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Gujarat riots not an issue that should keep Modi from becoming PM: Narayana Murthy

That our political class is narrow-minded is no secret. That you have to cite political idiots to prove that point was a secret so far. We must be grateful for the revelation. Thank you.

papa shango,the jyotish.

free predictions flying off all orifices.

I take it you are an expert on orifices?

I am referring to the landed bengali class dominating government jobs,NRN belongs not to that class.

Regarding other stuff,u dont know anything.

I am still waiting for you to answer most of my posts,i dont value pussies and their opinions.

Err...I don't know which landed Bengali class you are referring to. It doesn't exist.

Maybe some more schooling is called for? Never too late for pussies.
 
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I'm no oracle, so let's see what happens. Perhaps you will get to say, "I told you so", perhaps not.

Dude!! Thinking about that day itself is scary.
 
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The same factor that makes Hindus think they can participate in riots and go scot-free. State patronage! If you're trying to ask me as to who started the first such riot, I'm afraid it's similar to asking whether the hen came first or the egg. If a muslim grup started riots, round them up and punish them, but don't complicate things further by increasing the scope of riots. How difficult is this logic to understand?
Damn Hindus! :omghaha: No wonder why our neighbors hate them :D Now we know why the Bengali/Indian
intelligentsia never stood up to protest when people where hounded out of Srinagar in cattle trucks in their thousands.
 
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Damn Hindus! :omghaha: No wonder why our neighbors hate them :D Now we know why the Bengali/Indian
intelligentsia never stood up to protest when people where hounded out of Srinagar in cattle trucks in their thousands.
What's so funny about Kashmiri Pandits having to leave their ancestral lands? Equally tragic that they too haven't received any justice.
 
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In the 1970s and early 80s,nobody gives up a secure job to do his own thing and that deserves a lot of credit,

It was so difficult to open a business and that too something unconventional as this.

Thats why most IITians ran away abroad.

NRN is not your neighbourhood Banya,he influenced a lot of people and he deserves credit.

There is a connection,in the licence raj the bureaucrats are the kings and today the scene is different.

And a lot of credit goes to NRN,The Bengali landed class are the symbols of raping the fortunes of West Bengal with Marxism and these guys sit and own acres and acres of farms,meanwhile teaching other peasants to fight for their rights.

People like Sitaram Yechury and such old morons of the CPM have killed Bengal and Kolkata effectively.

Now they are pissed that Kolkata is the worst amongst the big cities of India and they refuse to accept the blame.


You just give a lot of verbose gas like your Papa Shango(Joe Shearer),thats why we want to know what you are worth?

First, a lot of people, not just NRN, opened businesses in this sector. NRN, as you so affectionately refer to him, was lucky, as I have pointed out before, and luck has run out for his organisation. You talk about the license raj, but as usual with you, you know nothing. There were no license restrictions on the IT industry, except for those who manufactured within the country. Every single one of the big four, TCS, Wipro, HCL, Infosys, flourished outside and beyond the license raj. The bureaucrats had nothing to do with IT other than the export-import policy, neither helping it nor hindering it, and we were all of us glad about it. None of the credit, none, goes to NRN. He just floated along with the tide. It was L. N. Jha and a handful of visionaries who brought in the flood-in-flood-out policy that allowed computers to reach a critical mass, where before, each one had to be negotiated patiently through the bureaucracy of the customs department. It was Motorola that put up with the weird requirements of the Government of India relating to Software Technology Parks, and interested other US companies - the Europeans were Johnnies-come-lately, as were the Japanese - in coming to India to do business. And it was the diaspora that propelled the first wave of 'software exports', as outsourcing was then known.

You talk glibly about the Bengal landed class.

There is NO Bengal landed class any longer. Your kind of hysterical and completely inaccurate verbiage is the result of gathering facts from an occasional Satyajit Ray movie. Those days were in the 30s and 40s of the last century, for a while, during the 50s as well, and disappeared for ever with land reforms. NOBODY in Bengal owns acres and acres of farms; ask any one of your Bengali acquaintances, since it is obvious from your misguided venom that you have no Bengali friends, none who level with you at any rate, none apart from those who egg you on and watch the fun. We all know that the CPM idiots murdered Calcutta, and the state, along with a lot of idiots from the centre who designed laws and regulations that deliberately neutralised every single natural advantage that the state had. Since you so obviously know nothing about Bengal, you need a little education. You will find the answer to Bengal's decline if you look at the lists of ministers, under the Congress, the CPM and the TMC.

It is identical in caste composition.

Instead of blaming the CPM, you might do better to blame the three upper castes, who first partitioned the state, and who then ran every ministry between 1947 and now. That caste domination extends to the BJP. There is not a single BJP functionary in the Bengal BJP who does not come from those three.

That is the reality in Bengal. So what is your conclusion from that? That Modi will win there big time because he is not from one of the three upper castes? That he will win in the teeth of the opposition by the TMC to him, a TMC still influential outside the Calcutta chatterati? I doubt that you know, you just trot out whatever your fevered imagination provides you with cleverly disguised as evidence.

Boy! and people here still ask me why I take it to the next level with your replies. @Star Wars Care to explain how this is relevant to what Joe Shearer has said above and how civil the reasoning here has been? You entered in between like a referee, now preside over the tamasha!

She is really full of shit, but insists on equal air time.
 
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@Joe Shearer . I think you're taking an extreme position on NRN. Sure the right wing jokers will push this as 'endorsement' of modi but I don't think we should look at Infosys performance etc. on this. I think the explanation is more banal. Indian business leaders (specifically) think that what this country needs is to be run like a corporation. Having worked in major corporations (now approaching middish level positions), I know this kind of thinking is very prevalent- and I keep saying how wrong this is! States are not like corporations at all! NRN ha frequently shown this tendency and has frequently championed this idea. So 'CEO' type modi appeals to him.

And I don't think the American counterparts have any such delusions, they know what public office truly is!
 
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Sure..see you around. Bye & TC
Sorry for bailing out earlier, you know alcohol calls.
Now I would want to know how many ways are there to harass people (irrespective of religious groups)
 
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First, a lot of people, not just NRN, opened businesses in this sector. NRN, as you so affectionately refer to him, was lucky, as I have pointed out before, and luck has run out for his organisation. You talk about the license raj, but as usual with you, you know nothing. There were no license restrictions on the IT industry, except for those who manufactured within the country. Every single one of the big four, TCS, Wipro, HCL, Infosys, flourished outside and beyond the license raj. The bureaucrats had nothing to do with IT other than the export-import policy, neither helping it nor hindering it, and we were all of us glad about it. None of the credit, none, goes to NRN. He just floated along with the tide. It was L. N. Jha and a handful of visionaries who brought in the flood-in-flood-out policy that allowed computers to reach a critical mass, where before, each one had to be negotiated patiently through the bureaucracy of the customs department. It was Motorola that put up with the weird requirements of the Government of India relating to Software Technology Parks, and interested other US companies - the Europeans were Johnnies-come-lately, as were the Japanese - in coming to India to do business. And it was the diaspora that propelled the first wave of 'software exports', as outsourcing was then known.

You talk glibly about the Bengal landed class.

There is NO Bengal landed class any longer. Your kind of hysterical and completely inaccurate verbiage is the result of gathering facts from an occasional Satyajit Ray movie. Those days were in the 30s and 40s of the last century, for a while, during the 50s as well, and disappeared for ever with land reforms. NOBODY in Bengal owns acres and acres of farms; ask any one of your Bengali acquaintances, since it is obvious from your misguided venom that you have no Bengali friends, none who level with you at any rate, none apart from those who egg you on and watch the fun. We all know that the CPM idiots murdered Calcutta, and the state, along with a lot of idiots from the centre who designed laws and regulations that deliberately neutralised every single natural advantage that the state had. Since you so obviously know nothing about Bengal, you need a little education. You will find the answer to Bengal's decline if you look at the lists of ministers, under the Congress, the CPM and the TMC.

It is identical in caste composition.

Instead of blaming the CPM, you might do better to blame the three upper castes, who first partitioned the state, and who then ran every ministry between 1947 and now. That caste domination extends to the BJP. There is not a single BJP functionary in the Bengal BJP who does not come from those three.

That is the reality in Bengal. So what is your conclusion from that? That Modi will win there big time because he is not from one of the three upper castes? That he will win in the teeth of the opposition by the TMC to him, a TMC still influential outside the Calcutta chatterati? I doubt that you know, you just trot out whatever your fevered imagination provides you with cleverly disguised as evidence.

She is really full of shit, but insists on equal air time.

I want to know why most CPM bigwigs discuss poverty and communism happily when they themselves are neither regular farmers or workers.

I am talking about CPM alone,i see people of all castes in it as CPM cadre,i am not talking on the basis of caste or religion.

I have been to Bengal and even beyond to Assam,I am talking about the Naxalite movement,Charu Mazumdar,Inability to fight against Bangladeshi Immigration,supporting and hiding the same people who voted for a separate country,i am talking in general about the political culture of Bengal and the skewness of it.

I am not counting on Modi or BJP to win anything in Bengal so far,neither in Calcutta nor elsewhere.

I dont know the pulse of Bengalis and how they view the CPM or Mamta.

I know enough about Kerala and how things work there and their communist culture of talking and not working.

Bengal's decline is not your business but as a Bengali,you have to own upto it just like i have to own upto what happened in TamilNadu,even if my own family might have nothing to do with it.

I am not saying without NRN,there is no IT in India but as someone growing up in the 90s,the role of Infosys in creating aspirations amongst the children/students cant be ruled out.

He certainly didn't do charity and kept his brand and solved his needs of human capital but it is still worth everything.

My point about the Licence Raj is again proven as they watched things happen and do nothing about it because it was beyond their control.

Coming to the point here,as one of the main guys of Infosys,his opinion about Modi's governance and his ability in making processes efficient is worth its weight as against a common man's perception.
 
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@Joe Shearer . I think you're taking an extreme position on NRN. Sure the right wing jokers will push this as 'endorsement' of modi but I don't think we should look at Infosys performance etc. on this. I think the explanation is more banal. Indian business leaders (specifically) think that what this country needs is to be run like a corporation. Having worked in major corporations (now approaching middish level positions), I know this kind of thinking is very prevalent- and I keep saying how wrong this is! States are not like corporations at all! NRN ha frequently shown this tendency and has frequently championed this idea. So 'CEO' type modi appeals to him.

And I don't think the American counterparts have any such delusions, they know what public office truly is!

If I understood you correctly, you are saying that Narayan Murty is to be criticised for endorsing Modi, not because his management or his management records are bad, but because he is one of a deluded pack of company managers who have no clue about the difference between running a company and running a country .

Sure. You may be right. I may have expressed my discomfort in the wrong terms.
 
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I want to know why most CPM bigwigs discuss poverty and communism happily when they themselves are neither regular farmers or workers.

Go ask them. Why should I answer for their stupidity? If I had to, I would attribute it to their being f***ing Communist babus - in it for the regular employment and the predictable nature of work, and the guarantee of a lifelong job. But it's still for them to own up to it, not for a liberal democrat like me who loathes the BJP, the Congress and the CPM in that order.

I am talking about CPM alone,i see people of all castes in it as CPM cadre,i am not talking on the basis of caste or religion.

You mean once they are CPM, they lose caste and religion? Are you talking about the concept of declasse?

It's a mistake.

They remain caste-ridden scoundrels. You can't take caste out of Indian politics. We have a long way to go for that to happen: we need reservations to enable several generations more of the Dalit, we need these enabled generations to earn shoulder to shoulder with the upper castes, and be able to match vulgarities in social practices, during celebration of birth, weddings and death, in apparel, in choice of housing and transportation and entertainment and holiday destination, in every external vulgarity, in short, quite apart from achieving decent sufficiency in terms of health care and education and access to public services without undergoing grinding humiliation.

The Communists managed to make themselves superbly irrelevant by managing to cling on to caste, and by managing to make yet another occupation, at best a vocation, out of being full-time Communists.

And you are highly mistaken if you think Communism destroyed Bengal. Communists destroyed Bengal; they did it by committing a number of crimes against Marxism as it is known in the rest of the world, and adopting extreme populism coupled with organised, institutional kleptocracy.

I have been to Bengal and even beyond to Assam,I am talking about the Naxalite movement,Charu Mazumdar,Inability to fight against Bangladeshi Immigration,supporting and hiding the same people who voted for a separate country,i am talking in general about the political culture of Bengal and the skewness of it.

If you think all these things, you are a poster case of the defects of today's anti-humanist education, of the trouble with our steroid-driven growth of our education system.

Take your bugbears one at a time.

The Naxalites started as an agricultural, rural movement. The seeds of this were in the 40s and the 50s, in the 'tebhaga' movement, in the movement for limiting the landlord's share to one-third the produce (they used to take away half). Because none of the intervening governments actually reformed land-holding as they should have, and left huge tracts in the hands of the former zamindar, a condition that continues in most of north India and Andhra, share-croppers (=tenant farmers) fell further and further behind. Landlords took away vast proportions of the produce. Charu Mazumdar was a CPM activist who brought in the twenty-year old Tebhaga practices of chasing out or of killing landlords. His political interpretation of the objective condition of the Indian state was interesting, but since we are not discussing communist doctrine here, it is not relevant.

The mainstream party was appalled. It had been lectured and scolded by Stalin into cooperation with the Indian state, it had split at the time of Chinese aggression, into a sleepy and increasingly sidelined conservative wing which at times acted as the left wing of the Congress, and into a supposedly radical version, which was different only in that it took up trade unionism as the backbone of their movement, and it rapidly became hungry for exercising state power. Now, just as they were playing their end-game, some crazy radical out in a corner of the state starting killing policemen. So they expelled those radicals - Charu Mazumdar, and Kanu Sanyal and Jangal Santhal, and while you're at it, look at the castes - and set the police on them. The rest, as they say, was history.

Nothing Bengali about it. More or less the same things happened in a different sequence and with different, less publicly known figures, in Bihar, in Jharkhand, even in bucolic corners of Maharashtra, in Kerala, and hugely in Telangana and in Andhra.

Next on your list was the inability to fight against Bangladeshi immigration.

It happens when you are neighbouring a dirt poor country. In the 50s and 60s, East Pakistan was way behind West Bengal, for whatever reason (I don't want a Pakistani bucko jumping into the conversation with undeniable proof that Pakistan was richer then, is richer now and will be richer for ever in the future). So there was a constant trickle of people coming over, into Bengal, into Assam, heck, into Tripura. They were nurtured by local politicians, and they grew.

So how does this become something Bengali? I could argue with greater evidence on my side that it was typically Assamese.

Then you repeated yourself, so that was done.

Finally, the skewness of Bengali politics.

Huh? As compared to what? Had you really been following politics around the country? Apart from the Communist tag to the ruling party, what was distinctively Bengali about this situation?

I am not counting on Modi or BJP to win anything in Bengal so far,neither in Calcutta nor elsewhere.

Progress.

We'll cure you yet.

I dont know the pulse of Bengalis and how they view the CPM or Mamta.

That's great. That now qualifies you as an expert on matters within Bengal.

I know enough about Kerala and how things work there and their communist culture of talking and not working.

You summed up the problem I have. To you, the experience you have of communists in Kerala is now a general theme that can be applied to communists everywhere. How can we universalise it? Considering that the basics are so different in the two states, they are chalk and cheese.

I dont know the pulse of Bengalis and how they view the CPM or Mamta.

That's great. That now qualifies you as an expert on matters within Bengal.

Bengal's decline is not your business but as a Bengali,you have to own upto it just like i have to own upto what happened in TamilNadu,even if my own family might have nothing to do with it.

Once again, I am baffled. Why should I 'own' up to it, like some schoolboy acknowledging his authorship of a lake of blue-black ink?

I dont know the pulse of Bengalis and how they view the CPM or Mamta.

That's great. That now qualifies you as an expert on matters within Bengal.

I am not saying without NRN,there is no IT in India but as someone growing up in the 90s,the role of Infosys in creating aspirations amongst the children/students cant be ruled out.

He certainly didn't do charity and kept his brand and solved his needs of human capital but it is still worth everything.

My point about the Licence Raj is again proven as they watched things happen and do nothing about it because it was beyond their control.

Coming to the point here,as one of the main guys of Infosys,his opinion about Modi's governance and his ability in making processes efficient is worth its weight as against a common man's perception.

This last section is different in tenor from the others, and I shall answer it separately.
 
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Sorry for bailing out earlier, you know alcohol calls.
Now I would want to know how many ways are there to harass people (irrespective of religious groups)
Any and many number of ways. But people usually draw/recognize a pattern in cases involving religious/ethnic/economic groupings for obvious reasons.
 
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Any and many number of ways. But people usually draw/recognize a pattern in cases involving religious/ethnic/economic groupings for obvious reasons.
Totally Agree with that man, And I understand your apprehensions about Modi as well. But do you really think Shivraj chouhan/Dr Raman Singh/Nitish Kumar could pull a Modi against Congress? all the three candidate from NDA are from Bimaru states. Heck Nitish Kumar is literally begging for a special status for Bihar.
 
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Totally Agree with that man, And I understand your apprehensions about Modi as well. But do you really think Shivraj chouhan/Dr Raman Singh/Nitish Kumar could pull a Modi against Congress? all the three candidate from NDA are from Bimaru states. Heck Nitish Kumar is literally begging for a special status for Bihar.

Narendra Modi is popular not just for improving the economy of Gujarat and therein lies the problem. Factor this: If were it not for the 2002 violence, would Modiji become a household name in India inspite of good economic progress by Gujarat? In my view, it's a No.

From the list below, it's apparent that many states have achieved impressive growth rates like in Gujarat, but none of their CMs have been able to make a name outside their own state.
List of Indian states by GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Narendra Modi is popular not just for improving the economy of Gujarat and therein lies the problem. Factor this: If were it not for the 2002 violence, would Modiji become a household name in India inspite of good economic progress by Gujarat? In my view, it's a No.

From the list below, it's apparent that many states have achieved impressive growth rates like in Gujarat, but none of their CMs have been able to make a name outside their own state.
List of Indian states by GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes I agree Modi came into limelight after Godhara ... but after going through the list from the link you gave, you yourself tell me which of the CM you would have preferred as PM? Vilas Rao Deshmuk (RIP his soul)/ who ever is the current CM, Sheila Dixit, Didi, Amma? Look man I am not trying to convince you or anything but Modi did showed a sustained growth and over a period of time. But do you think Modi would have done anything far and beyond what BJP would have demanded of him after Godhara? Had it been Shivraj Chouhan/Raman Singh/Nitish in Modi's shoes he would have to follow the party ideology.
 
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