Grounding A-10s will save $4.2 billion, decision ‘clear’: USAF general

[Munir]

We helped them for nuclear reactors. Not nuclear weapons. An A-10 is a weapons platform. Does Japan have nuclear weapons when we provided the tech? No.

You provided them exception while they have not signed the basic treaties... Greed based politics. You provided them C130, Apache for Kashmir while they are occupying terrorizing millions. You would even sell your mother to earn cash or to counter China.

 

[Oldman1]

You provided them exception while they have not signed the basic treaties... Greed based politics. You provided them C130, Apache for Kashmir while they are occupying terrorizing millions. You would even sell your mother to earn cash or to counter China.

Okay we provided Pakistan C130s and F16s as well as Cobras. But we don't provide A-10s or AC-130 gunships. Nor do we sell nuclear submarines or aircraft carriers. So no we aren't as greedy as some countries or people like you who would sell your own mother.

 

[Munir]

Okay we provided Pakistan C130s and F16s as well as Cobras. But we don't provide A-10s or AC-130 gunships. Nor do we sell nuclear submarines or aircraft carriers. So no we aren't as greedy as some countries or people like you who would sell your own mother.

If you would not sell your mother why is the NSA spying on every one on earth. Even your most trusted and doggy allies like Germany... Man, your nation has no ethics. It had one day but after the cold war it has not even the ethics of a dictatorships. I am happy to see that some are daring to show the reality. Don't get me wring, I do not like Al Qaida, dictatorships but there is hardly much praise for so called democracies... In the end it is greed. In every aspect.

 

[Oldman1]

If you would not sell your mother why is the NSA spying on every one on earth. Even your most trusted and doggy allies like Germany... Man, your nation has no ethics. It had one day but after the cold war it has not even the ethics of a dictatorships. I am happy to see that some are daring to show the reality. Don't get me wring, I do not like Al Qaida, dictatorships but there is hardly much praise for so called democracies... In the end it is greed. In every aspect.

You have the ISI and they don't spy on everyone? Don't other countries spy on everyone? Some countries can't spy on everyone because of the technology they don't have.

 

[Munir]

What strikes me... These nations are so much filled with the principles of democracies. Yet these are the nations that mass murdered the original habitants... The Indians in USA are pretty much extinct. Same goes for Aboriginals. The Dutch with the mass slavery all over the world and colonial robbing in more then a few nations. UK did the same in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, The Spanish entire south american continent. Germand and Portugese in Africa... Japanese did nothing different in Asia during world war 2. And Israel is repeating nazism (oops Zionism) in Palestine. These nations have no ethics. These nations became rich by exploiting others. Don't start about their goodwill... There is no such thing as a free lunch.

You have the ISI and they don't spy on everyone? Don't other countries spy on everyone? Some countries can't spy on everyone because of the technology they don't have.

So if you have the technology to be evil then there is nothing wrong in being evil. That is your basic principle I guess... That explains it.

 

[gambit]

If you would not sell your mother why is the NSA spying on every one on earth. Even your most trusted and doggy allies like Germany... Man, your nation has no ethics. It had one day but after the cold war it has not even the ethics of a dictatorships. I am happy to see that some are daring to show the reality. Don't get me wring, I do not like Al Qaida, dictatorships but there is hardly much praise for so called democracies... In the end it is greed. In every aspect.

That is hilarious. If your ISI have the NSA's capabilities, your ISI would do the same things. In that respect, since it is a given that any country would do an NSA if possible, we are no more or less ethical than anyone.

Stop trying to portray everyone as saints. It only make you look childishly naive.

 

[Oldman1]

What strikes me... These nations are so much filled with the principles of democracies. Yet these are the nations that mass murdered the original habitants... The Indians in USA are pretty much extinct. Same goes for Aboriginals. The Dutch with the mass slavery all over the world and colonial robbing in more then a few nations. UK did the same in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, The Spanish entire south american continent. Germand and Portugese in Africa... Japanese did nothing different in Asia during world war 2. And Israel is repeating nazism (oops Zionism) in Palestine. These nations have no ethics. These nations became rich by exploiting others. Don't start about their goodwill... There is no such thing as a free lunch.



So if you have the technology to be evil then there is nothing wrong in being evil. That is your basic principle I guess... That explains it.

Are you saying the ISI is evil? Tracking down and locating the Taliban through cell phones and informants? Using technology and techniques.

 

[janon]

You provided them exception while they have not signed the basic treaties... Greed based politics. You provided them C130, Apache for Kashmir while they are occupying terrorizing millions. You would even sell your mother to earn cash or to counter China.

Umm...you do know that Pakistan has not signed the NPT either, but plans to produce nuclear energy with Chinese assistance, right? You do know that Chinese are setting up nuke plants in Pak right now or wil be in the near future, right? So does this rant about greed based politics and selling mothers for money also apply to your big daddy China, or is this selective moralizing reserved only for the USA?

As another poster pointed out, USA is selling us nuclear reactors or fuel for civilian use ony, and after we agreed to compartmenalize our civilian and military facilities, and also to fully open up the civilian ones to international scrutiny. In other words, strictly for electricity, and that can be verified by anybody. and BTW, so far only France and Russia have won contracts for nuclear tech and fuel, USA still has not. (Westinghouse might, in future.)

About selling us weapons like Apache and C-10s, where do your F-16s come from? The entire backbone of your credible air defence? Your AMRAAMs? Your frigates? Your artillery?

