H6K for Pakistan Strategic Forces

[maverick1977]

Not again... This topic was discussed to death by almost every recognizable name on this forum....

If we had a naval base in Oman/Yemen/Somalia, Having H-6Ks stationed there would have freaked out whole of IN from Indian ocean till hormouz strait...

@Mangus Ortus Novem @aliyusuf

Can you point to the previous thread? we are discussing how H6K can be employed like Feb27 rol to tilt the battle field... 100-150km permiter from H6K is with fighter aircrafts with BVR of 60+kms for figther sweep, H6K with RAAD ALCM 600kms plus firing salvo of 8 to 10 per aircraft at enemy targets.

 

[aliyusuf]

Not again... This topic was discussed to death by almost every recognizable name on this forum....

If we had a naval base in Oman/Yemen/Somalia, Having H-6Ks stationed there would have freaked out whole of IN from Indian ocean till hormouz strait...

@Mangus Ortus Novem @aliyusuf

In my humble opinion, the cost of establishing ancillary support assets required to help the H6K complete it's mission ... on top of acquiring the H6K ... and finally the operational costs of all these assets ... are absolutely prohibitively too expensive to even think about it. Only the major powers like the USA, Russia and China have the wherewithal to operate such assets. Here we are saying that a Sukhoi, Eagle or a Super Hornet would be too expensive to acquire of and then operate ... acquiring H6 class bird and it's support crafts and then maintaining them all ... would be almost a financial heresy to even think of such a folly.


After-Thought:
However, if we can pull off a Miracle ... and be able to acuire all that and then acquire the funds to operate them ... it will certainly make India ... and even Israel ... sweat.

 

[Basel]

We need Destroyers with Long Range SAMs. India has about 14 Destroyers. We need about 6 Type 052Ds.

I would give H6Ks to Pakistan Navy for Anti Ship Role

It can perform both long range Anti Ship / Anti Sub and Land attack with SOWs.

 

[maverick1977]

b52 will not be used against Russia, it would be stealth bomber..h-6 has no utility against India except in can perhaps provide long-range cruise missile vehicle

it will be used, they are all armed in LR cruise missiles AGM86s... 1500km. B52 can carry three times tonnage of H6K/N ..... 60,000 pounds of ammo..

 

[Basel]

Can you point to the previous thread? we are discussing how H6K can be employed like Feb27 rol to tilt the battle field... 100-150km permiter from H6K is with fighter aircrafts with BVR of 60+kms for figther sweep, H6K with RAAD ALCM 600kms plus firing salvo of 8 to 10 per aircraft at enemy targets.

Using H-6K for launching 600km land attack CM is not Worth it, at least 1000km range ALCM will make it deadly.

Now if PAF flying 2000km away parallel from Indian coast with 3000km range ALCM then how much deadly it could become and big headache to IN and IAF as they have to allocate resources to tackle that threat.

 

[StormBreaker]

In my humble opinion, the cost of establishing ancillary support assets required to help the H6K complete it's mission ... on top of acquiring the H6K ... and finally the operational costs of all these assets ... are absolutely prohibitively too expensive to even think about it. Only the major powers like the USA, Russia and China have the wherewithal to operate such assets. Here we are saying that a Sukhoi, Eagle or a Super Hornet would be too expensive to acquire of and then operate ... acquiring H6 class bird and it's support crafts and then maintaining them all ... would be almost a financial heresy to even think of such a folly.


After-Thought:
However, if we can pull off a Miracle ... and be able to acuire all that and then acquire the funds to operate them ... it will certainly make India ... and even Israel ... sweat.

My suggestion was purely based upon a scenario that Pakistan has a stable and growing economy, Military budget is around $15-18bn, Then only one can become a power with influence over nearby countries especially GCC and more specifically bargain a base in Yemen coast or Oman.

If we had participated in Yemen conflict, We would have got the opportunity to establish a base in port city where KSA and UAE have interests possibly, in Yemen.

@MastanKhan

Can you point to the previous thread? we are discussing how H6K can be employed like Feb27 rol to tilt the battle field... 100-150km permiter from H6K is with fighter aircrafts with BVR of 60+kms for figther sweep, H6K with RAAD ALCM 600kms plus firing salvo of 8 to 10 per aircraft at enemy targets.

