What's new

Grave of India-Pakistan war hero Brig Usman 'vandalised' in New Delhi

Status
Not open for further replies.
I would like to see how 1.2 billion people can become United for 1 cause.

Never in history has such mass mobilisation for a cause has been witnessed.

Chances of 1.2 billion people uniting are 6 times as slim as 200 million uniting.

Of all the people, you should know who has been the beneficial owner of every war and famine to grace earth for the past 15 centuries.

Continuing being direct, eschewing the cryptic repartee.

Since 2009 (exact) there has been a continuous stream of weaponry into the country from Israel and Eastern Europe.

Large caches of weapons, high grade, paid in cash, into private hands.

You guys have zero idea of what mobilisation really is.

I repeat. Guys like xeuss and now absent/in hiding afrazul are not stupid.

Cheers, Doc
 
Continuing being direct, eschewing the cryptic repartee.

Since 2009 (exact) there has been a continuous stream of weaponry into the country from Israel and Eastern Europe.

Large caches of weapons, high grade, paid in cash, into private hands.

You guys have zero idea of what mobilisation really is.

I repeat. Guys like xeuss and now absent/in hiding afrazul are not stupid.

Cheers, Doc
you are once again assuming that these weapons will get used in sync and for a united cause
 
you are once again assuming that these weapons will get used in sync and for a united cause

They don't need to be.

The Muslim has been strategically maneuvered into local dominance pockets.

The Hindu controls roads.

Waterways.

Utilities.

Law enforcement.

Public records.

Take the Bombay Poona industrial belt.

Triangulate it with Gujarat.

Or Bangalore.

Or Hyderabad.

Map out Muslim pockets.

And see what separates them, and who. And how many.

Cheers, Doc
 
I find that "I told you so" deeply problematic. The Muslims in India today had no say on where they were born. They had no say in the creation of Pakistan.
xeuss,
Will mildly disagree with you on your statement that Indian Muslims had no say in the creation of Pakistan.
Remember that in the 1940s there was a religiously separate electoral system. The British had set that up to ensure proportional representation in the Constituent Assembly.
Indian Muslims could vote for either the "secular" Congress Muslim candidate or a Muslim League candidate. The proportion of Muslim candidates in the Parliament would be the same.
When the Muslim League proposed Partition the vast majority of Indian Muslims where they were in a minority voted for Partition while the population where Muslims were in majority the Congress ( or other parties such as Union Party) candidates did well.

Liaquat Ali Khan, Chaudhuri Khaleequzama , Shaheed Suharwardy, Hussain Imam, Qasam Razvi. were Muslim League stalwarts from UP, Bengal, Bihar and Hyderabad and they knew that Partition would mean they would be refugees in Pakistan and in poverty as they would be leaving all their property and assets behind. Qaid e Azam Jinnah was himself of Gujarati Maharashtra ( Bombay) origin and lost all his substantial assets in India while fighting for Pakistan.

So why did Indian Muslims support Pakistan in the 1940s.
There are several precedents in the history of Muslims globally. The Oghuz Turks chose to migrate out of Central Asia knowing that they were depleting the strength of the urban Muslim centers like Samarkand and Bukhara and consigning the population there to a living hell under the Mongols. Likewise the Andalusian Spaniards left for Morocco hoping to secure Morocco as a haven.

Some must be sacrificed for a long term perspective. The Hindu juggernaut would have dealt with Islam in the entire subcontinent just as it dealt with Buddhism years earlier displacing it as a state religion under Ashoka reducing it into a minority sect. A nuclear armed Pakistan offers Hindutva a choice:
Allow Islam to remain in the sub continent or the only significant Hindu majority country vanishes along with Islam. There are 51 other Muslim majority countries.

Let us also understand that Jinnah's concept of Pakistan was a safe space for South Asian Muslims to live, free from the ills of Hindu majoritarianism. It was never intended to be limited by the boundaries that we see today.

Agree, ...it was also intended to be the homeland of those Hindus and other minorities already living here with full citizens rights.
Population displacement had never been on the Muslim League agenda
It was the rogue runaway East Bengali unit of the Muslim League that kicked off the cycle of holocausts with the Noakhali massacres in 1946. This was deliberate communal cleansing for which the Indian Muslims paid a fearsome price. The East Bengali Muslim sub-nationalism would result in the secession and Civil War that led to Bangladesh today. Ironically even the most pro-Indian politicians in Bangladesh have never apologized for the wholesale slaughter of Noakhali and many other pogroms. They pin the blame on Pakistan (with the famous Bengali saying "Jeto Dosh Nandu Ghosh").


