not escalate to full blown war. That we did.

As for why India achieves the diplomatic victory in your hypothesis, please refer to my earlier explanation of why India is being glorified. It is the same situation when Pakistan was helping the US in Afghan war. When the US was aligned with us then, do you think it’ was Pakistani diplomatic victory? Nope.

You keep bringing up the grey list and keep ignoring the fact that it was in the last Govt that we were added to that grey list. How you link it to the current scenario is what escapes me.

 

[Kaniska]

Thats why I said we should not have returned monkey so soon.....

@Windjammer @Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER @BHarwana

Now Chimp cashing this...

You may not like it...but returning the pilot so easily can be interpreted differently by diff groups...
Personally i believe, Pakistan done a good job in avoidance of continuation of war by returning pilot..But it is perceived as sign where Pakistan is not ready to continue war...

 

[alb4kistani]

modi ki border peh ultay beth gaye thay apni toop ka rukh Pakistan ki tarar kar keh

 

[Cash GK]

It worked well for both sides.
While we had the control to make it work well only for Pakistan.
BTW, don't forget pilot was not captured by IK or PTI worker. He was in Pak custody because of armed forces risking their lives for us.



They proven wrong because we said otherwise.
That's the only case where ISPR will not come out and say modi is lying.

My army and country comes first then pti...we won it together..first time our government and aramy work together and look at the results..you will not find ik against his country..ik is Pakistan..