And that bit about Kashmir was unnecessary on this thread, but it seems that you don't realize that that is a Pakistani opinion and not a universal one, that we are suppressing Kashmiris or committing any atrocities there. As far as we are concerned, it is an integral part of our country, and they have as much freedoms and rights (actually more) as any other Indian citizen. So please take this whining about Kashmir to the appropriate thread, and I can assure you, the readers will listen to your opinions as sympathetically as the world has been doing all these years...If you know what I mean.

 

[Munir]

That is hilarious. If your ISI have the NSA's capabilities, your ISI would do the same things. In that respect, since it is a given that any country would do an NSA if possible, we are no more or less ethical than anyone.

Stop trying to portray everyone as saints. It only make you look childishly naive.

Naive? My friend. I never called you anything. Let us not become to personal.

The ISI works for others that do not want to be bombed back to the stone age. There was no Taleban before your cold war. It was created to counter Russian invasion by CIA/Zia. You love to connect Taleban with Al Qaida. Just like the idea of mass weapons in Irac back then. You know your Powell with his whatever white powder in UN session.

I understand you do not like to be hit on principles. But trust me. Neither do I like to see children being blown into pieces by your drone pilots in Nevada... You only just accepted that blacks are also human. You still have a big population that is not happy with the browny president. So if you want to teach others about ethics then there is nothing wrong giving you some reality back.

 

[janon]

What strikes me... These nations are so much filled with the principles of democracies. Yet these are the nations that mass murdered the original habitants... The Indians in USA are pretty much extinct. Same goes for Aboriginals. The Dutch with the mass slavery all over the world and colonial robbing in more then a few nations. UK did the same in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, The Spanish entire south american continent. Germand and Portugese in Africa... Japanese did nothing different in Asia during world war 2. And Israel is repeating nazism (oops Zionism) in Palestine. These nations have no ethics. These nations became rich by exploiting others. Don't start about their goodwill... There is no such thing as a free lunch.

What has any of this got to do with the grounding of the A-10s? If you want to rage against every injustice that has happened in the world, start a thread for that.

And yes, it is true that many nations have a bloody past and are guilty of grave crimes. including islamic invaders who raped the Indian subcontinent - curiously, I see you did not mention Afghans or Persians or Turks in your little rant, although Timur and Nadir Shah and the Ghaznis have done as much or more atrocities as the Europeans.

 

[Penguin]

As I said A-10 was designed in 1970-es. When there were no normal UAVs, no normal target pods, no SAR radars on planes, no GMTI radars...

So the only way to find and identify small ground targets was slow moving but armored plane. But nowdays we got all these. We can detect targets from distance and then destroy it again from safe distance either by Maverick/Brimstone if its single target or JSOW if its group target.

But if u are fighting against Libya u can still use A-10 and save expensive missiles.

F-16 dates from the same period. It is expected to do CAS, as A-10 is retired while F-35 not yet operational.... UAVs were getting started in the 1970s Targeting equipment was around (F111, A10), though not in pod form as we know it today.

Joint STARS evolved from separate United States Army and Air Force programs to develop, detect, locate and attack enemy armor at ranges beyond the forward area of troops. In 1982, the programs were merged and the U.S. Air Force became the lead agent. This means prior to 1982 there were seperate programs, probably well down to the 1970s.... so blah

Criticism that the U.S. Air Force did not take close air support (CAS) seriously prompted a few service members to seek a specialized attack aircraft.[5][6] In the Vietnam War, large numbers of ground-attack aircraft were shot down by small arms, surface-to-air missiles, and low-level anti-aircraft gunfire, prompting the development of an aircraft better able to survive such weapons. In addition, the UH-1 Iroquois and AH-1 Cobra helicopters of the day, which USAF commanders had said should handle close air support, were ill-suited for use against armor, carrying only anti-personnel machine guns and unguided rockets meant for soft targets. Fast jets such as the F-100 Super Sabre, F-105 Thunderchief and F-4 Phantom II proved for the most part to be ineffective for close air support because their high speed did not allow pilots enough time to get an accurate fix on ground targets and they lacked sufficient loiter time. The effective, but aging, Korean War era, A-1 Skyraider was the USAF's primary close air support aircraft.[7][8]

Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Americandissident]

I wonder who this general will be working for when he retires? Revolving door anyone??

 

[forcetrip]

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

 

[Penguin]

What strikes me... These nations are so much filled with the principles of democracies. Yet these are the nations that mass murdered the original habitants... The Indians in USA are pretty much extinct. Same goes for Aboriginals. The Dutch with the mass slavery all over the world and colonial robbing in more then a few nations. UK did the same in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, The Spanish entire south american continent. Germand and Portugese in Africa... Japanese did nothing different in Asia during world war 2. And Israel is repeating nazism (oops Zionism) in Palestine. These nations have no ethics. These nations became rich by exploiting others. Don't start about their goodwill... There is no such thing as a free lunch.

History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Slavery can be traced back to the earliest records, such as the Code of Hammurabi (c. 1760 BC), which refers to it as an established institution. ...

Evidence of slavery predates written records, the practice of slavery would have proliferated after the development of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution about 11,000 years ago.

Slavery was known in civilizations as old as Sumer, as well as almost every other ancient civilization, including Ancient Egypt, Ancient China, the Akkadian Empire, Assyria, Ancient India, Ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, the Islamic Caliphate, and the pre-Columbian civilizations of the Americas.
...
Although slavery is no longer legal anywhere in the world, human trafficking remains an international problem and an estimated 29.8 million persons are living in illegal slavery today"

Included is a section on the role of Islamic powers in slavery. Likewise Mongols... Soviet Union.

As for genocide of indigenous peoples, please also inform yourself
Indigenous peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Genocide of indigenous peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[airmarshal]

Give us two squadrons of those planes. They are still very effective.