Therefore, it would be unfair to criticize those who just happened to end up on the wrong side of Radcliffe's line.

Agree...but Indian Muslims shouldn't just shut up..They should present the current Pakistani What's App generation with the facts and know who their real sympathizers are. A large number of Indian Muslim refugees were massacred by their "Islamic brethren " in Bangladesh just because they spoke a different language.

In a similar vein, today many Pakistanis live a comfortable and financially better life in the US/UK than their brethren in Pakistan. Wouldn't it be considered poor manners to criticize and put down those who did not or could not migrate to greener pastures in the west? So why does such behavior elicit glee when it comes to Indian Muslims?
Do Pakistanis need Indian Muslims to suffer to validate the thesis of Jinnah? By that same extension, do we need others to suffer to justify the choices we made?


No. Pakistanis do not need the sufferings of Indian Muslims trapped in vicious historical process to be a cause for satisfaction. Pakistanis should leave Indian Muslims to their fate with no comments on their plight. The historical links are gone. Pakistan is not the Pakistan of 1947 and it is the Pakistan that has emerged after 1971. We were reminded that linguistic and cultural identities matter. Our civil war with the eastern wing demonstrated that. Pakistan today is firmly on the path to its own identity.


We don't know what the future holds for Indian Muslims, but we Pakistanis will preserve for you remnants of your once glorious culture in your language, poetry, music and cuisine long after you gone into the history books forever.
Your obituary has already been written in the famous poem by Devi Prasad Mishra " Woh Musalman the ..."

 
Last edited:
I disagree with you. We are significantly hampered by this fact alone (risk of injury to civilians on the other side) because we regard them as our own brothers and sisters. We calculate every provocation and every retaliation carefully. The Indians do not because they do not regard our civilians and possibly even the Kashmiris on their side as their brethren. I can say this with some certainty and I'm sure others who know much more than me would clarify further if asked @PanzerKiel
 
They don't need to be.

The Muslim has been strategically maneuvered into local dominance pockets.

The Hindu controls roads.

Waterways.

Utilities.

Law enforcement.

Public records.

Take the Bombay Poona industrial belt.

Triangulate it with Gujarat.

Or Bangalore.

Or Hyderabad.

Map out Muslim pockets.

And see what separates them, and who. And how many.

Cheers, Doc



@waz @Foxtrot Alpha @The Eagle @krash @WebMaster @Irfan Baloch


This guy is explaining the rational and even advocating the genocide of indian Muslims. Read his previous posts too.
 
xeuss,
Will mildly disagree with you on your statement that Indian Muslims had no say in the creation of Pakistan.

Please read my comment again. I said Indian Muslims of "today"...meaning this current generation.
 
How can someone vandalize one resting place ...inhumane act
 

By the Hindu obviously.

No one else wields any real power in India to control what I enumerated above at a continental scale.

This genie is not going back into the bottle.

Cheers, Doc
 
Please read my comment again. I said Indian Muslims of "today"...meaning this current generation.
👍Absolutely correct! 👍👍👍 Apologies. I missed that.
The two generations of Indian Muslims born in India after Partition had no say in the creation of Pakistan. They are full Indian citizens with all the rights due to them. They owe no "proof of loyalty" to India and have no so-called "Islamic obligation " to fight and die for Pakistan.
Pakistan must let the Indian Muslims be to their fate.
@xeuss,
Could we request the moderators to lock and delete any threads on Indian Muslims?
@xeuss
Also read the rest of my post and comment. I believe I made a balanced argument, but will accept your final comment.
 
tribune Pk presented it as near jamia milia islamia?
Boys it is in Jamia Campus.
Nevertheless, whether the miscreants are jamia students or not, they will be caught.
 
👍Absolutely correct! 👍👍👍 Apologies. I missed that.
The two generations of Indian Muslims born in India after Partition had no say in the creation of Pakistan. They are full Indian citizens with all the rights due to them. They owe no "proof of loyalty" to India and have no so-called "Islamic obligation " to fight and die for Pakistan.
Pakistan must let the Indian Muslims be to their fate.
@xeuss,
Could we request the moderators to lock and delete any threads on Indian Muslims?

I disagree with you on both points. The only other people who understand and can relate to the condition of Indian Muslims, are Pakistanis. My experience with Pakistanis in the west has been very good. It really comes as a surprise to me to see a small minority on PDF that displays such antagonistic feelings.

The condition of Muslims in India has gone so bad in the last 6 years, that the chance for self correction no longer exists. It is imperative that the international community take action, though I don't expect them to do anything as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom