What's new

Greeks defy Europe with overwhelming referendum 'No'

jhungary

MILITARY PROFESSIONAL
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
19,295
Reaction score
387
Country
China
Location
Australia
Greeks have voted overwhelmingly to reject terms of a bailout, risking financial ruin in a show of defiance that could splinter Europe.

With nearly half of the votes counted, official figures showed 61 percent of Greeks rejecting the bailout offer. An official interior ministry projection confirmed the figure as close to the expected final tally.
The astonishingly strong victory by the 'No' camp overturned opinion polls that had predicted an outcome too close to call. It leaves Greece in uncharted waters: risking financial and political isolation within the euro zone and a banking collapse if creditors refuse further aid.

greece_bailout_vote_pm.jpg

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras arrives at an anti-austerity rally in Syntagma Square in Athens, Greece. Tsipras rejected claims that Greeks will be deciding on their future in the euro zone in a referendum on Sunday, saying negotiations will continue for a better deal with lenders after the vote. Photo: REUTERS/Alkis Konstantinidis
But for millions of Greeks the outcome was an angry message to creditors that Greece can longer accept repeated rounds of austerity that, in five years, had left one in four without a job. Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has denounced the price paid for aid as "blackmail" and a national "humiliation".
Hundreds of Greeks began pouring into the central Syntagma square in front of parliament to celebrate, after a week of building desperation as banks were shut and cash withdrawals rationed to prevent a collapse of the Greek financial system.

"This is an imprint of the will of the Greek people and now it's up to Europeans to show if they respect our opinion and want to help," said Nikos Tarasis, a 23-year-old student.
greece_bailout_vote_scenarios.jpg

What could happen in a "yes" or "no" vote scenario after Sunday's referendum. Photo: REUTERS
Officials from the Greek government, which had argued that a 'No' vote would strengthen its hand to secure a better deal from international creditors after months of wrangling, immediately said they would try to restart talks with European partners.

"I believe there is no Greek today who is not proud, because regardless of what he voted he showed that this country above all respects democracy," Labour Minister Panos Skourletis said.

"The government now has a strong mandate, a strong negotiating card, to bring a deal which will open new ways."

But euro zone officials shot down any prospect of a quick resumption of talks. One official said there were no plans for an emergency meeting of euro zone finance ministers on Monday, adding the vote outcome meant the ministers "would not know what to discuss".

Many of Athens' partners have warned over the past week that a 'No' vote would mean cutting bridges with Europe and driving Greece's crippled financial system into outright bankruptcy, dramatically worsening the country's economic depression.
greece_bailout_vote_supportes.jpg

Supporters of the No vote react after the first results of the referendum at Syntagma square in Athens, Sunday, July 5, 2015. Greece faced an uncharted future as its interior ministry predicted Sunday that more than 60 percent of voters in a hastily called referendum had rejected creditors' demands for more austerity in exchange for rescue loans. Photo: AP/Petros Karadjias
The result also delivers a hammer blow to the European Union's grand single currency project. Intended to be permanent and unbreakable when it was created 15 years ago, the euro zone could now be on the point of losing its first member with the risk of further unraveling to come.

"I believe such a result can be used as a strong negotiating tool so that Europeans can understand that we are not a colony," said Nefeli Dimou, a 23-year-old student in Athens.

Greek banks, which have been closed all week and rationing withdrawals from cash machines, are expected to run out of money within days unless the European Central Bank provides an emergency lifeline.
Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis is due to meet top Greek bankers later on Sunday and State Minister Nikos Pappas, one of Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras's closest aides, said it was "absolutely necessary" to restore liquidity to the banking system now that the vote is over.

However the European Central Bank, which holds a conference call on Monday morning, may be reluctant to increase emergency lending to Greek banks after voters rejected the spending cuts and economic reforms which creditors consider essential to make Greek public finances viable, central bankers said.

The world awaits results of Greek debt referendum

First indications were that any joint European political response may take a couple of days. German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande will meet in Paris on Monday afternoon. The European Commission, the EU executive, meets in Strasbourg on Tuesday and will report to the European Parliament on the situation.

"EU leaders must get together immediately, even on Monday. The situation is too serious to leave to finance ministers," said Axel Schaefer, a deputy head of the Social Democrat (SPD) group in the German parliament.

"You have to have confidence in the ability of the ECB to act. We must use all the possibilities in the EU budget to help Greece, which is still a member of the euro and the EU."
greece_bailout_vote_iflags.jpg

The Greek, right, and the European flags wave under the ancient Acropolis hill in Athens, Sunday, July 5, 2015. Greeks lined up at polling stations and ATMs alike Sunday as the country voted on its financial future, choosing in a referendum whether to accept creditors' demands for more austerity in return for rescue loans or defiantly reject the deal. Photo: AP/Petr David Josek
UNCHARTED
A 'No' vote puts Greece and the euro zone in uncharted waters. Unable to borrow money on capital markets, Greece has one of the world's highest levels of public debt. The International Monetary Fund warned last week that it would need massive debt relief and 50 billion euros in fresh funds.