Those 4-5 content rich pages are possibly sandwiched between in some thread, possibly 27 Feb thread

 

[maverick1977]

Using H-6K for launching 600km land attack CM is not Worth it, at least 1000km range ALCM will make it deadly.

Now if PAF flying 2000km away parallel from Indian coast with 3000km range ALCM then how much deadly it could become and big headache to IN and IAF as they have to allocate resources to tackle that threat.

Basel, building on your point, just the threat on H6K will require them to allocate assets like MKIs in the southern hemisphere. if you couple that with Marine landing capability with Wasp type carriers, punjab front can be successfully defended.

In my humble opinion, the cost of establishing ancillary support assets required to help the H6K complete it's mission ... on top of acquiring the H6K ... and finally the operational costs of all these assets ... are absolutely prohibitively too expensive to even think about it. Only the major powers like the USA, Russia and China have the wherewithal to operate such assets. Here we are saying that a Sukhoi, Eagle or a Super Hornet would be too expensive to acquire of and then operate ... acquiring H6 class bird and it's support crafts and then maintaining them all ... would be almost a financial heresy to even think of such a folly.


After-Thought:
However, if we can pull off a Miracle ... and be able to acuire all that and then acquire the funds to operate them ... it will certainly make India ... and even Israel ... sweat.

Add another afterthought to it. Delivering massive amount of munition from a stand off capability, lets jsut say to @StormBreaker point with 1000km ALCMs can cause massive headaches to the region as far as Western Europe

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

If we had participated in Yemen conflict, We would have got the opportunity to establish a base in port city where KSA and UAE have interests possibly, in Yemen.

LOL

 

[fitpOsitive]

Folks, lets be honest to ourselves. Pakistan need deep strike heavy load strike group that can carry 12 tons of ammunition and can strike enemy naval assets and southern tips with maximum punch or their concentrated forces ... H6K can do that job for Navy and for strategic deployment. With 3000 miles extended radius with refueling probe carrying 12 tons of weapons cruise missiles and anti ship weapons this beast can destroy enemy from far away.

its a mere discussion, wants to see how this beast can be deployed by Pakistan?

http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/h6k.htm

What is a cost of basic unit?

 

[maverick1977]

What is a cost of basic unit?

$30M... with operational cost per year i will say add $3-$5M operational cost per year per plane.. upfront cost 1Billion for 2 squardons, $150M operational cost per year, but capability to deliver 1Mill tons of ammo per sortie..

Streching enemy lines and moving their air assets far south to defend their airspace.

$30M... with operational cost per year i will say add $3-$5M operational cost per year per plane.. upfront cost 1Billion for 2 squardons, $150M operational cost per year, but capability to deliver 1Mill tons of ammo per sortie..

Streching enemy lines and moving their air assets far south to defend their airspace.

I will always say folks, Feb27 has shown that Pakistan is an offensive force, they need to develop more tactics and come out of the clout of defensive force.

 

[WarKa DaNG]

We need a missile with minimum range of 300 Km in anti shipping role for the H6K, in event of war the aircraft carrier will be performing with its Mig 29K and the H6K needs to stay out of their aircover

 

[ziaulislam]

it will be used, they are all armed in LR cruise missiles AGM86s... 1500km. B52 can carry three times tonnage of H6K/N ..... 60,000 pounds of ammo..

So is the cost of putting boasters to say 1000 (babur)cruise missles higher vs acquring,operating 40 h6s(to have 50% operational capacity).. That are vulnerable given IAF overall size...
Enduarance & cost favours dedicated MPA for sea roles..

 

[aziqbal]

H6K and other variants are basically are a stop gap until Chinese bombers become available

they are not very good aircraft

and would add nothing to Pakistan

since we have JF17 with stand off weapons

we are not going to bomb Australia or Europe we dont need Bombers

 

[MastanKhan]

In my humble opinion, the cost of establishing ancillary support assets required to help the H6K complete it's mission ... on top of acquiring the H6K ... and finally the operational costs of all these assets ... are absolutely prohibitively too expensive to even think about it. Only the major powers like the USA, Russia and China have the wherewithal to operate such assets. Here we are saying that a Sukhoi, Eagle or a Super Hornet would be too expensive to acquire of and then operate ... acquiring H6 class bird and it's support crafts and then maintaining them all ... would be almost a financial heresy to even think of such a folly.


