Grave of India-Pakistan war hero Brig Usman 'vandalised' in New Delhi

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks!
Yes, some of us are skeptical of the Ummah . In 1914 the Arabs decided that they were Arabs first and Muslims afterwards they sided with British Imperialism to topple the Ottoman Empire and deliver Jerusalem to the Christians and the Zionists on a platter. Our obsession with the Ummah led us to trust a section of our population who loved their language and identity far more than their "Islamic brethren" and joined the "kuffar" to deliver us the most treacherous blow ever.
Today the Khadimal Harmain Sharifain are teaming up with the kuffar and the saihoonis to bankrupt and disarm us
یہ مسلمان ہیں جنہیں دیکھ کے شر ما یں یہود-

The Indian Muslims are our very own. They are the only Muslim community in the world who really care for Pakistan and given a fearsome sacrifice in blood and tears for us. If Pakistan was a super power, or if the Ummah was united we would have given our blood to help our brethren. The blunt fact is we can't.
Our position today is like Turkey in from 1919-1923 when the Turks bankrupted, and defeated, faced an invasion from 6 major western powers, North African ( "Muslim") nations, and dozens of mini-ethnic paid "Language Nationalist " type groups. The Turks calied it Istiklal-e-Harbi. The Turks watched in helpless horror as minority Muslim populations in their once held provinces like Macedonia, Bulgaria, Greece and Romania were wholesale slaughtered by occupation armies. Even the majority Muslim territories were not spared and overrun by Armenia Georgia backed by the Soviet Union ( a dozen Kashmirs). None of the Arab Ummah countries, quickly signing oil contracts and squabbling over Shiekhdoms cared as Turkey starved and bled to death.
It was then that Turkey realized it couldn't save the Turkish minority population in the distant territories it once controlled (though it later helped the Cypriot Muslims) which is why they made a "Turkey first" slogan. If Turkey had to help its brethren it had to first look out for itself and survive. Turkey became insular and even recognized Israel. It was a punch in the nose to the Arabs to their once "enemy" recognize their sworn enemy. Turks turned the "Arabs first" equation to "Turks first".
To sum up it is not being suggested that we neglect Indian Muslims emotionally. All that is being suggested is that we cannot be held psychologically hostage to their plight. Our enemy knows how to hurt us emotionally and degrade our morale by inflicting death and violence on Indian Muslims, The Greeks and Bulgarians did exactly that to the Turks but the Turks survived to exact vengeance later.
Pakistan must survive.

I appreciate ur posts on this forum...they are often very insightful, knowledgable, and a treat to read. I like ur balanced approach and an open mind.

Growing up...I adhered strongly to the ummah concept...but no more. The world only respects money and power...nothing else matters. At a country/nation level...ur good intentions towards someone don't matter, it doesn't matter that u sweat for them or bleed for them, or have their back, fighting shoulder to shoulder...
...all of that goes down the drain the moment they don't need u.

Pakistan/Pakistanis should put Pakistan's interests first. They need to work hard to make Pakistan prosper...make it strong economically militarily and in all different manners.

And no it's not the Islamic concept of ummah I have given up on...but rather the true Muslims have ceased to exist(on a large scale)...no Muslims...no ummah...just interests. To make my point I'll quote a different line from the same "Jawab e Shikwa" that u quoted...
یوں تو سیّد بھی ہو، مرزا بھی ہو، افغان بھی ہو
تم سبھی کچھ ہو ، بتاؤ تو مسلمان بھی ہو

The concept of Ummah is dead...with the state that Muslims around the world are currently in.

 

[truthfollower]

what if a muslim from indian army die fighting for his country?
and what if he is fighting pakistan army?
who is on the right side?
is he a shaheed?

@PanzerKiel

 

[Baibars_1260]

I appreciate ur posts on this forum...they are often very insightful, knowledgable, and a treat to read. I like ur balanced approach and an open mind.

Growing up...I adhered strongly to the ummah concept...but no more. The world only respects money and power...nothing else matters. At a country/nation level...ur good intentions towards someone don't matter, it doesn't matter that u sweat for them or bleed for them, or have their back, fighting shoulder to shoulder...
...all of that goes down the drain the moment they don't need u.

Pakistan/Pakistanis should put Pakistan's interests first. They need to work hard to make Pakistan prosper...make it strong economically militarily and in all different manners.

And no it's not the Islamic concept of ummah I have given up on...but rather the true Muslims have ceased to exist(on a large scale)...no Muslims...no ummah...just interests. To make my point I'll quote a different line from the same "Jawab e Shikwa" that u quoted...
یوں تو سیّد بھی ہو، مرزا بھی ہو، افغان بھی ہو
تم سبھی کچھ ہو ، بتاؤ تو مسلمان بھی ہو

The concept of Ummah is dead...with the state that Muslims around the world are currently in.

بے شک ہم اول اور آخر مسلمان ہیں-
The concept of the "Ummah" is not dead. It lies dormant until resurrected from time to time. Even after the fitna wars and the Arab Ajam rivalry one single tiny nomadic tribe called the Kayi put aside their tribalism to build and found a Commonwealth of Muslim nations that lasted 600 years until Arab tribal nationalism destroyed it. We are currently living in the era when the Ummah is dormant, Like humble Kayi which was the seed through which the Muslim commonwealth flourished Pakistan today, battered and defiant is the seed to a future Commonwealth.
But how do we cope with tribal ethnic nationalism?
In fact our Creator has determined how we can balance our ethnic, and linguistic identities along with our Faith.
Surah Al Hujurat:,
Ayah 13.

"O mankind, surely We have created you from a male and a female, and made you tribes and families that you may know each other. Surely the noblest of you with Allah is the most dutiful of you. Surely Allah is Knowing, Aware."
There are other very practical guides on how differences between two sets of believers are to be resolved. We can discuss this at length..
I have a great poem for Pakistan which I will type now into my next post , Am slow on Urdu typing

 

[Skywalker]

Grave of India-Pakistan war hero Brig Usman 'vandalised' in New Delhi

'Miscreants' remain unidentified as Indian army claims "matter being looked into at the highest level"



Our Correspondent December 29, 2020

The damaged grave of India-Pakistan's 1947-48 war hero Brigadier Mohammad Usman. PHOTO: The Print
NEW DELHI:
According to the Indian online newspaper The Print, the grave of the India-Pakistan 1947-48 war hero Brigadier Mohammad Usman was vandalised by unidentified 'miscreants'.
The grave was said to be located in south Delhi’s Batla House Qabristan near Jamia Millia Islamia. Residents of the area claim the cemetery was not secure given that both entrance and exit gates were open 24×7, whereas one side of it was completely open to the Jamia Metro Station and main road.
Brigadier Usman was known as ‘Naushera ka Sher’ (the Lion of Naushera), The Print reported. He is credited with leading the famous 50 (Independent) Parachute Brigade that recaptured two strategic locations of the Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir - Jhangar and Naudera - in 1948.
The celebrated soldier's funeral was attended by then Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, President Dr Rajendra Prasad, Governor General C Rajagopalachari, and many other cabinet ministers, according to a report by Heritage Times.
Jamia University’s PRO Ahmad Azeem was quoted as telling The Print that the university was only responsible for maintaining the graveyard ano not the graves.
As per sources in the India army, the matter, which is a “protocol and emotional issue” for the force, was being looked into at the highest level.
Asked if there were plans to shift the remains to the Army Cantonment as suggested by some, sources said the immediate concern was the repair of the graveyard. Any other issue will be decided in time.

Grave of India-Pakistan war hero Brig Usman 'vandalised' in New Delhi | The Express Tribune

'Miscreants' remain unidentified as Indian army claims matter being looked into at the highest level

tribune.com.pk

یہی انجام ہوتا ہے جب بندہ دھوبی کا کتا بن جائے ۔
ننگ دین، ننگ ملت، ننگ وطن، ایمان و دین و ملت و وطن فروش

Must be enjoying his time there.

 

[Baibars_1260]

what if a muslim from indian army die fighting for his country?
and what if he is fighting pakistan army?
who is on the right side?
is he a shaheed?

@PanzerKiel

@PanzerKiel

All Muslims who fight on behalf of a Non-Muslim aggressor against other Muslims are not shaheed in battle. Thus Brigadier Usman is not a shaheed in the Islamic sense and for that matter we don't even know if he was a Muslim. In the secular sense of the word Shaheed as used by Indians he is a shaheed.
Looking back to History:

There were Arabs who began serving with the Mongols, who fought and died in battle against the Egyptian Mamelukes in 1260. There were Arabs serving with the British who died fighting Turks.
These Arabs or Muslims were not shaheed. The Turks and Egyptians who died were shaheed because they were fighting a defensive war for their existence and faith.

Would a Hindu Manipuri militant killed by the Indian Army be declared a Veergati?

 

[Baibars_1260]

جفا کی داستاں ہم کیا سناین گوش غافل کو
ہم ہی شمشیر دیتے ہیں ہمیشہ اپنے قاتل کو

گوارا برق و باراں ہو رہے جاری یہی طوفاں
کہ پہچا دیں گی یہ موجین مری کشتی بھی ساحل کو

کوی گمراہ کر سکتا نہیں ان جانثاروں کو
جو صدق دل سے مل کرچل پڑے ہوں اپنی منزل کو

ہزاروںُ بھیس میں انے لگے جیسے ہو ں سب دُشمن
مگر پہچان لیگیں ہم سہی مد مقابل کو

نہی احل صداقت کو کسی شمشیر کی حاجت
کہ منوانا نہی مقصد ہے کوی امر باطل کو

ہے خوف زندگی کیا شے ؟ اٹھاو ہم بہ تلواریں
تری شمشیر پر حق ہے مرے لشکر میں شامل کو

 

[bahadur]

Quoting Iqbal? He is our national poet.
Your national poet is Tagore who
wrote a poem praising the Prince of Wales which became your national anthem.
Why can't you dig up a Sanskrit sloka to pep yourself up?

hindu DNA was speaking .

 

[Vikki]

What exactly is that famous saying about "Dhobi ka kutta"??? Can't recall it

Just asking for my own knowledge

Most likely work of pro pakistani muslims ..

 

[masterchief_mirza]

hindu DNA was speaking .

Hinduism is a religion, not a genetic mutation.

Bear in mind that up to 75% (possibly more according to some studies) of your "hindu DNA" comes from either the Indus Valley or the Pontic Steppe, or both. "Hindu DNA" is more Iranian and central Asian than Indian.

 

[bahadur]

@PanzerKiel

All Muslims who fight on behalf of a Non-Muslim aggressor against other Muslims are not shaheed in battle. Thus Brigadier Usman is not a shaheed in the Islamic sense and for that matter we don't even know if he was a Muslim. In the secular sense of the word Shaheed as used by Indians he is a shaheed.
Looking back to History:

There were Arabs who began serving with the Mongols, who fought and died in battle against the Egyptian Mamelukes in 1260. There were Arabs serving with the British who died fighting Turks.
These Arabs or Muslims were not shaheed. The Turks and Egyptians who died were shaheed because they were fighting a defensive war for their existence and faith.

Would a Hindu Manipuri militant killed by the Indian Army be declared a Veergati?

so punjabi Muslims of british hindustan army failed to get virgati/ shahadat in second world war ?
brig .usman got virgati fighting with enemies , he was sent to swarg heaven jannat while for serving his matribhumi .

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I appreciate ur posts on this forum...they are often very insightful, knowledgable, and a treat to read. I like ur balanced approach and an open mind.

Growing up...I adhered strongly to the ummah concept...but no more. The world only respects money and power...nothing else matters. At a country/nation level...ur good intentions towards someone don't matter, it doesn't matter that u sweat for them or bleed for them, or have their back, fighting shoulder to shoulder...
...all of that goes down the drain the moment they don't need u.

Pakistan/Pakistanis should put Pakistan's interests first. They need to work hard to make Pakistan prosper...make it strong economically militarily and in all different manners.

And no it's not the Islamic concept of ummah I have given up on...but rather the true Muslims have ceased to exist(on a large scale)...no Muslims...no ummah...just interests. To make my point I'll quote a different line from the same "Jawab e Shikwa" that u quoted...
یوں تو سیّد بھی ہو، مرزا بھی ہو، افغان بھی ہو
تم سبھی کچھ ہو ، بتاؤ تو مسلمان بھی ہو

The concept of Ummah is dead...with the state that Muslims around the world are currently in.

The problem I have with yours and @Baibars_1260 posts on this matter is that there is a fundamental oversimplification at play.

Certainly, there is the "ummah" movement. Also certainly, a "counter-ummah" or "ummah-cautious" movement exists. However, to classify every Pakistani Muslim's relationship with Islamic India as being defined in one of these two ways is ignoring the possibility of more nuanced positions based on alternative interests.

Is it plausible that Pakistani Muslims hold a different connection to Indian Muslims, beyond the simplified "ummah" rhetoric? Whether we like it or not, we share language, history, ancestry, culture, cuisine, literature and dress with these people. Notwithstanding the assault on our shared religion by hindutva forces, that there is a simultaneous assault by the same enemy against everything from that list I just posted should irk even the least religious muslim belonging to either nation.

 

[Amaa'n]

There aren't enough guns in Pakistan that can save you and Indian Muslims put together should the Hindu truly weaponize and mobilize.

Wow!!! let me be blunt here and be as civilized as possible....but am just curious how did you even come up with that claim....

 

[Baibars_1260]

Hinduism is a religion, not a genetic

اس خر دماغ سے کئوں بحس کریں-
یہ بس ایک ہی زبان سمجھتے ہیں-

so punjabi Muslims of british hindustan army failed to get virgati/ shahadat in second world war ?
brig .usman got virgati and he will was sent to swarg while fighting enemies.

What did this Punjabi guy get?
Veergati or Shaheed?

Major General Shahbeg Singh
Killed Operation Blue Star , by the Indian Army

Shabeg Singh - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[bahadur]

اس خر دماغ سے کئوں بحس کریں-
یہ بس ایک ہی زبان سمجھتے ہیں-


What did this Punjabi guy get?
Veergati or Shaheed?
View attachment 701641
Major General Shahbeg Singh
Killed Operation Blue Star , by the Indian Army

Shabeg Singh - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

hum tum se usi jaban me bat karte hai jo tum samajhte ho abdu .

Most likely work of pro pakistani muslims ..

anti hindu vandals vandalised grave of param vir brig .usman .

 

[masterchief_mirza]

hum tum se usi jaban me bat karte hai jo tum samajhte ho abdu .

He was speaking to me in that zabaan. Do not assume you are the centre of all attention every time you howl at the stars.