Greek officials see the IMF report as a vital support for their argument that the bailout terms as they stood would merely have driven Greece further into depression.

Tsipras called the referendum eight days ago after rejecting the tough terms offered by international creditors as the price for releasing billions of euros in bailout funds.

Tourists in Greece witness history

He denounced the bailout terms as an "ultimatum" and his argument that a 'No' vote would allow the government to get a better deal appears to have convinced many Greeks, particularly among younger voters who have been ravaged by unemployment levels of nearly 50 percent.

"I have been jobless for nearly four years and was telling myself to be patient," said 43-year-old Eleni Deligainni, who said she voted 'No'. "But we've had enough deprivation and unemployment."
Opinion polls over the months have shown a large majority of Greeks want to remain in the euro.
But, exhausted and angry after five years of cuts, falling living standards and rising taxes imposed under successive bailout programs, many appear to have shrugged off the warnings of disaster, trusting that a deal can still be reached.
greece_bailout_vote_woman_peace.jpg

Athens (AFP) - Cheering and chanting, thousands of Greeks who voted to say 'No' to bailout austerity measures crowded into central Athens on Sunday to celebrate a landslide referendum victory. Photo: AP
Scenes of joy as Greece's 'No' voters celebrate victory
Cheering and chanting, thousands of Greeks who voted to say 'No' to bailout austerity measures crowded into central Athens on Sunday to celebrate a landslide referendum victory, seemingly oblivious to the threats facing the near-insolvent country.

Punching the air, the 'No' camp exulted as the news came through that at least 60 percent of voters had rejected international creditors' demands.

"I'm so happy," said 37-year old Dima Rousso, adding that she hadn't expected there to be such a clear margin between the 'No' votes and the 'Yes' votes.

"This is Europe's chance to become what it should have been in the beginning," she said.
greece_bailout_vote_woman.jpg

Punching the air, the 'No' camp exulted as the news came through that at least 60 percent of voters had rejected international creditors' demands. Photo: AP
Young couples kissed at the fountain in front of parliament in the symbolic Syntagma square, the scene of violent anti-austerity riots in the past, as teens drove by on scooters, blaring their horns, Greek flags held high and streaming in the wind.

"This is a victory for the Greek people, a chance for Europe," said Giorgos, 25, who had rushed along with his girlfriend to join some 6,000 people celebrating their triumph.

"Spain, and then Portugal, should follow this path. We're for a Europe of the people," he said, brushing off concerns the result could see the debt-laden country plunge further into the financial mire.

There was no mention of the scenes repeated across Greece this week of closed banks and food stockpiling that left supermarket shelves bare. While the future was unknown, for many celebrating on the streets it now had a fresh glow of hope.

Morning news break – July 6

Greeks defy Europe with overwhelming referendum No - Yahoo7
 
.
What the hell is the Greek Thinking??

Can anyone enlighten us a bit?? @As is - where is

Do they really expect a "Better Deal" by saying No? Saying No to the audacity package would most definitely result in Grexit and Bankrupt to follow, can they actually see that??
 
.
Greece should pull out of NATO/European Union and become an independent country.

Instead of Greece, Europe should let the Republic of Turkey to enter the European Union, as it will benefit EU and Turkey will not become a burden in Europe as well.

EU needs new leadership and British-Turkey-Italy, along with France and Germany will provide that necessary leadership.
 
. .
What the hell is the Greek Thinking??

Can anyone enlighten us a bit?? @As is - where is

Do they really expect a "Better Deal" by saying No? Saying No to the audacity package would most definitely result in Grexit and Bankrupt to follow, can they actually see that??

They are just looking out for their interests. They seek a better repayment deal. The Greeks screwed and are kind of like Pakistan when it comes to loans from IMF/ECB and the rest. Eventually both parties will come to an agreement. Right now it's sour grapes and a lot of emotions. Once sanity prevails you'll see that both sides will give and take.
 
.
Greeks probably want to get away with not paying their taxes.
 
.
They are just looking out for their interests. They seek a better repayment deal. The Greeks screwed and are kind of like Pakistan when it comes to loans from IMF/ECB and the rest. Eventually both parties will come to an agreement. Right now it's sour grapes and a lot of emotions. Once sanity prevails you'll see that both sides will give and take.

Fact is, with 3 (or 4 I forgot) audacity package they are YET to repay the debt, I don't think refusing the creditor demand is a good move. The creditor have literally NOTHING to lose as they weren't even looking at Greek Can even repay the interest with this package, they say no will lead to a certain refusal to continue the debt. It will default Greece.