After-Thought:
However, if we can pull off a Miracle ... and be able to acuire all that and then acquire the funds to operate them ... it will certainly make India ... and even Israel ... sweat.

Hi,

The problem happens when you think beyond beyond where you need to think for weapons procurement---.

You only need to think about the security of your nation and what the weapon will do for you---and what effect would it have on the enemy.

The thing is that you kids have still not learnt yet to keep your focus on the target---. The target is the weapon---and not the FUNDS----not the MONEY---.

When you start discussing money with procurement---you are partially sabotaging your own efforts---.

When you start justifying that there are no funds---you are doing the job for the enemy---and many a very senior Think Tank members on this forum do that---specially the doctor---.

For once you have to decide that the JF17 cannot " hold your fort " on the naval front---. It will do a certain amount of work but not beyond that---.

What you need is a hwy strike aircraft---minimum 2 AShM's that can fly out at least 400-450 miles---then start counting the type of aircraft available.

SU34
J11 / 15 type chinese
HK6
Jh7A

see which one is available and which one is the best bang for the buck---.

The next war will be extremely swift---. Thankfully Paf has taught that to the indian air force very well and explained it to their prime minister as well---the indians will act accordingly with the support of the americans---.

It would be so quick that pak military would not have the time to mate their nuc weapons and launch them---.

The loud mouthed bragging by the Pakistani ISPR General and the Paf has leaked pretty much all the needed secrets to the enemy---.

Now the enemy is in the preparation stage---.

 

[maverick1977]

Hi,

The problem happens when you think beyond beyond where you need to think for weapons procurement---.

You only need to think about the security of your nation and what the weapon will do for you---and what effect would it have on the enemy.

The thing is that you kids have still not learnt yet to keep your focus on the target---. The target is the weapon---and not the FUNDS----not the MONEY---.

When you start discussing money with procurement---you are partially sabotaging your own efforts---.

When you start justifying that there are no funds---you are doing the job for the enemy---and many a very senior Think Tank members on this forum do that---specially the doctor---.

For once you have to decide that the JF17 cannot " hold your fort " on the naval front---. It will do a certain amount of work but not beyond that---.

What you need is a hwy strike aircraft---minimum 2 AShM's that can fly out at least 400-450 miles---then start counting the type of aircraft available.

SU34
J11 / 15 type chinese
HK6
Jh7A

see which one is available and which one is the best bang for the buck---.

The next war will be extremely swift---. Thankfully Paf has taught that to the indian air force very well and explained it to their prime minister as well---the indians will act accordingly with the support of the americans---.

It would be so quick that pak military would not have the time to mate their nuc weapons and launch them---.

The loud mouthed bragging by the Pakistani ISPR General and the Paf has leaked pretty much all the needed secrets to the enemy---.

Now the enemy is in the preparation stage---.

building on your points ..


What we have learned from Feb27 that Pakistan needs to deliver maximum possible TNT in the shortest possible time. can you deliver maximum TNT per sortie?? ask yourself this question
on Feb 27th one whole sq was tied to bomb 2 targets. that is not scalable in general conflict. Pakistan has to get heavy strike force which can deliver conventional scale weaponary. and to avoid damage to its forces in retaliatory strikes.
In current circumstances Pakistan can deliver min amount of weaponary and hence loses its element of strike where a lot of enemy targets will survive.
please beware of using land based conventional onal Ballistic missiles and Surface launced cruise missiles as they can easily be misconstrued as nuclear tipped and secondly they give away nearby vicinity of targets to strike in retaliation.
Air power by itself obscures where the planes flew from; where did they filed the formation, and hence the retaliation strikes are intermediatory tragets like air fields, hence survivability of your weapons depots ..
Gents having an aircraft with massive delivery package has a huge psychological effect on enemy, that is the air force can deliver thousand of tons in a single sortie and it scales as you have increased your survivability due to massive first strike.
if pakistan sorts out the logistical challanges and per year cost of mantaining the big strike aircrafts, they need to calculate operational dollar spent/TNT delivered, as their calcuation and buy that aircraft..
My two cents