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Gulf excess and Pakistani slaves

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I am not taking any sides (either with Pakistanis or Arabs) but just look at it from a different angle.

Pakistani laborers earn small salaries in Gulf Countries, well then what is the government of Pakistan doing to counter this. Has it made any efforts to raise the standard of living of the poor Pakistani living in Pakistan so that they cannot be lured to work outside? Has it made efforts to spread education in the poor people in Pakistan?

The thread is not about Pakistan or India's incompetence but about Arab mistreatment of fellow muslims and treating Pakistan as their playground.

By the way, if Pakistan had all the oil that Arabs have, it would have been a much better place than the Gulf.
 
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Islamicans are back to exhibiting their identity crisis - What are they ? They had hoped they could just be Muslims, but find that the Arbi has just one use of these subhumans, they are meant to "serve".

Yes, yes, it sad - but look, it's all about VALUES, right? On one side there is the small matter of money - and on the other there is the question of dignity -- For people these ideas are so much folly - the only real value is MONEY, the material -

And I read with amusement that the Title is objected to -- on what basis? Don't want to go to Madinah?? so what's the beef? Don't get confused by the tone, it's an alarm bell for those who want to think of the experience of being -- and think more, feel less.
Anyways, for the confused - Am I really arbi after 50 years??

Saudi Arabia-born expats face an identity crisis


By IBRAHIM NAFFEE | ARAB NEWS

Published: Apr 14, 2011

JEDDAH: The children of first and second-generation expatriates born in Saudi Arabia face an identity crisis. They say they consider themselves part of the Kingdom yet they are treated as foreigners.

There are 8.4 million expatriates in Saudi Arabia. Of these, over two million are estimated to have been born in the country and spent all their lives here. According to Indian diplomats, 10 percent of the two million Indians living and working in the country were born here. When it comes to third-generation Indians, it is thought that there are around 30,000. If those figures were replicated across other expatriate communities, it would mean 820,000 Saudi-born expatriates living in the Kingdom. Of these, a quarter of a million would be third-generation expatriates. In fact, the number is probably higher. According to official figures, in 2009, over 14.4 percent of births in the Kingdom were registered to foreign parents.

More specifically, there are well over a million Palestinians, the overwhelming majority of them born in the Kingdom. There are groups such as the stateless Burmese, now into their fourth and fifth generations, of whom there are more than 300,000. In addition to the Saudi-born Indians, there are large numbers of Saudi-born Pakistanis. Although there are half a million fewer Pakistanis than Indians, it is claimed that the percentage born in the Kingdom is over 30 percent.

Despite not being given Saudi nationality, these Saudi-born foreigners strongly feel they belong here. In the case of third generations expatriates, they have inherited the Saudi culture from parents also born in the Kingdom and themselves with a strong sense of being Saudi.

"It is a complicated situation. My son knows very well that both his father and mother were born in the Kingdom. He has no connections whatsoever with his original country and does not know anything about it other than the fact that his grandfather lived there for some time before coming to the Kingdom," Adel Abu Hassan, an Eritrean expatriate who has a son and a daughter, told Arab News.

He was worried about the future of his children and said he would not know what to say to them when they grow up. "Do I consider my children Saudis or foreigners? They were born here. So was I. I have no answer to this question," he said.

Abu Hassan said there was no chance his children would ever go back to Eritrea. "All connections with our ancestors’ country were severed. We belong to Saudi Arabia where we were born, raised, educated, married and had our children," he said, expressing fears that the problem will exacerbate as more generations are born in the Kingdom and still treated as foreigners.

Second and third-generation expatriates say the fact they are treated as non-Saudis may prevent them from finding jobs or being admitted to schools and universities. They are also upset at not being able to benefit from government services provided to its citizens.

Many Saudi-born foreigners complain that they are treated like expatriates who have just arrived in the country. They said this depresses them, adding that they belong to this country but are not nationals, nor are they given permanent iqamas (residence permits) that would allow them to live in peace and security without having to constantly worry about sponsorship rules.


Salim Marwan, a Syrian born in the Kingdom, says he has forgotten that he is from Syria. "My father came to this country more than 50 years ago. I am worried about my future and the future of my children who see themselves as Saudis and are no different from their Saudi counterparts in schools. Our sense of belonging to the Kingdom has been reflected in our dress, customs and dialect. We are citizens in every sense of the word except that we do not have citizenship," he said.

Marwan said his eldest son, who is 15 years old, has never been to Syria and that his life is attached to the system of iqama that has to be renewed every two years. "My son is not concerned about the difficulties we face every time we want to renew our iqama. He does not know any other home apart from the Kingdom. If he goes back to Syria he will feel like a complete alien. He will be different in terms of his dialect, customs and costumes. The Syrians will think he is a Saudi while the Saudis consider him a foreigner," he said.

Um Hussain, a Yemeni expatriate and a mother of three, said she fears for the future of her children who will always be considered foreigners. "My children were born in Jeddah, the same as myself and their father. They spent all their lives in this Red Sea coastal city and know nothing about Yemen but are still treated in schools as foreigners," she said.

Um Hussain, however, said she had no difficulty raising her children according to Saudi customs and traditions that are similar to those in Yemen. "Though we do not have anything to allow us to stay here permanently, the long years we spent here may help," she said.

Um Saeed, another Yemeni woman, has a different problem. She says she does not have enough money to renew her iqama every two years. "I was born in the Kingdom. My husband was also born in the Kingdom and so were my three daughters. My husband's monthly salary is only SR1,500 so we face financial problems every time we want to renew our iqamas. We have to borrow money from our friends and relatives," she said.

Um Saeed complained that sometimes they have to look for a new kafeel (sponsor). "I am not hoping for citizenship but I do wish that this system would be abolished," she said.

Dr. Muneera Turkistani, a sociologist, said the children of migrants are usually more loyal to the countries where they are born. "They love this country and consider themselves to be part of it but society does not accept them as Saudi citizens," she said. She added the difficulties they face in joining universities or finding jobs make them feel alienated and unwanted.

Turkistani’s observation was confirmed very effectively by Abdul Rahman Bashir, a 13-year-old boy playing football in the street. Asked about his nationality, he said he was Saudi, but his friends said: "He is not Saudi, he is Indian but he was born in Jeddah".

The boy’s rejoinder said a great deal. "I don't know what nationality means. I want to be Saudi, like my friends."

Many Palestinians on the other hand have remained committed to their nationality, hoping to return to their homeland in the future, even though the community is well into its fourth generation in the Kingdom.

Jihan Jamal is a Palestinian who was born in Jeddah where she now works as a reporter. She does not want to change her nationality and become a Saudi citizen. She hopes to return to Palestine “in the near future." But she admits that of the estimated one million Palestinians in the Kingdom, most were born in Saudi Arabia and “know nothing about their home.” She admits though that her case is an exception. “The majority of this community intends to obtain Saudi nationality, regardless of their right to return home," she explained.

In the case of many Indians and Pakistanis who were born and have lived all their lives in the Kingdom, there is not the same longing to return home. For them home is Saudi Arabia.

Anyone who sees Ali Abd Al-Raoof thinks he is Saudi not a Pakistani. Aged 30, he works in marketing, wears a thobe like a Saudi and speaks Arabic with a Saudi accent. "I was born in Jeddah,” he says, “ but I’m still an expatriate. One day, I hope I’ll get Saudi nationality. That will guarantee a good future for my sons.
"
 
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Islamicans are back to exhibiting their identity crisis - What are they ? They had hoped they could just be Muslims, but find that the Arbi has just one use of these subhumans, they are meant to "serve".

Yes, yes, it sad - but look, it's all about VALUES, right? On one side there is the small matter of money - and on the other there is the question of dignity -- For people these ideas are so much folly - the only real value is MONEY, the material -

And I read with amusement that the Title is objected to -- on what basis? Don't want to go to Madinah?? so what's the beef? Don't get confused by the tone, it's an alarm bell for those who want to think of the experience of being -- and think more, feel less.
Anyways, for the confused - Am I really arbi after 50 years??

Saudi Arabia-born expats face an identity crisis


By IBRAHIM NAFFEE | ARAB NEWS

Published: Apr 14, 2011

JEDDAH: The children of first and second-generation expatriates born in Saudi Arabia face an identity crisis. They say they consider themselves part of the Kingdom yet they are treated as foreigners.

There are 8.4 million expatriates in Saudi Arabia. Of these, over two million are estimated to have been born in the country and spent all their lives here. According to Indian diplomats, 10 percent of the two million Indians living and working in the country were born here. When it comes to third-generation Indians, it is thought that there are around 30,000. If those figures were replicated across other expatriate communities, it would mean 820,000 Saudi-born expatriates living in the Kingdom. Of these, a quarter of a million would be third-generation expatriates. In fact, the number is probably higher. According to official figures, in 2009, over 14.4 percent of births in the Kingdom were registered to foreign parents.

More specifically, there are well over a million Palestinians, the overwhelming majority of them born in the Kingdom. There are groups such as the stateless Burmese, now into their fourth and fifth generations, of whom there are more than 300,000. In addition to the Saudi-born Indians, there are large numbers of Saudi-born Pakistanis. Although there are half a million fewer Pakistanis than Indians, it is claimed that the percentage born in the Kingdom is over 30 percent.

Despite not being given Saudi nationality, these Saudi-born foreigners strongly feel they belong here. In the case of third generations expatriates, they have inherited the Saudi culture from parents also born in the Kingdom and themselves with a strong sense of being Saudi.

"It is a complicated situation. My son knows very well that both his father and mother were born in the Kingdom. He has no connections whatsoever with his original country and does not know anything about it other than the fact that his grandfather lived there for some time before coming to the Kingdom," Adel Abu Hassan, an Eritrean expatriate who has a son and a daughter, told Arab News.

He was worried about the future of his children and said he would not know what to say to them when they grow up. "Do I consider my children Saudis or foreigners? They were born here. So was I. I have no answer to this question," he said.

Abu Hassan said there was no chance his children would ever go back to Eritrea. "All connections with our ancestors’ country were severed. We belong to Saudi Arabia where we were born, raised, educated, married and had our children," he said, expressing fears that the problem will exacerbate as more generations are born in the Kingdom and still treated as foreigners.

Second and third-generation expatriates say the fact they are treated as non-Saudis may prevent them from finding jobs or being admitted to schools and universities. They are also upset at not being able to benefit from government services provided to its citizens.

Many Saudi-born foreigners complain that they are treated like expatriates who have just arrived in the country. They said this depresses them, adding that they belong to this country but are not nationals, nor are they given permanent iqamas (residence permits) that would allow them to live in peace and security without having to constantly worry about sponsorship rules.


Salim Marwan, a Syrian born in the Kingdom, says he has forgotten that he is from Syria. "My father came to this country more than 50 years ago. I am worried about my future and the future of my children who see themselves as Saudis and are no different from their Saudi counterparts in schools. Our sense of belonging to the Kingdom has been reflected in our dress, customs and dialect. We are citizens in every sense of the word except that we do not have citizenship," he said.

Marwan said his eldest son, who is 15 years old, has never been to Syria and that his life is attached to the system of iqama that has to be renewed every two years. "My son is not concerned about the difficulties we face every time we want to renew our iqama. He does not know any other home apart from the Kingdom. If he goes back to Syria he will feel like a complete alien. He will be different in terms of his dialect, customs and costumes. The Syrians will think he is a Saudi while the Saudis consider him a foreigner," he said.

Um Hussain, a Yemeni expatriate and a mother of three, said she fears for the future of her children who will always be considered foreigners. "My children were born in Jeddah, the same as myself and their father. They spent all their lives in this Red Sea coastal city and know nothing about Yemen but are still treated in schools as foreigners," she said.

Um Hussain, however, said she had no difficulty raising her children according to Saudi customs and traditions that are similar to those in Yemen. "Though we do not have anything to allow us to stay here permanently, the long years we spent here may help," she said.

Um Saeed, another Yemeni woman, has a different problem. She says she does not have enough money to renew her iqama every two years. "I was born in the Kingdom. My husband was also born in the Kingdom and so were my three daughters. My husband's monthly salary is only SR1,500 so we face financial problems every time we want to renew our iqamas. We have to borrow money from our friends and relatives," she said.

Um Saeed complained that sometimes they have to look for a new kafeel (sponsor). "I am not hoping for citizenship but I do wish that this system would be abolished," she said.

Dr. Muneera Turkistani, a sociologist, said the children of migrants are usually more loyal to the countries where they are born. "They love this country and consider themselves to be part of it but society does not accept them as Saudi citizens," she said. She added the difficulties they face in joining universities or finding jobs make them feel alienated and unwanted.

Turkistani’s observation was confirmed very effectively by Abdul Rahman Bashir, a 13-year-old boy playing football in the street. Asked about his nationality, he said he was Saudi, but his friends said: "He is not Saudi, he is Indian but he was born in Jeddah".

The boy’s rejoinder said a great deal. "I don't know what nationality means. I want to be Saudi, like my friends."

Many Palestinians on the other hand have remained committed to their nationality, hoping to return to their homeland in the future, even though the community is well into its fourth generation in the Kingdom.

Jihan Jamal is a Palestinian who was born in Jeddah where she now works as a reporter. She does not want to change her nationality and become a Saudi citizen. She hopes to return to Palestine “in the near future." But she admits that of the estimated one million Palestinians in the Kingdom, most were born in Saudi Arabia and “know nothing about their home.” She admits though that her case is an exception. “The majority of this community intends to obtain Saudi nationality, regardless of their right to return home," she explained.

In the case of many Indians and Pakistanis who were born and have lived all their lives in the Kingdom, there is not the same longing to return home. For them home is Saudi Arabia.

Anyone who sees Ali Abd Al-Raoof thinks he is Saudi not a Pakistani. Aged 30, he works in marketing, wears a thobe like a Saudi and speaks Arabic with a Saudi accent. "I was born in Jeddah,” he says, “ but I’m still an expatriate. One day, I hope I’ll get Saudi nationality. That will guarantee a good future for my sons.
"
Sir Islam rejected this Arab and Non Arab Nationalism and made all muslims part of UMMAH as a Muslims its compulsory on Muslims to stand by it but some traitors of Islam want to reject it but they will defeated
 
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The thread is not about Pakistan or India's incompetence but about Arab mistreatment of fellow muslims and treating Pakistan as their playground.

By the way, if Pakistan had all the oil that Arabs have, it would have been a much better place than the Gulf.

Well they are wealthy because of their only one natural resource which is the black gold. In Pakistan we have tens of natural resources but no one is bothered to tap them "appropriately".

If we tap our natural resources that we have we can be a lot better than what we are now if not richer than the gulf states. Each country is gifted with something from nature, it is up to the country to use it appropriately for the welfare of the country.

But our politicians and policy makers work day and night for their own personal interest be it in their offices or in their homes or in their bed rooms or while drinking away the nights. They have taken an oath, "whatever i will do will be for my personal interests, I will not do anything that is not in my personal interests".
 
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Jhoot aakhaan kuch bachda ay
Sach aakhan paambar machda ay
Jach jach ke jeebhan kehndi ay
Moonh ayi baat na rehndi ay...

Just have to say thank god the Metro only is attractive to the type of people currently travelling on it.
 
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Dubai Bank says all female staff must wear abayas
Gulfnews: Dubai Bank says all female staff must wear abayas

08/22/2009 02:48 PM | By Bassma Al Jandaly, Staff Reporter



Dubai: All female staff at Dubai Bank, Muslim and non-Muslim, must wear a shailah (head scarf) and abaya (black cloak covering the whole body) starting this Ramadan, Gulf News has learnt.

A memo sent to staff on Thursday says the bank has decided that all Muslim and non-Muslim female staff must wear a shailah and abaya.

A Dubai Bank official who would not reveal his name said a memo was issued to this effect by the human resources manager, informing employees that starting from the first day of Ramadan all female employees must wear a shailah and abaya regardless of their religion.

"Our bank is Islamic and must follow Sharia in all respects, which will satisfy our clients," he said. While the decision takes effect beginning first of Ramadan, it has become a rule and part of the dress code for female employees at all times.

Gulf News contacted Dubai Bank on several occasions, but officials would not comment on the memo.

Gulf News has learnt that the proposal on the dress code was made by the bank's Fatwa and Sharia Supervisory Board in June and it was endorsed by the management. A circular was then issued on Thursday.

The Fatwa and Sharia Supervisory Board's proposal, a copy of which has been obtained by Gulf News, says the abaya should not have any embroidery or decoration on it and must not be coloured.

It says any female staff who does not adhere to this dress code should be advised by the human resources department at the bank to follow it.

If the staff member insists on not abiding by the law then the matter should be brought to the notice of the executive member of the Sharia supervisory board who can decide upon action to be taken against that staff
.

The bank will encourage employees to wear a shailah and abaya by providing staff with them. The head of the human resources department has been instructed to ensure that employees adhere to the dress code.

The bank has given employees a grace period until after the Eid holiday after which it will become mandatory.

The proposal, signed by Shaikh Mohammad Taqi Usmani, Chairman of the Fatwa and Sharia Supervisory Board of Dubai Bank, says the move will gain customers' confidence and help market the bank's products.

Many customers, the proposal said, choose a bank based upon its appearance before considering other aspects. The dress code is essential in determining the bank's identity as a Sharia compliant institution
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Think Gang, think Tribe, think ignorance - What you wear is what you are, the content of your character is not our business and your ethical and moral compass is your own business, not the bank's business. and people's brains are in their eyes

Actually to clarify, its Dubai Bank's Islamic Banking division aka Dubai Islamic bank which was required to do so. Still wrong, but it apparently boosts their sales.
 
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Another hate thread directed to spread even more hatred between the people good job kids you are very good at spreading your hate to everyone around you.
Apparently you preach that Arabs are racist bastards but at the same time you are spreading hate towards a race yourself by generlizing.

Congratulations muse each day because of you and people like you people get more and more divided and hatred ensues itself among our people. Congratulations muse. You make people only look at the few bad people in a society to judge the entire society for this trait and make it a general feature.

Congratulations muse. With more and more people like you around another ten years we will be at each owner's throats out of haterd.
Congratulations muse. Your goal of dividing the hearts of which was one day when a Muslim would give food to his brother Muslim even though he was starving are over.

Congratulations muse. Congratulations muse.
 
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Masomananic

You play the victim not so convincingly -- Here's what you have to do to get relief - and it's so simple and honest and human - All you had to say was that

" Guys listen, I know and understand that our society has been corrupted by ideas that should have no place amongst us - I just want you to understand that we are only now shedding our tribal ways - and because we live in a closed society under a religious tyranny, we do not discuss social problems in the same way that you guys are used to - but it does not mean that we do not aspire to better than we have been - one day our society will be open to self reflection and self correction, but until that day, I appreciate the fact you guys care enough to want to see a better society in Arabia"


That's all you had to do - but this is not something you are used to, you prefer to hide your head in the sand like Ostrich and pretend that there are no problems and if there are problems they should not be discussed -- See Maso, this is the only way out, you have to come clean - if you want us to be with you, then you must show that you are with us - that you understand - barring that well you know what's going to come your way - I hope you will take this as "brotherly" and "fair"
 
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Come out and play Maso - No point hiding
 
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South Asians Engineers getting 1/4th the pay of "White" Engineers isn't cause of few "bad people". Its institutionalized racism and discrimination.

Just wondering, how do East Asians do?

I have some friends who are Arabs (from Jordan), and I have never noticed them discriminating against anybody at all. Just my personal experience.
 
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Just wondering, how do East Asians do?

I have some friends who are Arabs (from Jordan), and I have never noticed them discriminating against anybody at all. Just my personal experience.

Wouldn't have a clue, but from what I have heard, if you have a "western" you get paid loads more than your "eastern" passport holder counterpart.

Its not the Arab people who are to be blamed for this though, its their government and companies. I have few Arab mates myself, very friendly people.
 
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South Asians Engineers getting 1/4th the pay of "White" Engineers isn't cause of few "bad people". Its institutionalized racism and discrimination.

It may be off topic, but have you seen the documentaries on NGC or Discovery Channel showing the making of Engineering marvels like Dubai Mall, Palm Islands, Burj Khalifa etc, where white man is shown doing everything from designing, building and commissioning while brown man is only shown as labours working under the supervision of whiteman but the reality is that Whiteman only forms may be 5% of the total work force with many top positions being help by people from South Asia who are conveniently ignored by the camera.
 
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