Greece is not in any strong position to negotiate a "better deal" certainly not with this kind of hooligan move, by threatening the creditor....Greece is no USA

greece_bailout_vote_scenarios.jpg
 
.
Fact is, with 3 (or 4 I forgot) audacity package they are YET to repay the debt, I don't think refusing the creditor demand is a good move. The creditor have literally NOTHING to lose as they weren't even looking at Greek Can even repay the interest with this package, they say no will lead to a certain refusal to continue the debt. It will default Greece.

Greece is not in any strong position to negotiate a "better deal" certainly not with this kind of hooligan move, by threatening the creditor....Greece is no USA

View attachment 235352

Well, Greece has Europe literally by its balls. You know how long these negotiations have been going on for now? The creditors could have easily dumped Greece a long time ago. Yet, they haven't done that. There are multiple reasons for that, but the most important being that Europe doesn't want Greece to exit. Secondly, it wants its money back. No matter how sour things are, the EU along with the creditors are going to do everything in their power to reach a deal with Greece. You'll see.

This is how it is going to unfold:

Regardless of the outcome of the referendum both parties are going renegotiate. Both parties will reach a consensus. Both parties will soften their stance and take what is on offer. Greece will remain part of the EU like nothing ever happened... In short, Greece cannot live without the EU and the EU cannot afford to lose Greece for various political and economical reasons.
 
.
And what would they do if creditors say no?

Greece is in no position to demand, beggars can't be choosers, sorry to put it this way but you have nothing in leverage. If the EU kicks you out the austerity cuts are the last thing you would have to worry about.
 
.
And what would they do if creditors say no?

Greece is in no position to demand, beggars can't be choosers, sorry to put it this way but you have nothing in leverage. If the EU kicks you out the austerity cuts are the last thing you would have to worry about.

That is a big if and only an imagination on your part.
 
. . .
Well, Greece has Europe literally by its balls. You know how long these negotiations have been going on for now? The creditors could have easily dumped Greece a long time ago. Yet, they haven't done that. There are multiple reasons for that, but the most important being that Europe doesn't want Greece to exit. Secondly, it wants its money back. No matter how sour things are, the EU along with the creditors are going to do everything in their power to reach a deal with Greece. You'll see.

This is how it is going to unfold:

Regardless of the outcome of the referendum both parties are going renegotiate. Both parties will reach a consensus. Both parties will soften their stance and take what is on offer. Greece will remain part of the EU like nothing ever happened... In short, Greece cannot live without the EU and the EU cannot afford to lose Greece for various political and economical reasons.

The problem are, in any financial system, there are a "Time to Live" for all debt to be write off, because the resource to keep recovering from debt would be greater by date and by the time the cost of recovery with interest are actually larger than the debt itself, that is the cut off time for the loan to be write off, simply because it is going to take more money to recover the money that debtor owe.

Look at the chart. on Post 7.

The debt Greece Government owe this month is 8.03 bln Euro, but only 6 bln or so are the actual debt, the other are cost associate with the debt, which generate after the debt itself.

Problem now is when the time has come to a critical point, with everyday past, the debt is going to roll higher, and to a point when the debt itself is out range by the associate cost, then the creditor would default the loan and bankrupt the Greece Banking system.

The question should not be How Greece NEGOTIATE for a better deal, but rather How Greece actually PAYS OFF the debt to avoid it to be write off and get into default, and that have nothing to do with negotiate a better deal. The better deal for Greece is not to repay the loan...

And what would they do if creditors say no?

Greece is in no position to demand, beggars can't be choosers, sorry to put it this way but you have nothing in leverage. If the EU kicks you out the austerity cuts are the last thing you would have to worry about.

Creditor Say No, debt will be written off as bad debt, Greece are going into default, and since Euro cannot allow a default country as a guarantor to their currency, Greece will be asked to exit Eurozone. Greece will then be ask to issue their own currency and any day before that currency set out to market, the Greece have to operate on 0 budget (no currency to pay any service) so either before the currency saturate the market, either the Greece government stop working or Issue a bond like IOU for workers to keep the government working.

The fiscal year of 2015 will be wipe out as the tax collected during 2014 to 2015 is Euro, which no longer in legal tender, and before the country have enough equatity to establish an exchange rate with Euro, those are worth nothing to them.

politically, the PM will be asked to step down for this debacle and the unified government will be in hot water, and Greece May be ask to exit EU as their finacial system in ruin and may create employment to security problem within Greece
 
.
Greeks and their laziness :hitwall::hitwall:
The only one to blame here for their situation is themselves but now they are literally blackmailing Europe, lets see what Germany says since they are the ones lending most amount of money.
 
.
@jhungary. Even if they get the deal and the loan, they will just be kicking the can further down the road. Greek will never be able to repay the loan begin with.
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom