Featured Greece to Buy 18 Rafale Fighters, Four New Frigates to Boost Defense

[TNT]

Greece is no match for Turkey. That is why they are tagging along France. But france is not reliable, france knows that it is a midget and if giants get involved, midgets will have to run and hide.
If france gets too involved in the region, be assured that Turkey will get the chinese or russians involved in east med. France will then have to cut its involvement in south china sea. Someone here pointed Turkish NATO membership in jeopardy. The moment Turkey leaves NATO or is removed, they will do nuclear tests. With all the Europe in its range, i doubt france or any other European country will dare mess with Turkey.

 

[Foinikas]

Greece is no match for Turkey. That is why they are tagging along France.

France was the only European power that stood by us through Erdogan's provocations the last 3 years.
The Germans kept their typical pro-Turkish stance,the Italians and the Spanish were neutral,the British don't care anymore.
Only countries like Austria,Hungary and Poland supported as well.

But france is not reliable, france knows that it is a midget and if giants get involved, midgets will have to run and hide.

Then who is reliable? The Americans abandoned the Kurds in 2019 and the Russians abandoned the Armenians last year.

If france gets too involved in the region, be assured that Turkey will get the chinese or russians involved in east med.

The Russians will not protect the Turks in a war. They don't forget what the Turks did in Syria and they don't forget that Erdogan's government opposes their plans in Libya and his meddling in Russia's affairs about Crimea,the Tatars and his support for Ukraine by selling them weapons,specifically ships and drones. They have a buiseness relationship and he uses the Turks against the Americans,but they are not allies.

China? China will not do anything to help Turkey in a war. The Chinese have their own problems now in their area and they don't forget Erdogan's Uyghur nagging. When was the last time they got involved in a war far away in the last 50 years? And why would they go against France when they know the French are angry at AUKUS?

he moment Turkey leaves NATO or is removed, they will do nuclear tests. With all the Europe in its range, i doubt france or any other European country will dare mess with Turkey.

The moment Turkey leaves NATO and ESPECIALLY if they do nuclear tests....they are open season for any NATO power to smash them. The Americans mostly.

 

[TNT]

China? China will not do anything to help Turkey in a war. The Chinese have their own problems now in their area and they don't forget Erdogan's Uyghur nagging. When was the last time they got involved in a war far away in the last 50 years? And why would they go against France when they know the French are angry at AUKUS?

France can help u so long as it doesnt damage them. If they sense danger, they will abandon u or anyone.
China sees most of Europe as enemy, even if for now france is angry at aukus, they r still anti chinese. Its not abt help in war, its abt the scenarios before war. France sends its ship to taiwan strait and the midget thinks it can provoke china. Turkey and china are way closer now, thanks to Pakistan. Turkey even deported wanted uighers to china, shows the growing understanding between them. The last time france sent ships to south china sea, there was a discussion in china about sending ships to the Mediterranean. Once Turkey invites china to the Mediterranean, france will be shitting bricks. As far as i know, china have a solid plan in the Mediterranean and it involves Turkey as well as Pakistan and libya. Just a matter of when.

The moment Turkey leaves NATO and ESPECIALLY if they do nuclear tests....they are open season for any NATO power to smash them. The Americans mostly.

No u cannot smash a nuclear power, especially if all of europe is in its range. Turkey has protection of NATO now but the moment thays gone, they will require nuclear deterrent. There are already contacts between Turkey and Pakistan and in case of a sudden exit from NATO, Pakistan may even provide them with nuclear warheads. Tell me who will be stupid enough to smash Turkey when they have nukes? The western Europeans have developed too much to just lose it to a stupidity. The poor eastern Europeans have no chance.

 

[Foinikas]

France can help u so long as it doesnt damage them. If they sense danger, they will abandon u or anyone.
China sees most of Europe as enemy, even if for now france is angry at aukus, they r still anti chinese. Its not abt help in war, its abt the scenarios before war. France sends its ship to taiwan strait and the midget thinks it can provoke china. Turkey and china are way closer now, thanks to Pakistan. Turkey even deported wanted uighers to china, shows the growing understanding between them. The last time france sent ships to south china sea, there was a discussion in china about sending ships to the Mediterranean. Once Turkey invites china to the Mediterranean, france will be shitting bricks. As far as i know, china have a solid plan in the Mediterranean and it involves Turkey as well as Pakistan and libya. Just a matter of when.

But France's interests will be damaged if Turkey attacks Greece or Cyprus. Thinking that China will come to aid Turkey is just wishful thinking. China will not get involved in a potential world war to protect Turkey. North Korea? Maybe. Pakistan? Maybe. One of their Indochina client-States? Perhaps. But Turkey? Let's be realistic. Come on.

No u cannot smash a nuclear power, especially if all of europe is in its range. Turkey has protection of NATO now but the moment thays gone, they will require nuclear deterrent. There are already contacts between Turkey and Pakistan and in case of a sudden exit from NATO, Pakistan may even provide them with nuclear warheads. Tell me who will be stupid enough to smash Turkey when they have nukes? The western Europeans have developed too much to just lose it to a stupidity. The poor eastern Europeans have no chance.

But Turks don't have nuclear weapons. They don't have nuclear power and USA and Western Europeans,Israel and probably Russia too,will make sure they don't get any nuclear weapons. If Pakistan made the mistake to provide Turkey with nuclear warheads or the means to produce nuclear weapons...that would be the end of Pakistan. It would be a diplomatic,economic,proxy and even conventional war against Pakistan by big powers and dozens of other countries and factions involved. It would be chaos.

You can't fathom the fact that France can keep Turkish aggressive policies in check and you imagine things. Come on,man.

 

[TNT]

But France's interests will be damaged if Turkey attacks Greece or Cyprus. Thinking that China will come to aid Turkey is just wishful thinking. China will not get involved in a potential world war to protect Turkey. North Korea? Maybe. Pakistan? Maybe. One of their Indochina client-States? Perhaps. But Turkey? Let's be realistic. Come on.


But Turks don't have nuclear weapons. They don't have nuclear power and USA and Western Europeans,Israel and probably Russia too,will make sure they don't get any nuclear weapons. If Pakistan made the mistake to provide Turkey with nuclear warheads or the means to produce nuclear weapons...that would be the end of Pakistan. It would be a diplomatic,economic,proxy and even conventional war against Pakistan by big powers and dozens of other countries and factions involved. It would be chaos.

You can't fathom the fact that France can keep Turkish aggressive policies in check and you imagine things. Come on,man.

I think its u who is delusional. Turkey even taking few islands from Greece doznt damage france. As i said china will not aid Turkey but china will take advantage of any opportunity that arises. U think china is happy to see a midget france sending warships through Taiwan strait in a FONOP? U think china doea not have plans in place? Its not abt war, its abt deterring the opponent. Once china gets involved in Mediterranean, france wont be able to do much.
In case of war china may not come to rescue Turkey but so wont france come to rescue greece. There will be covert support but u have to fight urself and looking at things, i doubt if greece can do anything.
No country gets nukes by announcing it and showing off. Usually the warheads are ready and loaded when the world knows. No one can dare attack a nuclear country like that, why is it that u cant comprehend the MAD doctrine? If it was that easy, india and israel would have done it to Pakistan. Ur only right abt the last part, it will be chaos, so is chaos good for the rich n developed Europeans?? Conventional or any attack on a nuclear capable country will bring destruction and that is why no one attacks a nuclear capable country.

 

[MisterSyed]

This Delusional Greek, Mate save your economy, before Turkey starts doing some sh1t and you end up bankrupted

 

[Foinikas]

I think its u who is delusional. Turkey even taking few islands from Greece doznt damage france.

It will damage France's interests:
1.Greece and Cyprus want to exploit their EEZ for oil and gas and French companies are among the ones to take a share of the profits.
2.Greece is buying French weapons and equipment and is thus a good "client".
3.France is one of the few countries in the EU that have been trying to have a coordinated european policy and a common defence for the European member countries.

As i said china will not aid Turkey but china will take advantage of any opportunity that arises. U think china is happy to see a midget france sending warships through Taiwan strait in a FONOP? U think china doea not have plans in place? Its not abt war, its abt deterring the opponent. Once china gets involved in Mediterranean, france wont be able to do much.

But France right now is not a threat to China. It's not a priority at all. And China has excellent relationships with Greece,that's important as well.

In case of war china may not come to rescue Turkey but so wont france come to rescue greece. There will be covert support but u have to fight urself and looking at things, i doubt if greece can do anything.

France and Greece just signed a mutual defence pact! It's an alliance now.But what makes you doubt that Greece can't do anything?
I love it when others underestimate us!

No country gets nukes by announcing it and showing off.

Now you're just imagining things again. You're whole post is based on a fictional scenario where Turkey develops or acquires nuclear weapons. And what if the yankees give us nuclear warheads too? And if what Godzilla and King Kong fight?
Does Turkey have nuclear weapons now or getting any,soon? No. That's it. If Turkey leaves NATO and if the West gets information that they are about to make or buy nukes,then it's game over for Turkey.

This Delusional Greek, Mate save your economy, before Turkey starts doing some sh1t and you end up bankrupted

Why am I delusional,bhai? Can you explain? Our economy is better and the Turkish economy is ready to crumble.

"Turkish inflation unexpectedly climbed to 19.25% last month, pushing the nation’s real interest rate below zero for the first time since October."

Turkey: Surprise rate cut sends lira to a new record low

Turkey’s central bank slashed interest rates by a full percentage point to 18 percent.

www.aljazeera.com

Of course they have a bigger economy than ours,but things aren't going well there either. And the way Erdy has expanded and sent forces here and there,how sustainable would a conflict be for Turkey,especially if it draws in countries like France or the US in the area?
Remember Biden's sanctions might be coming with the new S-400 batch...

 

[TNT]

It will damage France's interests:
1.Greece and Cyprus want to exploit their EEZ for oil and gas and French companies are among the ones to take a share of the profits.
2.Greece is buying French weapons and equipment and is thus a good "client".
3.France is one of the few countries in the EU that have been trying to have a coordinated european policy and a common defence for the European member countries.


But France right now is not a threat to China. It's not a priority at all. And China has excellent relationships with Greece,that's important as well.


France and Greece just signed a mutual defence pact! It's an alliance now.But what makes you doubt that Greece can't do anything?
I love it when others underestimate us!


Now you're just imagining things again. You're whole post is based on a fictional scenario where Turkey develops or acquires nuclear weapons. And what if the yankees give us nuclear warheads too? And if what Godzilla and King Kong fight?
Does Turkey have nuclear weapons now or getting any,soon? No. That's it. If Turkey leaves NATO and if the West gets information that they are about to make or buy nukes,then it's game over for Turkey.



Why am I delusional,bhai? Can you explain? Our economy is better and the Turkish economy is ready to crumble.

"Turkish inflation unexpectedly climbed to 19.25% last month, pushing the nation’s real interest rate below zero for the first time since October."

Turkey: Surprise rate cut sends lira to a new record low

Turkey’s central bank slashed interest rates by a full percentage point to 18 percent.

www.aljazeera.com

Of course they have a bigger economy than ours,but things aren't going well there either. And the way Erdy has expanded and sent forces here and there,how sustainable would a conflict be for Turkey,especially if it draws in countries like France or the US in the area?
Remember Biden's sanctions might be coming with the new S-400 batch...

So if u r that capable, why not go at it alone? Why holding hands of french? Lolz
China french rivalry is not that bitter but as i said, if france keeps sending ships to south china sea, expect chinese ships and aubs in the Mediterranean. China have good relations with greece but they see greece as a puppy of EU and west. China would select Turkey over greece any given day.
Turkey doeant require nukes but as i said, if they r kicked out of NATO, they will acquire. Its not as if the US and others will know in advance n stop them, they might get them before leaving NATO. The west will not attack Turkey even if they find out that Turkey is acquiring nukes. There is always a risk that nukes might be present and it can destroy whole of Europe. Western Europeans wont risk it. In the 80s india and israel planned to destroy Pakistan nuclear installations, but they didn't, why? There was a risk that nukes might already be produced and then the consequences for india n israel were too bad. You are delusional because u think its a joke to just smash Turkey or Pakistan having nukes or selling them. Even conventionally its not easy at all. You greeks been begging to put the burdwn on someone else but that wont happen.

 

[Foinikas]

So if u r that capable, why not go at it alone? Why holding hands of french? Lolz

I'm talking about a defensive war. We don't want to start a war with Turkey,but if they attack us,we will fight back. We're not such an easy target as they might present us in their media. Just like India presents Pakistan as a smaller country with smaller population and bad economy,that is in an arms race with India and asks for the help of China etc.

China french rivalry is not that bitter but as i said, if france keeps sending ships to south china sea, expect chinese ships and aubs in the Mediterranean.

Look I don't know what the French did in the South China Sea,but I don't think they will keep doing it anymore.Especially not after AUKUS at least...

China have good relations with greece but they see greece as a puppy of EU and west. China would select Turkey over greece any given day.

I don't know about that,don't be so sure. They have investments in both countries I'm sure and I think they would prefer a stability in the area so they can profit from both. Also I'm sure a lot of Chinese support Greece much more than Turkey,although they don't have a say in government decisions

Turkey doeant require nukes but as i said, if they r kicked out of NATO, they will acquire. Its not as if the US and others will know in advance n stop them, they might get them before leaving NATO. The west will not attack Turkey even if they find out that Turkey is acquiring nukes. There is always a risk that nukes might be present and it can destroy whole of Europe. Western Europeans wont risk it. In the 80s india and israel planned to destroy Pakistan nuclear installations, but they didn't, why? There was a risk that nukes might already be produced and then the consequences for india n israel were too bad.

And Israel destroyed Iraq's nuclear plant. You think American,Israeli and European intelligence will allow Erdogan to have nuclear weapons? They won't. And we're talking about a fictional scenario now,but then again,if the Americans and the Israelis knew the Turks were after nuclear weapons they would strike fast and hard.

You are delusional because u think its a joke to just smash Turkey or Pakistan having nukes or selling them. Even conventionally its not easy at all.

I think you are the delusional one thinking that Turkey is stronger than countries like France,Germany,the UK or like MMM-E would claim,even the US. What good would do Pakistan to give nukes to Turkey? It would only cause problems. Sanctions,economic and proxy war and even outright war.

You greeks been begging to put the burdwn on someone else but that wont happen.

If I remember correctly,Pakistani and Turkish members here often say Russia will help Turkey in a war and Pakistanis often use China as the big ally who will come down and help them or single-handedly destroy the Indians. Isn't that the same thing?

 

[BON PLAN]

And they haven't won a war since???

Algeria war was a military french win.
But a political loose, because the time was over for colonialism. That all.

WW1 : the main burden was on the french armies. US help was too late to be decisiv, and the whole combat was on the french and belgium soil, so the GB loose many soldiers but the destructions were very low.
In WW2 we collapsed (old management, old tactics, memory of WW1..., world peace attitude....) , and without GB first (in time), Russia and USA we would have remain under the german boot.

Greece is no match for Turkey. That is why they are tagging along France. But france is not reliable, france knows that it is a midget and if giants get involved, midgets will have to run and hide.
If france gets too involved in the region, be assured that Turkey will get the chinese or russians involved in east med. France will then have to cut its involvement in south china sea. Someone here pointed Turkish NATO membership in jeopardy. The moment Turkey leaves NATO or is removed, they will do nuclear tests. With all the Europe in its range, i doubt france or any other European country will dare mess with Turkey.

Turkish navy is low. Turkish air force is better (mainly bigger) than Greek one, and now with Rafale + Meteor things are changing a lot. Turkish ground army is huge, but unprepared and untrained as seen against ISIS.

So In case of a defense war I doubt Greek so easy to turn.

France not reliable ? For Pakistan point of view it's true. But it's the sole case. I hope you know why.

 

[TNT]

I'm talking about a defensive war. We don't want to start a war with Turkey,but if they attack us,we will fight back. We're not such an easy target as they might present us in their media. Just like India presents Pakistan as a smaller country with smaller population and bad economy,that is in an arms race with India and asks for the help of China etc.

The difference is that its greece occupying islands. Even a kid looking the the map would see that greece have occupied all the islands. You guys practically cut them off from the sea.

And Israel destroyed Iraq's nuclear plant. You think American,Israeli and European intelligence will allow Erdogan to have nuclear weapons? They won't. And we're talking about a fictional scenario now,but then again,if the Americans and the Israelis knew the Turks were after nuclear weapons they would strike fast and hard.
So now ur comparing iraq of 80s to current Turkey? We can bet that no one will strike even if Turkey acquires nukes. Hell its even now difficult to strike iranian nuclear facilities.

I think you are the delusional one thinking that Turkey is stronger than countries like France,Germany,the UK or like MMM-E would claim,even the US. What good would do Pakistan to give nukes to Turkey? It would only cause problems. Sanctions,economic and proxy war and even outright war.

I never claimed that and Pakistan if and when gets involved would have reasons.

If I remember correctly,Pakistani and Turkish members here often say Russia will help Turkey in a war and Pakistanis often use China as the big ally who will come down and help them or single-handedly destroy the Indians. Isn't that the same thing?

I dont know if u follow fanboys but i have never seen any sane Pakistani say that. Its stupid to rely on others for ur safety. Pakistan historically have fought its wars alone and at times have fought against odds. We are the last ppl to rely on others. We r not arabs or s korea who pay n keep western forces in the country for safety. Its the reason we keep such a large army and spend so much on defence, despite having a weak economy. We are not like a country that relies on EU and france for their defence. My point is that its not just greece that can drag in countries like france and egypt and UAE. Turkey also have options, like china, doesnt necessarily means in an all out war china will intervene.

You have a little comprehension problem as well. The scenario i present does not involve war as i see Europe cannot afford a big war and u keep taking it to a war scenario. Its typical with greeks and then u ppl rely on others. Its better u accept rights of others and practice coexistence.

 

[Foinikas]

The difference is that its greece occupying islands. Even a kid looking the the map would see that greece have occupied all the islands. You guys practically cut them off from the sea.

We are occupying OUR OWN LAND? Are you kidding me? We didn't cut them off from the sea,they have plenty of sea. Southern Turkey and the entire Black Sea.

You have a little comprehension problem as well. The scenario i present does not involve war as i see Europe cannot afford a big war and u keep taking it to a war scenario. Its typical with greeks and then u ppl rely on others.

No,I understood what you said well,but I'm just telling you I doubt China will do anything to help Turkey.you mentioned Turkey dragging Russia and China in for the East Med.Just like you doubt France will stay and fight if the Turks threaten their interests in the region. What you keep saying again and again is that "oh typical greeks begging for help". In which world has a country not allied itself with someone? Pakistan is allied with China,Israel with USA,even the mighty USSR had alliances with dozens of client or independent States.

Its better u accept rights of others and practice coexistence.

This is how you're fixed on your typical pro-Turkish and anti-Greek stance. Don't tell me like the other time,that you're neutral. Your posts are always anti-Greek and heavily pro-Turkish.
What rights of others have we not accepted? We're the ones who've been trying to co-exist and the Turks have been provoking again and again. When Erdogan makes public speeches with a map of "Mavi Vatan" behind him,does that say "peaceful coexistence"? When he goes on about "the borders of our heart are bigger than the ones on the map",is that a peaceful statement? When Turkish soldiers and police actively participate in prodding and helping the masses of refugees and immigrants to break the fences and get through the borders to Greece,is that good neighorhood? When there's violations of the FIR almost every single day,attempts to ram Greek coast guard and navy vessels with theirs and Erdogan turning Agia Sofia into a mosque,when he has just built a huge mosque on the other side,is that a sign of someone who wants to co-exist peacefully? And you blame us?

Man,so many of you Pakistanis should get out of that love for Turkey for a bit and see the other side as well. It's not bad that you like or love Turkey,no. It's bad that it can drag some of you down to a level of blind loyalty.

 

[vostok]

You are right.
Except in a classical war to defend our soil it would be politically insupportable to loose great amount of soldiers for a west democraty.
But if it is less sensible for Turkey to do so, I doubt Erdogan can stay as prime minister after 50000 loss.

I add that if you compare Turkish ground army and french or GB one, the quantity of soldiers is bigger in the turkish side, But what is the real level of them? how are they trained? To have nice weapon is one thing, to be skilled to use it another one.
The loss of some Leopard MBT destroyed by ISIS because they were badly managed is to be taken in account. As the purge in the high rank military people some few years ago (same problem in russia some time before 1941...)

Don't underestimate your enemy - it is the biggest mistake one can make. Besides massive Turkish army Erdogan has army of terrorists and we do not now how far his influence in jihadists circles reach - I suppose he can make some troubles inside France.
But I think in long term France in much better position because it make ammunition and armament on its own. Turkey will be very vulnerable and depend on foreign supplies. They will very soon feel the shortage of ammunitions.

 

[TNT]

We are occupying OUR OWN LAND? Are you kidding me? We didn't cut them off from the sea,they have plenty of sea. Southern Turkey and the entire Black Sea.


No,I understood what you said well,but I'm just telling you I doubt China will do anything to help Turkey.you mentioned Turkey dragging Russia and China in for the East Med.Just like you doubt France will stay and fight if the Turks threaten their interests in the region. What you keep saying again and again is that "oh typical greeks begging for help". In which world has a country not allied itself with someone? Pakistan is allied with China,Israel with USA,even the mighty USSR had alliances with dozens of client or independent States.


This is how you're fixed on your typical pro-Turkish and anti-Greek stance. Don't tell me like the other time,that you're neutral. Your posts are always anti-Greek and heavily pro-Turkish.
What rights of others have we not accepted? We're the ones who've been trying to co-exist and the Turks have been provoking again and again. When Erdogan makes public speeches with a map of "Mavi Vatan" behind him,does that say "peaceful coexistence"? When he goes on about "the borders of our heart are bigger than the ones on the map",is that a peaceful statement? When Turkish soldiers and police actively participate in prodding and helping the masses of refugees and immigrants to break the fences and get through the borders to Greece,is that good neighorhood? When there's violations of the FIR almost every single day,attempts to ram Greek coast guard and navy vessels with theirs and Erdogan turning Agia Sofia into a mosque,when he has just built a huge mosque on the other side,is that a sign of someone who wants to co-exist peacefully? And you blame us?

Man,so many of you Pakistanis should get out of that love for Turkey for a bit and see the other side as well. It's not bad that you like or love Turkey,no. It's bad that it can drag some of you down to a level of blind loyalty.

Was it Turkey that intervened in cyprus and disnt accept the turks? I am pro Turkish on some issues but i have a reason. Just look at the maps and tell me its fair to have the islands that are merely few kms from their coast?? Also greek disnt allow Turkish right on the sea west of cyprus. Riding on the back of EU, greece have always interfered with Turkey and i guess they have shown restraint.
You also cannot blame Turkey for the refugees, they disnt start the war. They cannot stop all the refugees and its not as if Greece is treating the refugees any better.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

But France's interests will be damaged if Turkey attacks Greece or Cyprus. Thinking that China will come to aid Turkey is just wishful thinking. China will not get involved in a potential world war to protect Turkey. North Korea? Maybe. Pakistan? Maybe. One of their Indochina client-States? Perhaps. But Turkey? Let's be realistic. Come on.


But Turks don't have nuclear weapons. They don't have nuclear power and USA and Western Europeans,Israel and probably Russia too,will make sure they don't get any nuclear weapons. If Pakistan made the mistake to provide Turkey with nuclear warheads or the means to produce nuclear weapons...that would be the end of Pakistan. It would be a diplomatic,economic,proxy and even conventional war against Pakistan by big powers and dozens of other countries and factions involved. It would be chaos.

You can't fathom the fact that France can keep Turkish aggressive policies in check and you imagine things. Come on,man.

And France will be signing its own death warrants by taking bout nuking anybody.
You think its childs play nuking countries in 2021?

France itself has no capability to take in Turkey. Its not some small african colony it can exploit.

Was it Turkey that intervened in cyprus and disnt accept the turks? I am pro Turkish on some issues but i have a reason. Just look at the maps and tell me its fair to have the islands that are merely few kms from their coast?? Also greek disnt allow Turkish right on the sea west of cyprus. Riding on the back of EU, greece have always interfered with Turkey and i guess they have shown restraint.
You also cannot blame Turkey for the refugees, they disnt start the war. They cannot stop all the refugees and its not as if Greece is treating the refugees any better.

Greeks are exploiting them for cheap labour. And those idiots are stuck there out of shame.
5 or so euros a day? A labourer in Pak makes more.