Gripen exports......

[Mosamania]

Its a old plane its history now

I really hate posts like that, there is no such thing as an old plane, it is only old if the regional or international rivals of a country that has them make them obsolete, otherwise a Mig-21 can be considered a state of the art for a nation that has all its rivals fielding P-51s.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well Gripen was tested , it was blow our needs and then India tested and they did not like the plane either so clearly it was below par of major airforces of world

Recently they did updated few technologies on plane however its parts are split between many nations and having a national program to make own plane is alot sensible for Pakistan

 

[Bang Galore]

Well Gripen was tested , it was blow our needs and then India tested and they did not like the plane either so clearly it was below par of major airforces of world

You have to put in perspective. India tested it against heavier aircraft, a bit illogical imo. It won't be the best fighter in the world but it will be a damn good one at its price.

 

[Mosamania]

Well Gripen was tested , it was blow our needs and then India tested and they did not like the plane either so clearly it was below par of major airforces of world

Recently they did updated few technologies on plane however its parts are split between many nations and having a national program to make own plane is alot sensible for Pakistan

It serves a totally different role than traditional fighter jet power houses. The thing that has most going for it is the price tag, of course a 40M$ aircraft won't hold a candle next to a 100M+ aircraft. It doesn't mean its old, what that means is that it has a different role and a different market.

 

[Luftwaffe]

It won't be the best fighter in the world but it will be a damn good one at its price.

At $65m baseline never a good price it should be around 40m which it is not.

It serves a totally different role than traditional fighter jet power houses. The thing that has most going for it is the price tag, of course a 40M$ aircraft won't hold a candle next to a 100M+ aircraft. It doesn't mean its old, what that means is that it has a different role and a different market.

It serves the air superiority primary role with A2G secondary but than almost most aircraft have the potential to be A2G roles so I don't see it to serve any different role from any other 4th/4++ Gen not every country can keep different aircrafts for different roles. The price you quote is wrong Janes Defence and other reputable sites claim the price to be around $65-70m that is too much, comparatively If F-16 Block 50/52 has such a price it is world premier widely used aircraft will largest support Internationally. I would say F-35 has reduced some of the Scandinavian/European aircraft programs extension like rafale and gripen my opinion is some day sweden and french are going for F-35 in limited number as well while operating their own rafales/gripens it has become the need for the future generation.

 

[C130]

I want to like the Gripen, but I just don't see it doing anything other air policing the boarders.
might as well go with the Textron Scorpion instead
Scorpion: The Budget-Priced American Fighter Jet

give it a decent lightweight radar like EL/M-2032 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia two AMRAAMS and two AIM-9X and wahlaaa you got air policing jet.

only downside is it isn't supersonic.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Since that the discussion has moved away from Rafale and MMRCA, this thread might be more suitable.



The initial requirement for new Gripens stated by the Swedish government in 2012 was 40 to 60 fighters, which later lead to the contract to upgrade 60 x Gripen C/Ds to E level + produce 22 x complete new E's for Switzerland. That's what the Saab presentation showed in 2013, but with the development delays of the E's and backing out of Switzerland things have changed and the recent reports makes clear that 60 new once will be ordered, but not in addition to the current C/D fleet, but as replacements for Gripen C/Ds that should be leased to Switzerland, or now to Brazil, Malaysia or some eastern European countries now. So the total requirement of E's remains pretty much the same between 40 to 60, but it depends purely on export interest how many C/Ds will be leased or how many E's from the order of 60 will be diverted, because Swedish Air Force will not add 60 fighters to the existing fleet. Currently the interest in 2nd hand C/D's seems to be higher than in newly E's that might be costlier now than expected and might not be able to provide the spects that Saab's PR promised. The C/Ds however with the latest upgrades, that includes METEOR and SDB, will be an excellent choice for the needs of most of the smaller nations or as a gap filler.

The Swedish Air Force will have 70 Gripen E at the end of the day.
As Gripen-E are phased in, Gripen-C/Ds will be phased out and can be leased out to others.
Any orders for Gripen-E (like Brazil) will be on top of these planes.

