Guns Fall Silent on the LoC

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Cease fire agreement isn't new if you are trying to look it like a change about Kashmir. Before making such a claim like a naive, check history.

Kashmir status remains disputed as UN resolutions and Indian occupation couldn't change it.

It's new from the point that art 370 will in a way has been agreed and there is no going back to that order. Even Pakistan knows it.
India is very happy for an ceasefire as well. It's soldiers (also Pakistanis) can get some well deserved cool off period.
Pakistan with all its Nazi calling , not accepting anything till art 370 is restored etc has made an bit of an climbdown. It might have it own strategic reason (like its own loan repayment, deficits etc) to which Indian leadership have agreed pretty soon. But this instance is not comparable to past history. As of now. Whether it will become like past years is to wait and watch

 

[Vapour]

same reason our rangers and mujahid battalions are deployed on border... that is what they are they are basically border guards

Just appears like a folly that they'd have them at the LOC, from what is mentioned, they're not as competent as their regulars so doesn't make sense why they'd field them there.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Whether you dump Urdu or not is not our concern. I am just saying that I dont think it is likely to happen.

You just showed an inordinate concern at our children learning Mandarin. What is likely to happen cannot be predicted on your preferences.

Nobody had predicted in 1900 that just 47 years later India would be carved into three pieces. Neither Lala Lajpat Rai, Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Bipin Chandra Pal ( your famous "Lal, Bal, Pal" ) could have imagined this would have happened .

Again, we Indians claim the cultural heritage of the entire subcontinent. We have always been sure of who we are.

Interesting. So you claim the cultural heritage of the Konyak Nagas, the Tamil Irula snake catchers, the Kerala Kathakkali dancers, the pandas of Varanasi, the Rajasthani Kalbelias , the Robindro Shongeet choirs of West Bengal , along with our culture from Pakistan, like the Kalash, the Swatis, and the Mengals and Marris from Baluchistan ?
What is the cultural connection between a Hunza dancer and a Mohini Attam dancer from Kerala?

Whats the connection between the two ?

You are constantly trying to define who you are since 1947. First you claimed that you are the custodians of Muslims of the subcontinent. After 1971, you changed tack and said that you are from the clan of Islamic invaders. Then some of you say that you are from Indus Valley Civilization. May you find closure as a West-Asian nation if that is what you wish for.

You got it wrong. The resolution for Pakistan in 1940 called for at least two (or by implication more) sovereign independent Muslim majority states to be carved out of India as homelands for Muslims so that they do not have to live as minorities in a united India. Search and read the text of the resolution on line or will paste it here for you. Pre-1971 . The cultural and linguistic differences between different Muslim majority regions of pre-partition India was recognized but not implemented. Pakistan as it was immediately after 1947 and up to 1971, against the spirit of the Pakistan resolution and was an artificial aberration. A Civil War was not inevitable, and a separation that was proposed, could have been arranged without bloodshed. Thanks in part due to India's interest the situation went otherwise.

Post 1971 both the Muslim majority regions became two sovereign independent nations as intended. The question of religious identity resolved it was now up to both nations to chart their cultural identity. Speaking only for ourselves ( Pakistan as of today) we have a distinct cultural identity not connected with India. We see no connection with the Chola kingdoms or the Marathas. So we haven't changed tack, but instead actually returned to the original purpose behind the dismemberment of India.

I am not blackmailing you. You are getting blackmailed because your heart is in the subcontinent but your mind wants you to become Turkish or Iranian.

Yes, you are blackmailing. You are emphasizing the only connection left, which is linguistic affinity, which as I pointed out to you in the case of Russia can change. Yes, even though not our mother tongue we developed a deep affection for Urdu or simple Hindustani. This unfortunately is exploited big time by you, our enemy, searing our hearts with the most potent psychological weapon at your disposal.
There has come a time to change and sacrifice that which we love for the survival and transformation of our nation.
Our hearts are changing to our geographical roots in the Indus and beyond, to the Ghurid Empire, and Khorasan , much before the adventurers from this land made it to the banks of the Jamuna.
The Jamuna or Ganga means nothing to us now and even the line below is meaningless now:
Aye aberood e Ganga woh din hai yaad tujh ko, utara teray kinare jab karewan hamara.
To understand what that means look at this link for the English translation. Read the whole page please, particularly the last lines.
Forget us and we will forget you. We want to live as we have lived for 5000 years. A nuclear fireball is not our future.
Please continue the conversation here:

Pakistan First ! The case for Pakistani Nationalism.

@magra Please continue the conversation here. This is a more appropriate thread for your thoughts. Whether you dump Urdu or not is not our concern. I am just saying that I dont think it is likely to happen. You just showed an inordinate concern at our children learning Mandarin. What is...

defence.pk

 

[magra]

You just showed an inordinate concern at our children learning Mandarin. What is likely to happen cannot be predicted on your preferences.

Nobody had predicted in 1900 that just 47 years later India would be carved into three pieces. Neither Lala Lajpat Rai, Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Bipin Chandra Pal ( your famous "Lal, Bal, Pal" ) could have imagined this would have happened .

I did not raise any concern, I was just bemused. Obviously, you can learn or forget any language you desire.
You are right when you say that in 1900, no one would have thought the nationalistic struggle against British imperialism would be made impure by religious differences. British always wanted to rule India by 'divide and rule' policy. They ensured that even while going, they leave a fractured subcontinent forever in conflict with itself.
Lal-Bal-Pal were not just ours, they were yours too. Or do you see them as anti-Muslim? Were they fighting to only free Hindus from British?

Interesting. So you claim the cultural heritage of the Konyak Nagas, the Tamil Irula snake catchers, the Kerala Kathakkali dancers, the pandas of Varanasi, the Rajasthani Kalbelias , the Robindro Shongeet choirs of West Bengal , along with our culture from Pakistan, like the Kalash, the Swatis, and the Mengals and Marris from Baluchistan ?
What is the cultural connection between a Hunza dancer and a Mohini Attam dancer from Kerala?

India as it stands today consists of people from Nagaland, Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Varanasi, Rajasthan and all the above place you described. These people are connected with a common thread - INDIA. Each of them draws pride in their respective cultures and traditions. Does not matter how distant each culture is from each other, we are proud of them all as Indians. Our motto is "Unity in Diversity". The more diverse group we have, the better it is for our unity. Our nationhood is not dependent on one language, or one ethnicity, or one religion. We are a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-lingual nation.

 

[magra]

You got it wrong. The resolution for Pakistan in 1940 called for at least two (or by implication more) sovereign independent Muslim majority states to be carved out of India as homelands for Muslims so that they do not have to live as minorities in a united India. Search and read the text of the resolution on line or will paste it here for you. Pre-1971 . The cultural and linguistic differences between different Muslim majority regions of pre-partition India was recognized but not implemented. Pakistan as it was immediately after 1947 and up to 1971, against the spirit of the Pakistan resolution and was an artificial aberration. A Civil War was not inevitable, and a separation that was proposed, could have been arranged without bloodshed. Thanks in part due to India's interest the situation went otherwise.

Post 1971 both the Muslim majority regions became two sovereign independent nations as intended. The question of religious identity resolved it was now up to both nations to chart their cultural identity.

Good, if you are clear. I see a separate thread where Pakistanis are debating whether they are Pakistani first or Muslim first. People are having mixed opinion there. We Indians do not have any such confusion. For us, our nation is first and foremost.

Speaking only for ourselves ( Pakistan as of today) we have a distinct cultural identity not connected with India. We see no connection with the Chola kingdoms or the Marathas. So we haven't changed tack, but instead actually returned to the original purpose behind the dismemberment of India.

So you have no connection to any history or tradition belonging to present day India? There are some Pakistanis on this forum who originate from present day Indian territories of Bihar, Haryana etc. Would you ask them to forget their traditions? Will they need to re-write their family history as sons of Mahmud Ghazni?

Yes, you are blackmailing. You are emphasizing the only connection left, which is linguistic affinity, which as I pointed out to you in the case of Russia can change. Yes, even though not our mother tongue we developed a deep affection for Urdu or simple Hindustani. This unfortunately is exploited big time by you, our enemy, searing our hearts with the most potent psychological weapon at your disposal.
There has come a time to change and sacrifice that which we love for the survival and transformation of our nation.

Without making any effort if you are getting blackmailed, then the weakness is within you. We wont stop speaking our language to assuage your imaginary fears.

 

[magra]

Our hearts are changing to our geographical roots in the Indus and beyond, to the Ghurid Empire, and Khorasan , much before the adventurers from this land made it to the banks of the Jamuna.
The Jamuna or Ganga means nothing to us now and even the line below is meaningless now:
Aye aberood e Ganga woh din hai yaad tujh ko, utara teray kinare jab karewan hamara.
To understand what that means look at this link for the English translation. Read the whole page please, particularly the last lines.
Forget us and we will forget you. We want to live as we have lived for 5000 years. A nuclear fireball is not our future.
Please continue the conversation here:

Pakistan First ! The case for Pakistani Nationalism.

@magra Please continue the conversation here. This is a more appropriate thread for your thoughts. Whether you dump Urdu or not is not our concern. I am just saying that I dont think it is likely to happen. You just showed an inordinate concern at our children learning Mandarin. What is...

defence.pk

I pity you. I see that you have deep-rooted knowledge of the subcontinent and yet you talk of severing that connection and adopting a foreign culture. A phrase is apt on this thought "A washerman's ***, is neither of home, nor the bank". You can translate it in Urdu and understand the meaning. I do not mean to insult you, just to tell you that people who run away from their identities wander trying to find it their entire lives.

 

[HHindustani78]

We are very much in our senses and we need to periodically bring you to yours every time you attempt your so called ground and air " surgical strikes ".

Six Sense is what is required - Welcome to Hindu Space Program - ISRO

You don't order us and your advice is unwanted. Stay within your boundaries and plot your next attack on us . The ground realities are different from this tiny thread on an obscure forum.

Sarkar e Hindustan - Foundational Mechanism always welcome Suggestions for the Betterment of the Hindu Rashtra !!! Ground Realities for some are different and for some different !!! Assessments are being done by Indian Armed Forces - Central Command Headquarters !!!

Likewise. Join the mainstream world.

Whole World is aware that Hindu Tehzebun is having the answers for the Hidden Knowledge !!!

A world that is not interested in diet restrictions on which minority must be forced into vegetarianism or risk being lynched.

Azad Hind Fauj - Deen e Arya - Warriors / Deen e Islam - Warriors are Meat eating Evil Hindoos !!!

Educate your politicians that radars are intended to work in rain and fog. It will help planning your next air strike on us ..

Jo Mantar Jantay hai , Wohi Mantri Ban Sakte Hai !!!

Talk peace and make war.

Argument is presented like this only !!!

gandu, why are you even at PDF? clearly obsessed with Pakistan.

This Ghandu seems not Bandhu !!! Nahi Chalbe !!!

 

[HHindustani78]

It's new from the point that art 370 will in a way has been agreed and there is no going back to that order.

According to Dastoor e Hindustan - Article 370 which gives Special Status because of Bhagwanam Shree Rama !!! Bhagwanam Shree Rama went to Shree Kailesha Parvat !!! Allah Hu Akbar !!!

India is very happy for an ceasefire as well. It's soldiers (also Pakistanis) can get some well deserved cool off period.

Military Ceasefire meaning is Swapping of Prisoners of War ; Dead Bodies Swapping Etc !!!

That has become into Pillar Post Surrendering to Indian Armed Forces !!!

Pakistan with all its Nazi calling , not accepting anything till art 370 is restored etc has made an bit of an climbdown. It might have it own strategic reason (like its own loan repayment, deficits etc) to which Indian leadership have agreed pretty soon. But this instance is not comparable to past history. As of now. Whether it will become like past years is to wait and watch

Republic of Pakistan - Armed Forces - Military Command - Repelling of Union of India - Constitution Law - Article 370 on behest of Chinese Military, has given more Military Powers along with the Northern Frontal Agency - Territory to Chinese Military , Chinese Military Flags are seen on Each Mountains there !!!

 

[VkdIndian]

I heard about recent ceasefire agreement. It looks like we want peace after their abrogation. Let's be realistic. We must continue to develop first. They have made a big decision and we did nothing. I think it's time to move on. We should stop this Kashmir Kashmir. Let's elevate people from poverty first. Educate them. War for Kashmir is useless. They always have this numerical superiority and china will never start war against India or help us. It's disappointing but it's truth.

Very well articulated. War will not lead to anything. China starting a war for someone? No chance.

 

[HHindustani78]

Very well articulated. War will not lead to anything. China starting a war for someone? No chance.

Jiang Han Clansmen are aware what happened to Jiang Han Troopers after 1261 Isvi !!!

Chinese Military are having issues with Western Military Powers !!! Superior Yew Pagans !!!

 

[ssethii]

It's new from the point that art 370 will in a way has been agreed and there is no going back to that order. Even Pakistan knows it.
India is very happy for an ceasefire as well. It's soldiers (also Pakistanis) can get some well deserved cool off period.
Pakistan with all its Nazi calling , not accepting anything till art 370 is restored etc has made an bit of an climbdown. It might have it own strategic reason (like its own loan repayment, deficits etc) to which Indian leadership have agreed pretty soon. But this instance is not comparable to past history. As of now. Whether it will become like past years is to wait and watch

that would have been demanded only if we had given any credence to this article in the first place, it's a unilateral action and doesn't change anything on the ground. We will raise our voice against it if it makes the lives of Kashmiris more miserable and behind these actions, India would try to change the demographics of the region but in a bigger scheme of things it doesn't matter if it exists or not. It's long been the policy of the state to give diplomatic and moral support to Kashmiris for their rebellion, Pakistan is not going for a war on this issue anytime soon. If it is acceptable for Kashmiris, we have no other choice but to accept it. If it is not acceptable to Kashmiris and they continue to resist, we will continue to raise our voice against it and place our full diplomatic and moral weight behind it. Kashmir problem is not so complex for Kashmiris but too difficult and complicated for the aggressor who is trying to forcefully keep control over the region for the past seventy-plus years but failed to sway the populous to its side despite trying all the options in the book. The frustration of the state is quite visible in its actions post removal of this article.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Just appears like a folly that they'd have them at the LOC, from what is mentioned, they're not as competent as their regulars so doesn't make sense why they'd field them there.

BSF makes up for their lack of competency by their increase in strength in comparison to an regular Indian infantry unit....BSF unit is more than 9 company strong.....more than 1000 men.

 

[VkdIndian]

The rate at which frustration of Indian state seems to be increasing as propagated on this forum, it would have reached moon by now.

It seems people outside India don’t get it. But I don’t see any frustration over here. In fact the detractors of the present govt are exasperated and frustrated to no end.
How is it happening? No idea.
Even seasoned political analysts are in a spin trying to decode it.

 

[Ghost 125]

Just appears like a folly that they'd have them at the LOC, from what is mentioned, they're not as competent as their regulars so doesn't make sense why they'd field them there.

as napoleon said at waterlo.... we will match them with our lancers....so we match them with our mujahids ,,, besides what kind of competency is required when you have to just fire from your position, static and duck down when fired at. paramilitaries or civil armed forces are competent enough for that (defence).

 

[Taimoor Khan]

This raises the tantalising question of whether Beijing is a part of the LoC announcement and its agreement with New Delhi for a disengagement in Ladakh was contingent on a simultaneous peace deal between India and Pakistan. Indians would have been loath to accept such a condition as it would make Beijing an arbiter between New Delhi and Islamabad, acknowledging China as a superpower now enacting the role played by the US in the region for decades.

This seems to be very plausible explanation in sudden change of Indian behaviour. Soon after China imposed its will on India over Laddakh, the solution on Kashmir and "falling in line" over CPEC/OBOR, it seems part of packaged deal.