Gwadar port to be operational by year end :Chinese official

[Providence]

They are building roads, power plants, industrial parks and infrastructures.And all of these are already started and some are near completion, so i dont think these are empty claims.
Pakistan need energy and infrastructure and if chinese can provide these to us we wont need anything else.We have enough manpower/resources to do wonders

Ok bro ! Good luck !

 

[Zee-shaun]

Hot air. Nothing much is going to go through the port until the roads linking it to China are completed. I can't see that happening before 2020. Even than it would require rail network and I can't see that emerging before 2025. Until then lots of hot air I am afriad

I'm afraid you're wrong. Gwadar was built to reduce the burden on Karachi and serve as a second maritime gateway to Pakistan. Some of Karachi 's work will be shifted to the new port.

one million tonnes is quite a small number

It is only the beginning.

 

[That Guy]

That's great, but a million tons of what exactly for 2017 to go through Gawadar?

Oil, gas, Chinese produce, manufactured goods, assembled products...etc.

1 million tons is not a lot, you cynicism is misplaced.

 

[jupiter2007]

Pakistan need to develop Gwadar and other coastal cities in Balochistan region.

Corrupt PPP government stole millions of dollar for their fake city Zurfiqarabad.

 

[VCheng]

Oil, gas, Chinese produce, manufactured goods, assembled products...etc.

1 million tons is not a lot, you cynicism is misplaced.

Gawadar will become Pakistan's alternate port, that much is clear for its importance. Not much from "Heartland China" is going to be going through here, that much is also clear. Logistics and geography make that clear too, no cynicism needed.

 

[That Guy]

Gawadar will become Pakistan's alternate port, that much is clear for its importance. Not much from "Heartland China" is going to be going through here, that much is also clear. Logistics and geography make that clear too, no cynicism needed.

Except that you're wrong, and the amount of money being thrown by China is proof of that.

First of all, 60% of oil that China imports from the middle east, comes through the Strait of Malacca, China plans to use Gwadar to shorten that distance. Second, while Gwadar will take on excess amount of cargo from Karachi (which is already over burdened), Gwadar's location makes it a far more attractive prospect for importers and exporters. The over all goal of China, and the Chinese have already said as much, is to import and export at least 5% of over all Chinese trade through Gwadar within a few years of CPEC is completely operational.

As for logistics and geography, what do you think the money is going towards? video games? No, it's to build and upgrade Pakistan's infrastructure, and build a road network to improve transportation. So both points are completely pointless to even bring up.

Again, 1 million tons is not a lot, it's actually very little, something that Gwadar even at it's current form can do very easily.

So yeah, either you're being pointlessly cynical, or you don't know much about what is going on.

 

[VCheng]

Except that you're wrong, and the amount of money being thrown by China is proof of that.

First of all, 60% of oil that China imports from the middle east, comes through the Strait of Malacca, China plans to use Gwadar to shorten that distance. Second, while Gwadar will take on excess amount of cargo from Karachi (which is already over burdened), Gwadar's location makes it a far more attractive prospect for importers and exporters. The over all goal of China, and the Chinese have already said as much, is to import and export at least 5% of over all Chinese trade through Gwadar within a few years of CPEC is completely operational.

As for logistics and geography, what do you think the money is going towards? video games? No, it's to build and upgrade Pakistan's infrastructure, and build a road network to improve transportation. So both points are completely pointless to even bring up.

Again, 1 million tons is not a lot, it's actually very little, something that Gwadar even at it's current form can do very easily.

So yeah, either you're being pointlessly cynical, or you don't know much about what is going on.

Let me respond point by point:

1. Whatever money China is investing or loaning is being done with high rates and sovereign guarantees by Pakistan. China has its risks covered, while Pakistan remains on the hook to repay the money, with interest and returns.

2. So how is the oil going to get from Gawadar to the main Chinese consumption centers along its east and south coasts? How much oil can be transported via road, rail or pipeline through Pakistan relative to China's voluminous needs?

3. Yes, Gawadar will make a great alternative for Karachi, but that is about it. Can you please quote a source or study showing the feasibility of your claim that China plans for 5% of its imports/exports to use Gawadar? How is all this volume getting across the Khunjerab, and at what cost and logistical complications?

4. What makes Gawadar's location attractive, compared to alternatives such as Dubai, that offer better political stability and good infrastructure already?

5. Upgrading KKH is good, but it does not alleviate weather, height, and earthquakes. Wasn't it shut down a few days ago yet again? Running a train or pipeline through this formidable mountain range is only going to add cost, even if it is attempted.

6. There is nothing cynical in what I am saying above, merely cold and clean logic.

 

[That Guy]

Let me respond point by point:

1. Whatever money China is investing or loaning is being done with high rates and sovereign guarantees by Pakistan. China has its risks covered, while Pakistan remains on the hook to repay the money, with interest and returns.

You aren't the first one to bring up this ridiculous point, and you certainly won't be the last. The way the deal was set up, Pakistan would be paying back the loans through multiple ways, the first being the leased land, second being through handing over authority of the port to China, and third would be through dividends. Basically, China won't make a profit, if Pakistan doesn't. Sovereign guarantees mean nothing to China, it was only a formality.

2. So how is the oil going to get from Gawadar to the main Chinese consumption centers along its east and south coasts? How much oil can be transported via road, rail or pipeline through Pakistan relative to China's voluminous needs?

That's up to China and Pakistan to work out, but this is their plan. Also oil isn't the only thing, as produce, rare earth minerals...etc are going to be transported as well.

3. Yes, Gawadar will make a great alternative for Karachi, but that is about it. Can you please quote a source or study showing the feasibility of your claim that China plans for 5% of its imports/exports to use Gawadar? How is all this volume getting across the Khunjerab, and at what cost and logistical complications?

The 5% figure is widely available on google, search it yourself, it's public knowledge. I'm not going to do your homework for you. All you're doing is nitpicking.

4. What makes Gawadar's location attractive, compared to alternatives such as Dubai, that offer better political stability and good infrastructure already?

Wait...seriously? Did you really just say that?

Here is a map I got from google

Where do you think Dubai is and Gwadar? Either you're unfamiliar with world geography, or you're tired.

5. Upgrading KKH is good, but it does not alleviate weather, height, and earthquakes. Wasn't it shut down a few days ago yet again? Running a train or pipeline through this formidable mountain range is only going to add cost, even if it is attempted.

That's why they're upgrading it and spending a lot of money doing so. What do you think upgrading means? They aren't going to repaint it and say "yup, it's upgraded now".

6. There is nothing cynical in what I am saying above, merely cold and clean logic.

it's rough and coarse fallacies that you're mentioning.

 

[All-Green]

Land based transit challenges are similar whether China uses east coast or Gwadar, however due to avoidance of a major part of sea trip from Middle East (and beyond) this project is highly feasible for China to help develop its western provinces which shall actually be closer to Gwadar than the east coast of China.

 

[VCheng]

Land based transit challenges are similar whether China uses east coast or Gwadar, however due to avoidance of a major part of sea trip from Middle East (and beyond) this project is highly feasible for China to help develop its western provinces which shall actually be closer to Gwadar than the east coast of China.

This is more fantasy than logic, Sir. Once goods are on a ship, a few thousand miles does not make a difference. Changing transport modalities, and adding rugged terrain with its seasonal changes and other challenges, makes such re-routing economically non-viable. Besides, let us not forget the 3,000 miles within China to get to Khunjerab, either, or the fact that Western China does not produce much, nor will it do so for decades.

The 5% figure is widely available on google, search it yourself, it's public knowledge.

No, there is no such source for your claim. And please read my signature.

==========================

Post-coffee thoughts:

I have no need to argue my points any further in this thread, Sirs. The reality of the achievement will soon lay bare the fallacy of the hype, just like so many times before in Pakistan's and PDF's history.

Peace!

 

[All-Green]

This is more fantasy than logic, Sir. Once goods are on a ship, a few thousand miles does not make a difference. Changing transport modalities, and adding rugged terrain with its seasonal changes and other challenges, makes such re-routing economically non-viable. Besides, let us not forget the 3,000 miles within China to get to Khunjerab, either, or the fact that Western China does not produce much, nor will it do so for decades.



No, there is no such source for your claim. And please read my signature.

==========================

Post-coffee thoughts:

I have no need to argue my points any further in this thread, Sirs. The reality of the achievement will soon lay bare the fallacy of the hype, just like so many times before in Pakistan's and PDF's history.

Peace!

Vcheng...I knew there was something familiar in our discussions...
Peace to you as well!

Just want to conclude my argument as well.

While the reality of any achievement is indeed a concrete basis to form an opinion about eventual success, the world of today is always being run on what we plan for tomorrow and not what we can see in terms of end results.
Business cases are built on potential, logic and forecasts, not hindsight.

I think your statement of declaring the commercial viability of Gwadar (and by extension CPEC) for China as mere fantasy is not accurate.
If it were fantasy then we would not see it being developed and we certainly would not have seen extensive Chinese involvement in Gwadar and CPEC.

As to the long term vision of China, I do not pretend to know all.
However, the massive funding and development indicate that there is a commercial viability for China to help develop this as they would not commit to such a large scale project otherwise.
------
Maybe there is enhanced trade with other countries on the cards as well...very recently Kazakhstan was linked up via rail tracks with Xinjiang province and forecast of 15-30 million tons of freight per year has been hear of.
There have been a lot of high level meetings and funds allocation in China on on developing Xinjiang within the last few years...so they consider it a highly strategic goal as well.
------

I never say that the task is easy given the challenges across multiple fronts; indeed running a state, corporate or even a small business is also full of uncertainties...
However, we should not consider this a pipe dream either!

 

[VCheng]

Vcheng...I knew there was something familiar in our discussions...
Peace to you as well!

Just want to conclude my argument as well.

While the reality of any achievement is indeed a concrete basis to form an opinion about eventual success, the world of today is always being run on what we plan for tomorrow and not what we can see in terms of end results.
Business cases are built on potential, logic and forecasts, not hindsight.

I think your statement of declaring the commercial viability of Gwadar (and by extension CPEC) for China as mere fantasy is not accurate.
If it were fantasy then we would not see it being developed and we certainly would not have seen extensive Chinese involvement in Gwadar and CPEC.

As to the long term vision of China, I do not pretend to know all.
However, the massive funding and development indicate that there is a commercial viability for China to help develop this as they would not commit to such a large scale project otherwise.
------
Maybe there is enhanced trade with other countries on the cards as well...very recently Kazakhstan was linked up via rail tracks with Xinjiang province and forecast of 15-30 million tons of freight per year has been hear of.
There have been a lot of high level meetings and funds allocation in China on on developing Xinjiang within the last few years...so they consider it a highly strategic goal as well.
------

I never say that the task is easy given the challenges across multiple fronts; indeed running a state, corporate or even a small business is also full of uncertainties...
However, we should not consider this a pipe dream either!

Of course, let us take this up when Gawadar and CPEC make the transition into reality. I am in no rush.

 

[That Guy]

No, there is no such source for your claim. And please read my signature.

==========================

Post-coffee thoughts:

I have no need to argue my points any further in this thread, Sirs. The reality of the achievement will soon lay bare the fallacy of the hype, just like so many times before in Pakistan's and PDF's history.

Peace!

I have not attacked you personally, rather I've rightfully questioned your judgement.

Also, it's funny how you are stuck on one point, and fail to address the rest of my points.

You can't argue your points, so trying in the first place was pointless. All you've done is failed to prove your point against overwhelming evidence and logic.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I have not attacked you personally, rather I've rightfully questioned your judgement.

Also, it's funny how you are stuck on one point, and fail to address the rest of my points.

You can't argue your points, so trying in the first place was pointless. All you've done is failed to prove your point against overwhelming evidence and logic.

I think CPEC will be the jumpstart that Pak badly needs for her economy. Even your mortal enemies understand this, so further explanation isn't required..

 

[That Guy]

I think CPEC will be the jumpstart that Pak badly needs for her economy. Even your mortal enemies understand this, so further explanation isn't required..

I doubt that it will be the massive boon that Pakistan is seeking, but it will be successful enough to propel Pakistan towards economic success; frankly, that's all it needs to do.