So when does Gripen E make first flight so Brazil can have its planes?

They have to order first , but 2020 seems likely for deliveries.
The demonstrator is already flying.

 

[Penguin]

Well Gripen was tested , it was blow our needs and then India tested and they did not like the plane either so clearly it was below par of major airforces of world

Recently they did updated few technologies on plane however its parts are split between many nations and having a national program to make own plane is alot sensible for Pakistan

Senior Indian Air Force officials, while happy with the improved capabilities of Gripen NG, identified its high reliance on US-supplied hardware, including electronics, weaponry and the GE F414 engine, as a weakness
Air Force gives Gripen fighter a second chance | Business Standard
Air Force gives Gripen fighter a second chance | Business Standard News

IN Netherlands, Denmark and Norway there was US pressure for F-35 (besides, NL is one of the four original F-35 partners, and Denmark is a level 3 partner). POland went for late model F16: the choice to go with the F-16 was heavily influenced by a lucrative offset agreement by Lockheed Matron , and political emphasis placed on the strategic relationship between Poland, the US, and NATO. Gripen ahd been selected in Switzerland but was turned down BY REFERENDUM. Apparently the Swiss people thought is not wise to invest in manned aviation.

(i.e. in all these cases no reflection on Gripen per se)

Austria also considered the Saab JAS-39 Gripen, Dassault Mirage 2000-5, Boeing/MDD F/A-18C/D, the Eurofighter Typhoon and an export variant of the MiG-29. The Rafale was not being considered. After a round of talks with the different manufacturers, the Austrian government finally decided to purchase 18 Eurofighter Typhoon fighters to update their air defenses. After major flooding occurred in 2002, this decision was put on hold, but in 2003 the finla go-ahead of the project was announced.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Well Gripen was tested , it was blow our needs and then India tested and they did not like the plane either so clearly it was below par of major airforces of world

Recently they did updated few technologies on plane however its parts are split between many nations and having a national program to make own plane is alot sensible for Pakistan

Pakistan has never evaluated Gripen-E AFAIK.

Gripen-E was sorted out in the Indian Air Force MMRCA tender simply because it was not available
in the time frame the IAF wanted deliveries. All other points are irrelevant.
Beeing two engine, Rafale/EF may be preferred by IAF due to certain characteristics

Each Air Force has their own criteria for selections, and one country may have different criteria than another,
so other Air Forces may choose differently.

Does Switzerland need very long range? Think Not.
Is twin engines a requirement or low cost operation?
Turn Around time on the ground? Very good for Gripen, more time in the air.
Can I use my inventory of missiles and can I get the weapons I want? (Rafale tends to use French only)
The Gripen-E AESA radar, beeing newer than the one on Rafale seems to have some more features.

As for exports, the US can of course throw sand in the gear.
If they want to stop the Tejas, they can stop access to the engine.
Most if not all countries they would stop would not be permissible anyway.

I want to like the Gripen, but I just don't see it doing anything other air policing the boarders.
might as well go with the Textron Scorpion instead
Scorpion: The Budget-Priced American Fighter Jet

give it a decent lightweight radar like EL/M-2032 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia two AMRAAMS and two AIM-9X and wahlaaa you got air policing jet.

only downside is it isn't supersonic.

You dont scare away Su-27s with that piece of junk.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Gripen may have been improved but it missed the boat , for now Sweden has wonderful products , just that we were forced to change directions due to what was on table for us

 

[Penguin]

Gripen may have been improved but it missed the boat , for now Sweden has wonderful products , just that we were forced to change directions due to what was on table for us

JAS 39, first flying in 1988, entered service with the Swedish Air Force in 1997. Upgraded variants, featuring more advanced avionics and adaptations for longer mission times, began entering service in 2003

• Empty weight: 6,800 kg[ (12,600 lb)

• Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)

• Max. takeoff weight: 14,000 kg (31,000 lb)

• Combat radius: 800 km (497 mi, 432 nmi)

• Ferry range: 3,200 km (1,983 mi) with drop tanks

• Payload: 5,300 kg (11,700 lb)

Rafale first flew in July 1986, Originally scheduled to enter service in 1996. Rafale M Carrier-borne version for the Aéronavale, which entered service in 2001. Rafales were delivered to the French Air Force several years after the naval variant (2006-2007).

• Empty weight:
  • C: 9,500 kilograms (20,900 lb)
  • B: 9,770 kilograms (21,540 lb)
  • M: 10,196 kilograms (22,480 lb)

• Loaded weight: 14,016 kg (30,900 lb)

• Max. takeoff weight: 24,500 kg (C/D), 22,200 kg (M) (54,000 lb)

• Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi) with 3 drop tanks

• Combat radius: 1,852+ km (1,000+ nmi) on penetration mission

• 9,500 kg (20,900 lb) external fuel and ordnance

The maiden flight of the Eurofighter prototype took place in Bavaria on 27 March 1994. On 4 August 2003, Germany accepted the first series production Eurofighter (GT003). On 16 December 2005, the Typhoon reached initial operational capability (IOC) with the Italian Air Force. On 9 August 2007, the RAF had taken delivery of its first two multi-role Typhoons.

• Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)

• Loaded weight: 16,000 kg (35,270 lb)

• Max. takeoff weight: 23,500 kg (51,800 lb)

• Range: 2,900 km (1,800 mi)

• Combat radius: **Ground attack, lo-lo-lo: 601 km (325 nmi)
  • Ground attack, hi-lo-hi: 1,389 km (750 nmi)
  • Air defence with 3-hr combat air patrol: 185 km (100 nmi)
  • Air defence with 10-min. loiter: 1,389 km (750 nmi) [295][306]

• Ferry range: >3,790 km (2,350 mi (with 3 drop tanks))

• up to 7,500 kg (16,500 lb) of payload

Very different European aircraft, designed for meeting very different demands. Reflected in combat ranges and payloads. Rafale and Typhoon obviously much more similar than Gripen, which is more akin to the F-16C Block 50 ( and many NATO operators will replace this with F-35).

• Empty weight: 18,900 lb (8,570 kg)

• Loaded weight: 26,500 lb (12,000 kg)

• Max. takeoff weight: 42,300 lb (19,200 kg)

• Combat radius: 340 mi (295 nmi, 550 km) on a hi-lo-hi mission with four 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs

• Ferry range: 2,280 nmi (2,620 mi, 4,220 km) with drop tanks

• up to 17,000 lb (7,700 kg) of stores

 

[sancho]

As Gripen-E are phased in, Gripen-C/Ds will be phased out and can be leased out to others.

Which is why I said from the start, that Sweden can't afford to have too many Gripens. The total fleet number will remain between 80 and 100 and the number of E's in the Swedish Air Force, will mainly be dependent on selling C's.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Which is why I said from the start, that Sweden can't afford to have too many Gripens. The total fleet number will remain between 80 and 100 and the number of E's in the Swedish Air Force, will mainly be dependent on selling C's.

Also wrong.
Based on current government decisions,
the number of Gripen-E for the Swedish Air Force will be 70 (60+10),
and none of the Gripen C/D will be kept in service.
There may be a period of overlap, but thats it.

It is expected that this decision will hold, even though the current
government resigned after the elections in September.

The planes ordered for the Swedish Air Force are not available for other Air Force deals,
at least not until late in their life cycle. Brazil will get their aircraft outside these 70 planes.

Existing Gripen C/D will of course be available for lease/purchase.

Gripen may have been improved but it missed the boat , for now Sweden has wonderful products , just that we were forced to change directions due to what was on table for us

Plenty of boats in the sea...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The only thing we might need is perhaps another Saab Erie Eye AWAC

 

[Luftwaffe]

The only thing we might need is perhaps another Saab Erie Eye AWAC

No the only thing we need is to invest and develop on our own.